March on Washington 07-04-2013

[joanie]

Yep, great idea. And then they can get tear-gassed, pepper sprayed, shot with water cannons. frog marched to jail. Just like the OWS folk were. Of course *these* idiots plan on being armed with semi-automatic weapons with high-capacity mags (unlike the OWS folk) so the response to them *may* be ratcheted up a bit. I wonder how the "from my cold, dead fingers" crowd will react when a police officer tells them to put their weapons on the ground and get down on their knees, hands behind their head, so they can be cuffed? Especially when it will be a "lot" of policemen with weapons drawn. These folks are not the face of responsible gun owners that I want representing me. None of the responsible gun owners I know are willing to start a civil war because the black president wants most Americans to have health care He hasn't come for our guns. He is not a tyrant. Get a grip.

Obama is a tyrant and a dictator, his prolonged detention efforts and passing NDAA should be proof of that. Then fighting the supreeme court to reinact it when they repealed it should prove it more. Add to that his oath to the constitution, his saying he would never raise taxes on the middle class, and saying he would never come for the guns (not your handgun, not your rifles, not your shotguns) os some such thing. This site has three choices, they can endorse this march, condem it, or stay indiffrent. However in the name of freedom of speech, I think they should allow discussion of it from those for and against it. I speak however for OhioOpenCarry (another set of discussion boards) and I fully endorse this action, member of OhioOpenCarry are3 welcome to do the same, or bash the event.

Yes, theres a chance something could go horrablly wrong. They could easally be set up. I hope Adam is watching for that, has others watching for that, and can expose what and who set them up should that happen. I think what they are doing needs to be done, we need to see as a nation where we stand. Are we slaves to government officals who should be our public servants? That capital is ours just as much as it is theirs. Adam said and made clear that this would be a peacefull march. That if anything bad happends, any aggression, it will be started by police and government, not by them. I believe that, enough to fully endorse it. I would like to know on the 4th of July, where we stand as a nation by the people, and for the people.

 

[beebobby]

If these folks weren't moved to pull this kind of stunt during the previous administrations "reign", I fail to see what Pres. Obama has done to provoke this response now (other than that tyranical ACA and being guilty of "presiding while black)). NDAA was the brainchild of the previous administration. Pres. Obama didn't resist reinstating it because this Congress, historically, will resist anything the Pres. suggests, even if it is for the good of the country. If Pres. Obama was a dictator, we wouldn't be allowed to have any voice in the govt. As it is, what have we actually lost under him? Do you still have your guns? Can you still vote?

 

[Tucker6900]

Yep, great idea. And then they can get tear-gassed, pepper sprayed, shot with water cannons. frog marched to jail. Just like the OWS folk were. Of course *these* idiots plan on being armed with semi-automatic weapons with high-capacity mags (unlike the OWS folk) so the response to them *may* be ratcheted up a bit. I wonder how the "from my cold, dead fingers" crowd will react when a police officer tells them to put their weapons on the ground and get down on their knees, hands behind their head, so they can be cuffed? Especially when it will be a "lot" of policemen with weapons drawn. These folks are not the face of responsible gun owners that I want representing me. None of the responsible gun owners I know are willing to start a civil war because the black president wants most Americans to have health care He hasn't come for our guns. He is not a tyrant. Get a grip.

How have you come to the conclusion that he is anything other than a tryant? Ok, ok. Ill give you "tyrant in training". And you know, he's got a 4.0GPA so far.

This isnt about health care. This isnt about guns. Its about everything. Its about NDAA, DHS, Bengazi, The federal reserve, and the Constitution. Its about free speech, freedom to travel, freedom to live your life how YOU see fit.

Did you know, according to the US Army, Marine bulliten, just talking about this makes me a domestic terrorist? What about you? I would assume, only for conversation, that you are a christian? Really? According to the .gov, you are a potential domestic terrorist. Anyone who has a stong religious conviction, yep, you guessed it. Domestic Terrorist. The real kicker, "A person who believes in the Constitution and the Founding Fathers.....is considered a potential domestic terrorist."

