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Do you carry your 1911 in "condition 0?"

para_org

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Anyways this has all been covered now in this thread. (Probably twice over ?)
 

Ole Man Dan

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SpringerXDacp wrote:
If I decide to carry my 1911 I start out in condition 1.  However, after getting in and out of my vehicle, moving around, bending over, etc. the manual safety usually gets moved to the off position.  I'm not concerned at all about this due to the additional safety features, such as, the grip safety and trigger.  Of course, the best safety feature is the one between your ears.

With the manual safety off two things must happen in order for the 1911 to go BANG.  1) is that the grip safety must be depressed and, 2) the trigger must be depressed as well.  If you are able to depress the trigger without disengaging the grip safety then you should not be carrying the gun until the problem has been resolved.

I fail to understand the differences with carrying a 1911 in condition 0 and carrying my Glock with one in the pipe.
I had a Colt that the Ambi-Safety kept getting brushed off.
(Left handed, the safety brushed off against the holster)
I had a gunsmith install a smaller ambi-safety and fix it to be a little harder to push on and off.
It's not much harder to move the safety than it was when it was un-safe. I carry condition 1 and feel uncomfortable in condition 0 unless the gun is pointed at a target...
 

Grapeshot

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Necro-thread!

Not sure why anybody would carry with the hammer down on a 1911, but not going to revisit that - suggest reading the preceding thread.

Yata hey
 

andjusticeforall

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let's remember that there are more than a few 1911 type weapons, I carry an Astra A-70, and there is no grip safety, condition 1 is my preferred method of carry, practice is your path to safety and speedy response...
 

vmaxanarchist

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I believe condition 1 is the best balance between safety and speed of firing for a 1911 pistol for civilian self defense.

Condition 0 is too unsafe. The only thing holding the hammer back is the sear. All it takes is enough force applied to the hammer and it can fall.

Condition 2 was common for military carry. I once had a former Navy SEAL Corpsman examine my 1911. He did not recall having a thumb safety on his armourers special pistol. He always carried in condition 2. However in the field there is always a safe place to point your gun while loading it. In the civilian worldyou are likely to be loading your pistol in your house where a ND can be tragic or at least embarrassing and costly.

For my use condition 2 is not good for carrying while motorcycle riding. With a true 1911 it's possible that a hard enough hit to the hammer can propel the firring pin into the primer. I already have enough problems if I go down on the highway without having a AD added to it.

Condition 3 is very safe, but too slow if you do not know when a threat is going to present it self. I am not sure but, I believe it was common for the military to require condition 3 carry while not in a theater of action.

Because of my concerns of carrying while riding,my carry pistol is not a true 1911. I have a ParaOrdinance LDA. I carry it in a condition akin to somewhere between condition 1 and 2. Round in chamber,hammer spring cocked but hammer down, firing pin blocked until trigger is pulled, and thumb safety on. Firing is just like a condition 1 1911 with a longer trigger pull. I even modified it to be safer because I found that the factory thumb safety tended to come off while carrying. So, I replaced it with a low profile military style ambi-safety.
 

ABNinfantryman

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para_org wrote:
P.S.... I am not exactly sure why Glock is able to confuse so many people abut the nature of their lockworks, but they have even managed to convince people that they have THREE safety systems. I am certainly dumbfounded by this success in marketing without proper evidence of there really being any such stuff inside the pistol.
Their three safety system is explained on their site: http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htmGo to "Glock Advantage" on the left. The first is the trigger safety which doesn't allow lateral depression of the trigger. Thesecond safety is a firing pin block when the trigger is released it automatically blocks the firing pin. Thethird is the drop safety. One, two, three, yup that's three, and there's evidence of such, so pardon my rudeness, WTF are you talking about?

I've never had an issue with my glock, I've never seen a glock discharge from being bumped, run over, or otherwise abused. I have seen NDs from people not keeping trigger finger awareness, but that's not the fault of the gun, that's the fault of the shooter. This is the same BS argument that AR guys make against 1lb trigger pulls on assault weapons saying it's too light and risks NDs. It's onlya risk if the shooter is not well trained.

