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Do you carry your 1911 in "condition 0?"

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I never understand the lunacy of telling people they are on ignore. It is a juvenile tantrum just because they don't like the message. If you are going to ignore just ignore and shutup about it. It makes you look like a two year old.

Crybabies!
The irony is that post is similar behavior. As is this one.

Moving on.


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<o>
 

WalkingWolf

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The irony is that post is similar behavior. As is this one.

Moving on.


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<o>
The difference is if I ignore, I actually ignore and don't make a proclamation. Telling somebody how stupid that is, IMO is the proper thing to do, otherwise they may never figure it out. I think the same thing about "moving on" or claiming that a person is finished only to come back not once but several times. For once the adult thing to do would be move on.
 

WalkingWolf

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I know that hammer down on a loaded chamber is condition 2, but that is not what I was asking. Let me try it again with some edit:
I don't know anyone that carries in that fashion. Half cock is not a carry measure, it is a safety measure should the hammer get pulled back far enough to have energy to fire, but not enough to engage the sear. Or if the gun is cocked, and the hammer falls without the trigger pushing the sear it will stop on half cock. The military did not list it as a carry option.

I don't care how others carry but I would not carry at half cock. If the gun is dropped the sear can break allowing the gun to fire if the gun falls on the hammer. If the hammer is at rest the gun will not fire if dropped on the hammer as the FP is inertia and does not touch the FP. Dropping on the muzzle can fire a 1911 without a FP block, whether condition one or condition 2. If you look at a photo of a 1911 sear you will see it is not very thick, IMO would break before the half cock notch, but the results would be the same.
 

MAC702

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I know that hammer down on a loaded chamber is condition 2, but that is not what I was asking. Let me try it again with some edit:
I see your point, and if you had to just "do the math" for grits and shins, I'd call it 1.5.

It's slightly faster than hammer down because it's easier to bring it to full cock, especially with one hand. That said, at the risk of being insulted for having an opinion, don't carry that way. Half-cock is not designed to be used on purpose. It's an old safety feature that is superfluous on most models these days. Most models now have firing pin blocks or titanium firing pins, which have less mass and provide the same safety.
 
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WalkingWolf

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I see your point, and if you had to just "do the math" for grits and shins, I'd call it 1.5.

It's slightly faster than hammer down because it's easier to bring it to full cock, especially with one hand. That said, at the risk of being insulted for having an opinion, don't carry that way. Half-cock is not designed to be used on purpose. It's an old safety feature that is superfluous on most models these days.
I agree with you, I don't think it should be carried that way. Not only can the gun fire it is possible to damage it. And on the new guns with a FP block it is not needed. The old ones like mine, it still performs a function.
 

teddyearp

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Pinetop, AZ
Woah! I got MAC and Wolf to agree on something for once in this thread; that must be a record, lol!

Thanks MAC, I kind of figured that half-cock would be about condition 1.5. The only reason I investigated it and/or would consider it is because what I mentioned in my previous post. I.E. carrying in condition 1 with my holster and body shape usually places my pistol in condition 0.

For the record I have an AMT. As far as I can tell it is based upon the older version 1911, so as far as I know, it doesn't have any FP block.
 

MAC702

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...Thanks MAC, I kind of figured that half-cock would be about condition 1.5. The only reason I investigated it and/or would consider it is because what I mentioned in my previous post. I.E. carrying in condition 1 with my holster and body shape usually places my pistol in condition 0.

For the record I have an AMT. As far as I can tell it is based upon the older version 1911, so as far as I know, it doesn't have any FP block.
In that case, the half-cock position is mentioned on page 2 (and repeated at the bottom of page 4) of your manual, with a warning in all-capital red letters never to carry it that way: http://www.gunknowledge.com/Documents/AMT/AMT 1911 Owners Manual.pdf

That said, the manual pretty much invalidates itself with the warning on the top of page 3 that says not to carry it with a round in the chamber. That's taking CYA lawyer-speak too far for a sidearm, for crying out loud.