They are doing their best to turn us, law abiding citizens, into enemies of the state. There is no other way to look at it. Take a look at what has transpired in the last two years alone.

1) Obama calls for a "domestic military force...with the same capabilities as the military...with the duty to make America safe..."
1A) DHS starts buying MRAP armored vehicles, 10,000 fully automatic rifles, and as much ammo as they can get their hands on.
2) Fast and Furious shipped thousands of guns to mexico. Eric Holder....untouched.
3) Bengazi: Obama refused to help. And according to recent updates, there are reports that the "protestors", aka Al Queda, aka US trained/funded/armed militants, were using weapons supplied to them by the US government.

Do I need to continue? Heres my tip to you. Open. Your. Eyes. Turn off main stream media.

I fully support this CONSTITUTIONAL EXERCISE!

 

[eye95]

Let me make that perfectly clear. The official position of OCDO has always been that we are focused on the open carry of properly holstered handguns in everyday life. We also advocate for the correction of unconstitutional laws (which DC's unquestionably is) through the courts and the ballot box.

Having said that, we are allowing this discussion because people want to discuss it amongst themselves. So long as no one crosses the line into suggesting that our members place their safety and legal well-being on the line, I am inclined to let the discussion continue.

You mean like:

...I fully support this CONSTITUTIONAL EXERCISE!

Right now, despite any stated position, it sure looks to me like OCDO is de facto supporting this march.

 

[beebobby]

Some dictator! He can't get an immigration bill through the Senate controlled by his own party, can't get gun legislation supported by 80+% of Americans passed, can't get his judicial nominees confirmed, can't get his budgets enacted. He hasn't cancelled elections, nor changed the constitution, so he won't be President after the next election. In January of 2017, someone else will become president. Not what happens in a dictatorship. That sounds like a Democracy to me. Least effective dictator ever. He's as bad at being a dictator/tyrant as he is at being a muslim.

 

[sharkey]

Emphasis added by me.

Let me make that perfectly clear. The official position of OCDO has always been that we are focused on the open carry of properly holstered handguns in everyday life. We also advocate for the correction of unconstitutional laws (which DC's unquestionably is) through the courts and the ballot box.

Having said that, we are allowing this discussion because people want to discuss it amongst themselves. So long as no one crosses the line into suggesting that our members place their safety and legal well-being on the line, I am inclined to let the discussion continue.

You mean like:

I fully support this CONSTITUTIONAL EXERCISE!

Right now, despite any stated position, it sure looks to me like OCDO is de facto supporting this march.

We were just discussing Brandenburg on another thread therefore you should fully understand the difference between supporting an action (tucker6900) and calling for action. By allowing discussion John is not supporting it. Tucker6900 is but he did not suggest anyone here participate (unless I missed it) and place their well being on the line. When we discuss the opposition's methods and bills are we supporting their actions?

This is akin to saying OCDO supports universal background checks because some of it's members did. OCDO may or may not have supported such law, I never saw an official statement on it.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0395_0444_ZO.html

the mere abstract teaching . . . of the moral propriety or even moral necessity for a resort to force and violence is not the same as preparing a group for violent action and steeling it to such action.

 

[sharkey]

If these folks weren't moved to pull this kind of stunt during the previous administrations "reign", I fail to see what Pres. Obama has done to provoke this response now (other than that tyranical ACA and being guilty of "presiding while black)). NDAA was the brainchild of the previous administration. Pres. Obama didn't resist reinstating it because this Congress, historically, will resist anything the Pres. suggests, even if it is for the good of the country. If Pres. Obama was a dictator, we wouldn't be allowed to have any voice in the govt. As it is, what have we actually lost under him? Do you still have your guns? Can you still vote?

It must be nice to be a minority. Apparently it absolves you of all responsibility. Your statement was racist. See what I did there?