As to the topic, I would never carry a 1911 with the hammer back for two reasons. One, people know what it means when you cock the hammer back on a 1911 and is similar to showing your intent as charging your rifle or racking your pumpand could dissolve a situation without having to fire. Two, if needed it takes me the same amount of time to draw as it does to cock the hammer at the same time.
 

Grapeshot

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ABNinfantryman wrote:
para_org wrote:
P.S.... I am not exactly sure why Glock is able to confuse so many people abut the nature of their lockworks, but they have even managed to convince people that they have THREE safety systems. I am certainly dumbfounded by this success in marketing without proper evidence of there really being any such stuff inside the pistol.
Their three safety system is explained on their site: http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htmGo to "Glock Advantage" on the left. The first is the trigger safety which doesn't allow lateral depression of the trigger. Thesecond safety is a firing pin block when the trigger is released it automatically blocks the firing pin. Thethird is the drop safety. One, two, three, yup that's three, and there's evidence of such, so pardon my rudeness, WTF are you talking about?

I've never had an issue with my glock, I've never seen a glock discharge from being bumped, run over, or otherwise abused. I have seen NDs from people not keeping trigger finger awareness, but that's not the fault of the gun, that's the fault of the shooter. This is the same BS argument that AR guys make against 1lb trigger pulls on assault weapons saying it's too light and risks NDs. It's onlya risk if the shooter is not well trained.

As to the topic, I would never carry a 1911 with the hammer back for two reasons. One, people know what it means when you cock the hammer back on a 1911 and is similar to showing your intent as charging your rifle or racking your pumpand could dissolve a situation without having to fire. Two, if needed it takes me the same amount of time to draw as it does to cock the hammer at the same time.
You defend the Glock based on design mechanics and then offer tired emotional reasons opposing the 1911 being carried as designed.

Phrases like "people know what it means" and "showing your intent" is disingenuous at best in this application.

The corollary to charging your rifle or racking your pump is actively racking a 1911 NOT carrying one passively in a holster!

Cocking the hammer neither takes the same time nor the same amount of coordination. More pointedly, I consider it very bad advice to carry any single action gun with the hammer down on a live round regardless of mechanical safeties - ymmv but not mine.

If you have neither the confidence in a certain gun nor your ability to safely handle it, then by all means carry something else.

Candidly, your words do you a disservice, sir. They are the same disinformation more commonly attributed to the "other side."

Yata hey
 

windage

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...finding your 1911 safety off.....I was having this same problem on my PT1911 with the big ambi paddles (on both sides)...problem went away when I removed the "wrong" side safety paddle (the one of the right side for the lefty/ weakside thumb). Now I can carry the way God intended, cond 1...cocked, locked and loaded and never find the safety clicked off unintentionally.
 

marshaul

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windage wrote:
...finding your 1911 safety off.....I was having this same problem on my PT1911 with the big ambi paddles (on both sides)...problem went away when I removed the "wrong" side safety paddle (the one of the right side for the lefty/ weakside thumb).  Now I can carry the way God intended, cond 1...cocked, locked and loaded and never find the safety clicked off unintentionally.
+1

I hate ambi thumb safeties for this reason. I carried my RIA Tactical this way for about two days, I couldn't WAIT to order an Ed Brown non-ambi thumb safety.

It's better to practice manipulating the one-handed safety with your off-hand, IMO (it's not THAT hard).

Damn ambi safeties always get knocked off by obstacles encountered thanks to your gun hanging off your belt. At least, that's how it happens for me.
 

windage

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Damn ambi safeties always get knocked off by obstacles encountered thanks to your gun hanging off your belt. At least, that's how it happens for me.
same here...it was a mystery to me which side was knocking it off, till I simply took off the grip plate, pulled out the right paddle and put the grip plate back on. Before, finding safety off happened every other day...it has been 2 months now since the "ambi-ectomy" and no issues. So, for me at least, it was the paddle on the outside catching stuff. Probably the same stuff that cuts a little hole in all my shirts when I hit something with my gun. Have a regular thumb safety coming to provide perm cure.
 

