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March on Washington 07-04-2013

richarcm

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,182
Location
Richmond, VA
Loaded long guns........civil disobedience..........people being funneled across a bridge................police in armor waiting on the other side.........a shot rings out...............




One person, that is all it will take. One person to discharge a weapon, LEO or Citizen, it will not matter.

As it does during Lobby Day or any other day.
 

richarcm

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,182
Location
Richmond, VA
I only think its a bad idea if it can't work.
I agree 100% with what KB said above.

I doubt this will happen.

How do you determine what CAN work? Anything may or may not work. Many pro gun activists still believe that open carry in general can not and does not help the cause.

If we knew what WILL work we'd all be doing it.

It seems the primary course of action is wait for legislation to be written and defend ourselves from it. Then mark that up as a victory. Or voting in more backstabbing Republicans at the voters booth begging them to give us more rights.

It's an interesting position that we find ourselves in...
 

Marco

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
3,905
Location
Greene County
I don't think this is so much intrinsically a bad idea as it is bad timing/context. If the last round in Congress had gone 100% to the gun grabbers and bans were to be put in place, I would actually be up for this. It would be time, in that context, to do something more than write a 'sternly-worded letter', but that's not where we are right now. We "won" in Congress, and this is not how to move the ball forward. Indeed, this sort of action now might break the political coalition that prevented the bad legislation in the first place, snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory. We should be using the vaguely pro-rights political block that exists right now to start moving legislation, not making grandstanding overtures that don't even have anything but an abstract point.

This is not the right time or the right way to do things. If there were a credible threat, real laws about to be enforced that would criminalize a portion of gun owners or something to that effect, I would stand and be counted in an effort like this. But there is no exigent need for this, and anybody who puts their neck out for this isn't just risking themselves, they're risking all the current efforts toward meaningful change that have been in progress. And there are real efforts, Constitutional carry is spreading, and that in many ways is truly meaningful restoration of the Constitution as intended.

I do wonder as some already have if Kokesh isn't being played by somebody in the administration. This just has a feel so foolish as to be false flag. And there is no deeper purpose than to put on a show, no distinct or specific goal, no legislation on the table, just 'look at us! Booga booga!' Not being involved isn't cowardice, it's prudence and wisdom.



1+!
 

Freedom First

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
845
Location
Kennewick, Wa.
Loaded long guns........civil disobedience..........people being funneled across a bridge................police in armor waiting on the other side.........a shot rings out...............

One person, that is all it will take. One person to discharge a weapon, LEO or Citizen, it will not matter.

The issue I see here is that on April 19, 1775, the Lexington Militia were standing ON THEIR LAND when the aggressors marched in on them. This event sets up a situation where the forces of .gov will be perceived as the "passive" defenders of the status quo and the men seeking to right the wrongs being committed against them are going to be seen as the aggressors.

For the low information exposed, media fed, farm stock, this will look like a revolution in progress, perhaps even a revolution against them and their chosen way of life. Nothing good will come of this. If .gov wants a war, let them start it. Given time, they will.



Now the Dutchman, as he likes to be called, is about as rabid an individual as you ever want to meet when the subject is politics, rights, and especially the Second Amendment. When he calls the proposer of this event a nut-case you can be fairly well assured that he is talking major Looney Tunes material.

Vanderboegh. He's not rabid, he's serious. There is a difference.

I agree with him and other posters here that it would only take ONE provocateur in that group of 1,000 armed men to start a bloodbath. And Adam Kokesh is somehow gonna vet all these folks and place them under correct authority? Never gonna happen. It'll be a herd of armed and possibly well intentioned cats without clear leadership or any form of internal discipline. In the army this was described as a cluster f**k. People will die.

So blood is shed. And who would benefit from that? Only those who control what the public see and hear about the events of that day of course...

And the dawn of the next day will bring us what? A new America? Surely. What kind of America? That will come down to determined and skilled minorities and the will to live Free. Either way, some of us will be ready to stand to defend our Rights and our communities.

We're getting beyond the scope of OC as a means to protect an already regulated and limited Right. We are heading into dark days where, if not restrained correctly, the forces of violence will destroy what little remains of the Founder's Republic. The forces are gathering and lines are being drawn.