We have not lost as much as he would wish, therefore you are correct that he is not a dictator.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Been said that freedom = guns = freedom......chicken or the egg, same thing?

Problem here is that when the focus/central theme moves away from guns, specifically OCd in holster, it moves out of the realm of OCDO.

Never have we said that OCDO was all things for freedom loving people. No matter how hungry you are, you can buy neither fillet mignon nor beef jerky here.

Yes fully agree if we are discussing it solely under the parameters of OCDO and its guidelines.

What I was addressing was the points you made about we are "winning" and the other points. Expanding the discussion as John has so graciously agreed to let stand.

You mean like:


Right now, despite any stated position, it sure looks to me like OCDO is de facto supporting this march.

Eye disagree with your reasoning on this your opinion often counters mine that in no way means your opinion or mine reflects the stance of OCDO, that is his stance and his stance alone, although others may have a similar stance.

 

[Thundar]

You mean like:



Right now, despite any stated position, it sure looks to me like OCDO is de facto supporting this march.

...different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope that it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen, if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve...

...For my own part I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty towards the majesty of heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings...

...Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands...

...The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the bridges of Washington! The war is inevitable—and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come!

Live Free or Die!
Thundar



Of course this was lifted from Patrick Henry's speech to the Virginia House of Burgess on March 23, 1775.

 

[eye95]

Radio Host to Lead Armed March on DC

It does not matter whether we believe that OCDO supports this action. If the owners do not specifically shut down ANY support from ANYONE on this site, make no mistake about it, when the shooting starts, we will be lumped in with the "militia" "instigators" of this "act of terror" "against the American people" and their "democratically-elected" government. The leftist media will have a field day, and average Americans will believe the worst of the marchers, and of US.

This march is a violent disaster waiting to happen.

OCDO not making a huge effort to distance itself from this march is a PR disaster waiting to happen.

This march is going to help the antis and the progressives rob us of even more freedom.


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<o>

 

[sharkey]

It does not matter whether we believe that OCDO supports this action. If the owners do not specifically shut down ANY support from ANYONE on this site, make no mistake about it, when the shooting starts, we will be lumped in with the "militia" "instigators" of this "act of terror" "against the American people" and their "democratically-elected" government. The leftist media will have a field day, and average Americans will believe the worst of the marchers, and of US.

This march is a violent disaster waiting to happen.

OCDO not making a huge effort to distance itself from this march is a PR disaster waiting to happen.

This march is going to help the antis and the progressives rob us of even more freedom.


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<o>

There is no reasoning with those who can't reason.

Those who would lump us all, with all of our diversities, into one group are prejudiced.

You can be as PC as you wish, it will not help PR with the audience you seek. They have already made up their minds about us. The ones who have not should be capable of understanding that we are individuals with our own opinions and curiosity about this event.

ETA: The above march is planned to be peaceful.

Here's a seditious thread related to a man who wanted to overthrow the U.S. government. Who around here would start such a thread title gather your armies?

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?76862-Gather-Your-Armies

[video=youtube;6iQ7ZDUutU4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iQ7ZDUutU4[/video]

 

[Tucker6900]

Some dictator! He can't get an immigration bill through the Senate controlled by his own party, can't get gun legislation supported by 80+% of Americans passed, can't get his judicial nominees confirmed, can't get his budgets enacted. He hasn't cancelled elections, nor changed the constitution, so he won't be President after the next election. In January of 2017, someone else will become president. Not what happens in a dictatorship. That sounds like a Democracy to me.

Thats the problem. This country is not set up to be a democracy. It is a Constitutional Republic. Meaning, what the people want, they get, as long as it is within the boundries set forth by the Constitution. It was written so that regardless of a mob rule, you, Eye95, and every other citizen is protected by the rights affirmed within. If the mass of people want a change, you must amend the Constitution. And guess what, not gonna happen.

I fully support this CONSTITUTIONAL EXERCISE!