You are correct that the AMT guns use an old firing pin design without the blocking safety. You can upgrade to a titanium firing pin (and then thoroughly test for functioning) to have the same effect. Indeed, the lighter firing pin gives much of the same safety without ruining the trigger pull, like Colt did with the Series 80.
 
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teddyearp

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Thanks, MAC especially for the link to the manual. I bought mine at a gun show (EEEK!) so I didn't receive a manual. As far as this part of the manual:

That said, the manual pretty much invalidates itself with the warning on the top of page 3 that says not to carry it with a round in the chamber. That's taking CYA lawyer-speak too far for a sidearm, for crying out loud.
You gotta remember the source. This was made in the CSSR.

So I'll forget contition "1.5" and just carry condition 1 and when it may switch to condition 0, I'll just switch it back.
 
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The 1911A1 seems prone to operator-error discharges

I'm enjoying your discussion. I served 20 years in the Army, and in my first assignment was a Military Police lieutenant before I went to flight school. During those three years, two enlisted soldiers and one officer experienced accidental discharges in the company to which I was assigned. Vietnam had just ended, we were in a peacetime situation, and regulations required us to carry one magazine of five rounds with the hammer down on an empty chamber (the Army's archaic throwback of regulations to revolver days). I say, "he," because the female members of the command were issued S&W .38 Specials -- same as those issued to Army aircrews -- except with five rounds of ammunition and the hammer down on the empty chamber. If a Military Police soldier so much as drew a firearm on patrol, and especially if the soldier shot it, charges under the UCMJ would be forthcoming. Even if there were a justifiable reason for either action, the soldier could expect to spend the remaining time in the company in the motor pool -- and officers could expect to be assigned to staff positions in the Division. On the other hand, it was a violent, drug-infested Army of angry draftees waiting for discharges, so liberal and well trained use of the nightstick below the neckline was strongly encouraged. The philosophy was, "You don't give a 19-year-old kid a pistol and tell him to go shoot somebody -- because he WILL.":eek:

That said, the first accidental discharge was fortunately into the clearing barrel outside the arms room. The soldier had improperly cleared the pistol by putting it into battery before withdrawing the magazine. Failing to check the chamber, he pointed the weapon into the clearing barrel and pulled the trigger. Result: reduced one rank for inattention to procedures and assigned to the motor pool.

The second was a lieutenant. We were required to unload our weapons when called to the hospital, an occasional occurrence, most often to help subdue violent patients in the mental ward. When he returned to his patrol car with the slide pulled back as the hospital's regulations required, the lieutenant put his magazine into the pistol, activated the slide release, and lowered the hammer by pointing the weapon at his patrol car and pulling the trigger. BOOM! He told me later, he was so startled when he looked at the pistol and saw the hammer back, he nearly repeated the action. Of course the damage was amazing. The bullet struck just below the window, which shattered, and passed through the door and seat and lodged below the floorboard. (Years later, in civilian life, I talked with a private security guard who had exactly the same experience with his own M1911A1 on his employer's limousine.) Officers are either expelled from the service or relieved and reassigned rather than being busted in rank, so the lieutenant performed duties as a personnel officer for the Division until his honorable discharge a year or so later.

The third time was just unbelievable. Two previously well regarded MPs decided to have a quick-draw contest in the MP Station. These two morons faced off with what they thought were empty weapons. One wasn't, and as any police officer will tell you the shooter says at the site of an accidental shooting, "But the pistol wasn't loaded" was the first thing out of the MP's mouth. Fortunately, the shot soldier survived with a permanent loss of 90 percent mobility below his right hip, which the slug shattered. Both were busted to slick-sleeved privates and given general discharges from the Army.

I might add, at no time did any revolver-armed female MPs experience any accidental discharges.