I think there is a good chance this event will happen. 1,000 men is only 20 from each state. If in these divisive days, an impassioned speaker such as Adam cannot gather that number of men I will be shocked. And then all that remains is the test of wills.

"Colonial rebellions throughout the modern world have been acts of shared political imagination. Unless unhappy people develop the capacity to trust other unhappy people, protest remains a local affair easily silenced by traditional authority. Usually, however, a moment arrives when large numbers of men and women realize for the first time that they enjoy the support of strangers, ordinary people much like themselves who happen to live in distant places and whom under normal circumstances they would never meet. It is an intoxicating discovery. A common language of resistance suddenly opens to those who are most vulnerable to painful retribution the possibility of creating a new community. As the conviction of solidarity grows, parochial issues and aspirations merge imperceptibly with a compelling national agenda which only a short time before may have been the dream of only a few. For many Americans colonists this moment occurred late in the spring of 1774." -- T.H. Breen, The Marketplace of Revolution

Will there be a repeat of this phenomenon here in the next year or two? People are talking. A poll released last week discussed something like 28% of the polled thought that there would be a need for a revolution in the next few years. Breen, in another book, discusses the concept that there came a point when the colonists decided, individually first, then collectively, that violence was an acceptable method of creating the change they sought. This wasn't a top down process, it was a result of people becoming exposed to the sufferings of their neighbors in other colonies and their own personal discomfort. In short, the Parliament pushed them too far. There are clear comparisons that can be drawn from the years leading up to 1774 and the actions of our servants in DC today. They push us unrelentingly. They despise us and mock us. They waste our life energy and they plan on continuing with our children. Will we take this forever? Should we?

I guess that's the real question with all of this. Should we?
 
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Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
The issue I see here is that on April 19, 1775, the Lexington Militia were standing ON THEIR LAND when the aggressors marched in on them. This event sets up a situation where the forces of .gov will be perceived as the "passive" defenders of the status quo and the men seeking to right the wrongs being committed against them are going to be seen as the aggressors.

For the low information exposed, media fed, farm stock, this will look like a revolution in progress, perhaps even a revolution against them and their chosen way of life. Nothing good will come of this. If .gov wants a war, let them start it. Given time, they will.





Vanderboegh. He's not rabid, he's serious. There is a difference.

I agree with him and other posters here that it would only take ONE provocateur in that group of 1,000 armed men to start a bloodbath. And Adam Kokesh is somehow gonna vet all these folks and place them under correct authority? Never gonna happen. It'll be a herd of armed and possibly well intentioned cats without clear leadership or any form of internal discipline. In the army this was described as a cluster f**k. People will die.

So blood is shed. And who would benefit from that? Only those who control what the public see and hear about the events of that day of course...

And the dawn of the next day will bring us what? A new America? Surely. What kind of America? That will come down to determined and skilled minorities and the will to live Free. Either way, some of us will be ready to stand to defend our Rights and our communities.

We're getting beyond the scope of OC as a means to protect an already regulated and limited Right. We are heading into dark days where, if not restrained correctly, the forces of violence will destroy what little remains of the Founder's Republic. The forces are gathering and lines are being drawn.

I think there is a good chance this event will happen. 1,000 men is only 20 from each state. If in these divisive days, an impassioned speaker such as Adam cannot gather that number of men I will be shocked. And then all that remains is the test of wills.

"Colonial rebellions throughout the modern world have been acts of shared political imagination. Unless unhappy people develop the capacity to trust other unhappy people, protest remains a local affair easily silenced by traditional authority. Usually, however, a moment arrives when large numbers of men and women realize for the first time that they enjoy the support of strangers, ordinary people much like themselves who happen to live in distant places and whom under normal circumstances they would never meet. It is an intoxicating discovery. A common language of resistance suddenly opens to those who are most vulnerable to painful retribution the possibility of creating a new community. As the conviction of solidarity grows, parochial issues and aspirations merge imperceptibly with a compelling national agenda which only a short time before may have been the dream of only a few. For many Americans colonists this moment occurred late in the spring of 1774." -- T.H. Breen, The Marketplace of Revolution

Will there be a repeat of this phenomenon here in the next year or two? People are talking. A poll released last week discussed something like 28% of the polled thought that there would be a need for a revolution in the next few years. Breen, in another book, discusses the concept that there came a point when the colonists decided, individually first, then collectively, that violence was an acceptable method of creating the change they sought. This wasn't a top down process, it was a result of people becoming exposed to the sufferings of their neighbors in other colonies and their own personal discomfort. In short, the Parliament pushed them too far. There are clear comparisons that can be drawn from the years leading up to 1774 and the actions of our servants in DC today. They push us unrelentingly. They despise us and mock us. The waste our life energy and they plan on continuing with our children. Will we take this forever? Should we?