Grapeshot

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windage wrote:
Damn ambi safeties always get knocked off by obstacles encountered thanks to your gun hanging off your belt. At least, that's how it happens for me.
same here...it was a mystery to me which side was knocking it off, till I simply took off the grip plate, pulled out the right paddle and put the grip plate back on. Before, finding safety off happened every other day...it has been 2 months now since the "ambi-ectomy" and no issues. So, for me at least, it was the paddle on the outside catching stuff. Probably the same stuff that cuts a little hole in all my shirts when I hit something with my gun. Have a regular thumb safety coming to provide perm cure.
A better more positive detent will do the same thing w/o sacrificing any loss of functionality.

None of mine swipe off ever.

Yata hey
 

elixin77

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How does one take the right side safety off the PT1911? I have this gun as well, and haven't thought about something grabbing the weak side safety and remove the safety. I take I would have to take it to a gunsmith?
 

windage

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Real easy....just remove that side's grip panel (which detains that side of the split shaft safety) and pull it out. Replace grip panel and re-holster. Some would claim that to run gun with only half the shaft is not correct....but once you witness how the shaft fits in and how little stress is on it, you can see that it's OK and is not going anywhere until you get a real (full shaft) thumb safety for it.

Or you could do the suggestion of the last guy and buy a heavier spring to put in (or pay to have put in).

Either cure, I recommend wiping some anti-seize on the threads of the grip panel machine screws, as they are prone to freeze in from sweat/ moisture that a daily weapon is expose to. If they seize, they take out the staked-in retainers with them...
 

ABNinfantryman

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Grapeshot wrote:
Phrases like "people know what it means" and "showing your intent" is disingenuous at best in this application.

The corollary to charging your rifle or racking your pump is actively racking a 1911 NOT carrying one passively in a holster!
I understand that, sorry I should've been more indepth. When you draw the 1911 and pull the hammer back allowing the person you're taking aim at to see that you're doing so, you're getting the same effect. I did not mean that it was the equivelant while carried in a holster.
Cocking the hammer neither takes the same time nor the same amount of coordination. More pointedly, I consider it very bad advice to carry any single action gun with the hammer down on a live round regardless of mechanical safeties - ymmv but not mine.
So you would carry a single action revolver with the hammer back?
If you have neither the confidence in a certain gun nor your ability to safely handle it, then by all means carry something else.
That's why I carry a Glock. Honestly I was just answering the fallacy that Glock doesn't actually have three safeties and provides no evidence of their safeties, and threw the last bit in to stay on topic.I like 1911s and have an old Colt GI model, but do not feel comfortable with carrying it. Besides, round caps too small. :lol:
Candidly, your words do you a disservice, sir. They are the same disinformation more commonly attributed to the "other side."
What misinformation? I wrote an opinion on how I feel the 1911 can safely be utilized which is what the OP asked for.
 

Grapeshot

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ABNinfantryman wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
Phrases like "people know what it means" and "showing your intent" is disingenuous at best in this application.

The corollary to charging your rifle or racking your pump is actively racking a 1911 NOT carrying one passively in a holster!
I understand that, sorry I should've been more indepth. When you draw the 1911 and pull the hammer back allowing the person you're taking aim at to see that you're doing so, you're getting the same effect. I did not mean that it was the equivelant while carried in a holster.

Still think it bad advice/comparison for the street.
Cocking the hammer neither takes the same time nor the same amount of coordination. More pointedly, I consider it very bad advice to carry any single action gun with the hammer down on a live round regardless of mechanical safeties - ymmv but not mine.
So you would carry a single action revolver with the hammer back?

New style with safety bar and firing pin yes - old style would be strictly 5 beans in a barrel - hammer on empty.
If you have neither the confidence in a certain gun nor your ability to safely handle it, then by all means carry something else.
That's why I carry a Glock. Honestly I was just answering the fallacy that Glock doesn't actually have three safeties and provides no evidence of their safeties, and threw the last bit in to stay on topic.I like 1911s and have an old Colt GI model, but do not feel comfortable with carrying it. Besides, round caps too small. :lol:

When you get back, I may offer you a trade for a piece of plastic. :D
Candidly, your words do you a disservice, sir. They are the same disinformation more commonly attributed to the "other side."
What misinformation? I wrote an opinion on how I feel the 1911 can safely be utilized which is what the OP asked for.

Quote: "I would never carry a 1911 with the hammer back for the following reasons" - doesn't read much like an opinion, IMO :):p
Really don't care what your buds say, I think you're alright.:D

Thanks again.