 

[joanie]

Do you still have your guns? Can you still vote?

My guns has been taken in the past, and I voted for Gary Johnson. I don't think my vote counts for much if anything at all. Bush was no better, Clinton wasn't much better, Regan wasn't much better. They are all puppets to forgin banks, it's the only way they stood a chance to get into that white house. It wouldn't matter if Romney won, we would have the same. Gary Johnson couldn't get in the debates, and I'm not sure he was even on all the state's ballots. Many didn't even know they had a third choice. If they had, the global elete would have thrown up another road block. I can tell you, Gary Johnson would have been a far better choice than any president in history since JFK. In 2016, Jesse Ventura will be a far better choice than any president in history since George Wahsington. And like Washington, Ventura doesn't claim a party. He would be the only president in history, besides Washington who don't.

 

[Thundar]

It does not matter whether we believe that OCDO supports this action. If the owners do not specifically shut down ANY support from ANYONE on this site, make no mistake about it, when the shooting starts, we will be lumped in with the "militia" "instigators" of this "act of terror" "against the American people" and their "democratically-elected" government. The leftist media will have a field day, and average Americans will believe the worst of the marchers, and of US.

This march is a violent disaster waiting to happen.

OCDO not making a huge effort to distance itself from this march is a PR disaster waiting to happen.

This march is going to help the antis and the progressives rob us of even more freedom.


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<o>

This thread, like the freedom march started in the Commonwealth of Virginia. Almost all OCDO members from the Commonwealth ARE ALREADY members of the Commonwealth's militia. Why would you include such an honorable and necessary institution in with bad guys?

The march will not be violent unless some stoopid fed becomes violent.

P.S. If the event becomes violent, the least of our worries would be the reaction of the antis!

 

[Gil223]

Here's a thought...

Washington D.C. is a singular political subdivision - it is neither village, township, city, county or state. It is the one and only "Federal District". That status raises some unusual questions in my mind regadring the OP's topic:
1. As a Federal District, why are D.C. LEOs "city police" and not U.S. Marshals?
2. As a Federal District, are the ordinances of D.C. defacto federal laws?
3.Would violations of a D.C. ordinance then be elevated to the level of a federal crime? Federal law cannot be in violation of the Constitution, which guarantees the RKBA.
4. Possession of unregistered firearms in the District is a violation of local law (whatever the level)... possession of firearms by "prohibited persons" is a federal felony. Upon successful prosecution (theoretically speaking) would they who participate in such a march in D.C., and failed to satisfy the firearm registration requirement, be in jeopardy of forfeiting their right to own/possess firearms?
There are more questions, I'm sure, but I'm tired now, and lack the necessary focus to formulate those questions. It's a beginning. Pax...

 

[sharkey]

Washington D.C. is a singular political subdivision - it is neither village, township, city, county or state. It is the one and only "Federal District". That status raises some unusual questions in my mind regadring the OP's topic:
1. As a Federal District, why are D.C. LEOs "city police" and not U.S. Marshals?
2. As a Federal District, are the ordinances of D.C. defacto federal laws?
3.Would violations of a D.C. ordinance then be elevated to the level of a federal crime? Federal law cannot be in violation of the Constitution, which guarantees the RKBA.
4. Possession of unregistered firearms in the District is a violation of local law (whatever the level)... possession of firearms by "prohibited persons" is a federal felony. Upon successful prosecution (theoretically speaking) would they who participate in such a march in D.C., and failed to satisfy the firearm registration requirement, be in jeopardy of forfeiting their right to own/possess firearms?
There are more questions, I'm sure, but I'm tired now, and lack the necessary focus to formulate those questions. It's a beginning. Pax...

Still researching but here's what I've found so far.

The penalty for a first-time offender without a prior felony conviction is a maximum fine of $1000 and/or up to a year incarceration. The penalty for a subsequent offense or for an offender with a prior felony conviction in D.C. or any other jurisdiction is imprisonment of up to 10 years. D.C. Criminal Code 22-4514.