I guess that's the real question with all of this. Should we?

Maybe the real intent is to try and goad the .gov to try and intervene in good guy territory (Virginia). After all getting together for the open carry of firearms is completely legal in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Perhaps VCDL needs to assemble on the Virginia side to ensure that .gov does not try to infringe on the rights of free men (and women) in the Commonwealth.

This would also make the .gov very unhappy because they would not know who in Alexandria was an intruder (intruder = DC partygoer) and who was a defender.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I can ask my supervisor if it's considered VA/or strictly Army only. If the VA has anything to do with it, my safe educated answer is No, you can't.
The Department of the Army administers Arlington National Cemetery.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/docs/Carrying_or_Possession_of_Fireams.pdf

As it does during Lobby Day or any other day.
But there is not a law against carrying at Lobby Day or in Virginia generally.

FIFY Marco.

It really is!
Anyone have a crystal ball handy (The object, not the person):uhoh:

Ask the Magic 8 Ball your question.
http://www.amazon.com/Mattel-30188-...n.com/Mattel-30188-Magic-8-Ball/dp/B00001ZWV7
 

va_tazdad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,162
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
They will call it

Loaded long guns........civil disobedience..........people being funneled across a bridge................police in armor waiting on the other side.........a shot rings out...............




One person, that is all it will take. One person to discharge a weapon, LEO or Citizen, it will not matter.

The DC Killing Field.
Consider that there would be DC Police, US Park Police, USSS, FBI, and the new DHS "Agents" all monitoring this "event".

If nobody fires, but one demonstrator takes his long gun off to adjust the strap, it will scare one of DC's "finest" and the bloodbath will commence.

This is a foolish idea, no matter what angle you look at it from!
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Come to think of it, promoting long gun carry is Off Topic here - rule #14.

So to is civil disobedience. We are law abiding. If we disagree with a law, we either defeat it in the courts or through the legislative process.
 

sharkey

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
1,064
Location
Arizona
The event is only a "go" with 10,000 commitments. The last time I checked, there were less than a thousand.

Adam Kokesh has put his ass on the line multiple times, but he's not an idiot. He knows this only works with massive numbers, and is foolish with anything less.

When I posted 6 hours before you the number was over 1300 (see screenshot).

As of right now the number is 2,168 confirmed, 1,963 maybes, and over 46k invites sent.

He will reach his number, gun rights organizations need to start planning their statements in response to this upcoming event.


ETA. Image posted by Adam Kokesh

I LOL'd because it's true.




935405_10151384773036260_624177467_n.jpg
 
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Mongoose72

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
101
Location
Virginia
Come to think of it, promoting long gun carry is Off Topic here - rule #14.

So to is civil disobedience. We are law abiding. If we disagree with a law, we either defeat it in the courts or through the legislative process.

I have no intention of going; however I think (not sure) that there actually is no law against long gun open carry in DC thus this is not an act of civil disobedience. However just like in Maryland where the AG says that long gun open carry is legal defacto it would get you arrested if not shot if not done in a very rural area. Its a bit of a hair split, but since open carry of handguns is illegal in DC then OC of long guns is the only option thus I don't think this violates the spirit of rule 14. Again, I am not going as I am not even sure this is a good idea I just don't want to see the thread get locked as I think it is worthy of a discussion and is not in violation of forum rules.
 

Grapeshot

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Messages
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Valhalla
I have no intention of going; however I think (not sure) that there actually is no law against long gun open carry in DC thus this is not an act of civil disobedience. However just like in Maryland where the AG says that long gun open carry is legal defacto it would get you arrested if not shot if not done in a very rural area. Its a bit of a hair split, but since open carry of handguns is illegal in DC then OC of long guns is the only option thus I don't think this violates the spirit of rule 14. Again, I am not going as I am not even sure this is a good idea I just don't want to see the thread get locked as I think it is worthy of a discussion and is not in violation of forum rules.
Possession of Unregistered Firearm (UF): It is illegal to possess or sell a firearm in the Washington, DC without a valid registration certificate. The penalty for violating this section is a maximum fine of $1000 and/or a maximum of one year imprisonment. It is a valid defense that the person temporarily possessed the firearm to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to someone. D.C. Criminal Code 7-2502.01

(14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions such as California which ban handgun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.