Yata hey
 

thumper

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Single action pistols are never safe with a round chambered. You can do as you wish, but you risk negligent discharge. I prefer single action steelframe pistols. The Israelis train for condition 3. When it's time to shoot, it's draw, rack, blammo. If you train that way, you will be fine. My other carry method is revolver with the top chamber empty. Speed loaders always with6 rds.
 

Superlite27

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Why anyone would choose to carry a 1911 pistol in condition two, then choose to preach how they are "safer" than condition one beats the heck outta me.

Just a few questions:

1) After you chamber a round, how is putting your thumb on a tiny little part of the hammer, then pulling the trigger to effectively (although slowly) drop the hammer onto a live round "safer"? You must have the highly esteemed and underappreciated "safety" thumb issued to you. The thumb I was issued at birth is the normal human one that is prone to error.

2) How, exactly, is carrying a gun with a live round in the chamber with a firing pin behind it and a hammer resting directly on the very thing needed to poke the primer "safer"? You must be psychic to know that nothing will ever, under any circumstances, come into contact with the hammer. One little tap. That's all it takes. One....little....tap. But this is somehow "safer".

3) In the hypothetical situation that you need to unholster your firearm.......don't you need to use your "safety thumb" to cock it? (BTW: Wan't it cocked before? Oh yeah....you used your "safety thumb" to de-cock it before needing to re-cock it. Seems like rework to me.) Don't you feel a little apprehensive about using your thumb to cock a weapon? Where do you point it while you use your super "safety thumb" to do so?

4) Are you cocking it while pointing it at the "bad guy"? You do know you are pointing a loaded weapon at a human being, right? Are you absolutley positive the hammer caught the sear before sliding your thumb off it? Really? Are you sure? Because if your super duper "safety thumb" doesn't know for absolute certain that the hammer you are playing with, hovering over a live round, while pointed at a human being, has definately and for certain caught the sear, it might be too bad for Mr. BadGuy. Hope Mr. Badguy doesn't turn out to be your neighbor looking for his dog Fluffy behind your trash cans.

5) Or, do you point your gun somewhere else while using your nifty "safety thumb" to cock it? Where, exactly is this predetermined safe direction? Is your super "safety thumb" have a built in direction finder? Does it know what direction is safe while in the White Castle parking lot?

6) Where do you point your pistol when playing with the hammer over a live round when out in public?

7) If condition two is so much safer......why is there even a thumb safety on a 1911? If you carry in condition two....you'd never use it.

I guess John Moses Browning wasn't as smart as you after all, huh? Why in the heck did he even put the durned thumb safety on the 1911?

Guess he never heard of the great and almighty "safety thumb".

Nope. Meybe it's just me, but I'll choose to leave the thing cocked after chambering a round. (That's how it needs to be if I'm gonna use it, right?) Then, I'll click this marvelous invention of John Browning to engage an ingenious little thing that blocks the trigger, locks the slide, and keeps the sear from rotating. (Oh, and don't forget the grip saftey.) Yup. No external parts that could bump the firing pin.

This way, I don't need to do any fancy work when faced with a stressful situation. I'm sure the adrenaline will be flowing and things often happen quickly when they go into slow motion. I feel confident knowing that my firearm is absolutely not going to go "BANG" until I move that nifty little switch down...."CLICK" with my thumb.

Pretty simple. No reason to think more into it than neccessary.
 

marshaul

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Grapeshot wrote:
windage wrote:
Damn ambi safeties always get knocked off by obstacles encountered thanks to your gun hanging off your belt. At least, that's how it happens for me.
same here...it was a mystery to me which side was knocking it off, till I simply took off the grip plate, pulled out the right paddle and put the grip plate back on.  Before, finding safety off happened every other day...it has been 2 months now since the "ambi-ectomy" and no issues.  So, for me at least, it was the paddle on the outside catching stuff.  Probably the same stuff that cuts a little hole in all my shirts when I hit something with my gun.  Have a regular thumb safety coming to provide perm cure.
A better more positive detent will do the same thing w/o sacrificing any loss of functionality.

None of mine swipe off ever.

          Yata hey
For many people, I'm sure. Mine had a decent detent, and I still had this problem.
 
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