Penalties are doubled if you're in a gun free zone and I understand ammunition has to be registered to so that would be a separate charge.


http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/dccode/


This document lists a ton of possible add-on charges.

[url]http://www.occupyyourcongress.info/LEGAL_GUIDE_FOR_PROTESTERS_IN_DC_%282012_Edition%29.pdf
[/URL]

 

[Freedom First]

It does not matter whether we believe that OCDO supports this action. If the owners do not specifically shut down ANY support from ANYONE on this site, make no mistake about it, when the shooting starts, we will be lumped in with the "militia" "instigators" of this "act of terror" "against the American people" and their "democratically-elected" government. The leftist media will have a field day, and average Americans will believe the worst of the marchers, and of US.

This march is a violent disaster waiting to happen.

Hey now, Eye...

What's the matter with the militia? The militia comprises the first half of the Second Amendment after all... Must have been important to someone.

From what I am hearing, as a guy in one of your accursed "militia" units, the normal militiaman is prone to mistrust this sort of showy activity and I'm not seeing lots of guys packing up to head there yet. Actually it has us working on scenarios where we can help ensure the rule of law during civil disruptions in our local communities. This sort of event might instigate activities that would require a bit more than the uniformed LEOs can deal with.

The militia is, after all, a creature of law and order contrary to MSM depictions.

OCDO not making a huge effort to distance itself from this march is a PR disaster waiting to happen.

This march is going to help the antis and the progressives rob us of even more freedom.

OCDO is not Freedom. Freedom is not needing an OCDO. No offense to John or OCDO is intended for all the good it has done, but the finished product of true American Freedom will not require this sort of activity.

The only way we lose more freedom is if we consent to that loss. As in submitting to more illegal laws and unconstitutional dictates from above...

 

[eye95]

Hey now, Eye...

What's the matter with the militia? The militia comprises the first half of the Second Amendment after all... Must have been important to someone.

From what I am hearing, as a guy in one of your accursed "militia" units, the normal militiaman is prone to mistrust this sort of showy activity and I'm not seeing lots of guys packing up to head there yet. Actually it has us working on scenarios where we can help ensure the rule of law during civil disruptions in our local communities. This sort of event might instigate activities that would require a bit more than the uniformed LEOs can deal with.

The militia is, after all, a creature of law and order contrary to MSM depictions.




OCDO is not Freedom. Freedom is not needing an OCDO. No offense to John or OCDO is intended for all the good it has done, but the finished product of true American Freedom will not require this sort of activity.

The only way we lose more freedom is if we consent to that loss. As in submitting to more illegal laws and unconstitutional dictates from above...

Please reread what I wrote. I am not saying anything critical of militias. I consider myself a member of the militia who will defend the American People and the Constitution should that become necessary. I am pointing out how this march will be perceived by the media and the People at large. It will not help our cause. It will paint OCDO and us as part of a lunatic fringe.

Also, you have a major logic flaw in your post called "false choice." You imply that not supporting THIS march is consenting to the loss of freedom. I contend that one can work for Liberty, not consenting to any loss of the RKBA, and to maintain a strong, principled stand against this Stupidity on a Bridge!


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<o>

 

[BB62]

Come to think of it, promoting long gun carry is Off Topic here - rule #14.

So to is civil disobedience. We are law abiding. If we disagree with a law, we either defeat it in the courts or through the legislative process.

I see this thread as a discussion, not a promotion. The level of discussion is the most cerebral of those on the sites I visit.

 

[eye95]

I see this thread as a discussion, not a promotion. The level of discussion is the most cerebral of those on the sites I visit.

There have been several statements of unequivocal support for this march. There is zero doubt that this thread is being used not just to discuss the march, but to promote it.

There is also zero question that this thread discusses LGOC.

But the site owners have a right to allow their rules to be violated. They lose some credibility, but they have the right to use their property as they see fit.


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<o>