I myself own a couple of M1911A1s. One was issued to the Navy in 1943. The other is a new one from Springfield Armories. I enjoy shooting them both, and I keep the newer one in condition one near my bed.

So check your chambers twice before you pull that trigger on and an empty pistol. Hundreds of people get shot every year with empty guns.
 

Grapeshot

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I'm enjoying your discussion. I served 20 years in the Army, and in my first assignment was a Military Police lieutenant before I went to flight school. During those three years, two enlisted soldiers and one officer experienced accidental discharges in the company to which I was assigned. Vietnam had just ended, we were in a peacetime situation, and regulations required us to carry one magazine of five rounds with the hammer down on an empty chamber (the Army's archaic throwback of regulations to revolver days). I say, "he," because the female members of the command were issued S&W .38 Specials -- same as those issued to Army aircrews -- except with five rounds of ammunition and the hammer down on the empty chamber. If a Military Police soldier so much as drew a firearm on patrol, and especially if the soldier shot it, charges under the UCMJ would be forthcoming. Even if there were a justifiable reason for either action, the soldier could expect to spend the remaining time in the company in the motor pool -- and officers could expect to be assigned to staff positions in the Division. On the other hand, it was a violent, drug-infested Army of angry draftees waiting for discharges, so liberal and well trained use of the nightstick below the neckline was strongly encouraged. The philosophy was, "You don't give a 19-year-old kid a pistol and tell him to go shoot somebody -- because he WILL.":eek:

That said, the first accidental discharge was fortunately into the clearing barrel outside the arms room. The soldier had improperly cleared the pistol by putting it into battery before withdrawing the magazine. Failing to check the chamber, he pointed the weapon into the clearing barrel and pulled the trigger. Result: reduced one rank for inattention to procedures and assigned to the motor pool.

The second was a lieutenant. We were required to unload our weapons when called to the hospital, an occasional occurrence, most often to help subdue violent patients in the mental ward. When he returned to his patrol car with the slide pulled back as the hospital's regulations required, the lieutenant put his magazine into the pistol, activated the slide release, and lowered the hammer by pointing the weapon at his patrol car and pulling the trigger. BOOM! He told me later, he was so startled when he looked at the pistol and saw the hammer back, he nearly repeated the action. Of course the damage was amazing. The bullet struck just below the window, which shattered, and passed through the door and seat and lodged below the floorboard. (Years later, in civilian life, I talked with a private security guard who had exactly the same experience with his own M1911A1 on his employer's limousine.) Officers are either expelled from the service or relieved and reassigned rather than being busted in rank, so the lieutenant performed duties as a personnel officer for the Division until his honorable discharge a year or so later.

The third time was just unbelievable. Two previously well regarded MPs decided to have a quick-draw contest in the MP Station. These two morons faced off with what they thought were empty weapons. One wasn't, and as any police officer will tell you the shooter says at the site of an accidental shooting, "But the pistol wasn't loaded" was the first thing out of the MP's mouth. Fortunately, the shot soldier survived with a permanent loss of 90 percent mobility below his right hip, which the slug shattered. Both were busted to slick-sleeved privates and given general discharges from the Army.

I might add, at no time did any revolver-armed female MPs experience any accidental discharges.

I myself own a couple of M1911A1s. One was issued to the Navy in 1943. The other is a new one from Springfield Armories. I enjoy shooting them both, and I keep the newer one in condition one near my bed.

So check your chambers twice before you pull that trigger on and an empty pistol. Hundreds of people get shot every year with empty guns.
Generally no such thing as an accidental discharge - they are all negligent.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,165
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
Generally no such thing as an accidental discharge - they are all negligent.
Yeppers. I was given my first 1911 in early 1969. It was a Remington Rand and it rattled when I shook it. It served me well for many years and kept me alive on several occasions. I carry a 1911 still, altho the one I am wearing now has a few improvements over my first one. I carry round in chamber, hammer back, safety on. So far, no NDs.
 
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