D.C. does not outright ban handgun carry.

Watching this is fine. Promoting, advocating, endorsing violates the rules on several levels.
 

Mongoose72

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
101
Location
Virginia
Possession of Unregistered Firearm (UF): It is illegal to possess or sell a firearm in the Washington, DC without a valid registration certificate. The penalty for violating this section is a maximum fine of $1000 and/or a maximum of one year imprisonment. It is a valid defense that the person temporarily possessed the firearm to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to someone. D.C. Criminal Code 7-2502.01

(14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions such as California which ban handgun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.

D.C. does not outright ban handgun carry.

Watching this is fine. Promoting, advocating, endorsing violates the rules on several levels.




Again this is hair splitting:
1. As far as I know there is no law against open carry of long guns in DC. The law you cited is about registration not carry.
2. Defacto vs legal:
A. Actually carrying a long gun in DC or MD will get you shot or arrested defacto.
B. “Theoretically” states such as MD do not prohibit open carry as it is legal with a MD gun permit. “In practice” the permit is nearly impossible to obtain for normal people and will be lost if one practices open carry unless they are a security guard or LEO. I am sure that the situation in DC is quite similar.
So the question remains are we talking about a theoretical world that only exists in law books where open carry is legal in MD and DC or the real world where defacto open carry is not allowed?

Again I think the event is probably a bad idea but it is worthy of discussion as it addresses DC an area which defacto bans open carry by normal citizens.
 
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pyite

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Jul 28, 2009
Messages
128
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
Again this is hair splitting:
1. As far as I know there is no law against open carry of long guns in DC. The law you cited is about registration not carry.
2. Defacto vs legal:
A. Actually carrying a long gun in DC or MD will get you shot or arrested defacto.
B. “Theoretically” states such as MD do not prohibit open carry as it is legal with a MD gun permit. “In practice” the permit is nearly impossible to obtain for normal people and will be lost if one practices open carry unless they are a security guard or LEO. I am sure that the situation in DC is quite similar.
So the question remains are we talking about a theoretical world that only exists in law books where open carry is legal in MD and DC or the real world where defacto open carry is not allowed?

Again I think the event is probably a bad idea but it is worthy of discussion as it addresses DC an area which defacto bans open carry by normal citizens.

Grapeshot cited THE law. Try reading it again. "Possession of Unregistered Firearm (UF): It is illegal to possess or sell a firearm in the Washington, DC without a valid registration certificate."

If after reading it again, you still believe that open carrying of a rifle is not covered by that statement, go and try it.

This march is a stupid idea and is going to do more to hurt the right to bear arms instead of help it.
 

Mongoose72

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Jan 6, 2013
Messages
101
Location
Virginia
Grapeshot cited THE law. Try reading it again. "Possession of Unregistered Firearm (UF): It is illegal to possess or sell a firearm in the Washington, DC without a valid registration certificate."

If after reading it again, you still believe that open carrying of a rifle is not covered by that statement, go and try it.

This march is a stupid idea and is going to do more to hurt the right to bear arms instead of help it.


Since this discussion has degenerated into the highly theoretical I will make it clearer: forcing registration of a weapon is not per se banning of open carry. Obviously legal carry would be restricted to DC residents possessing such registrations.

Read my posting again where I state that even having the right theoretically to open carry does not translate into actually having that right in the real world due to defacto restrictions. If this is too complicated let me know and I will try simplifying it more.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Grapeshot cited THE law. Try reading it again. "Possession of Unregistered Firearm (UF): It is illegal to possess or sell a firearm in the Washington, DC without a valid registration certificate."

If after reading it again, you still believe that open carrying of a rifle is not covered by that statement, go and try it.

This march is a stupid idea and is going to do more to hurt the right to bear arms instead of help it.

Yep. This march is going to come off as people committing an armed attack on our government. More folks will be turned off to the RKBA than will have a positive reaction.

Bad juju.
 
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