March on Washington 07-04-2013

[Jay Jacobs]

Eye, with all due respect, you are attempting to impose your will/interpretation by the weight/volume of your words. Such cannot be allowed - it effectively hijacks the thread. Please do us both a courtesy and cease.

+ 3

 

[BB62]

I don't know who/what the "Vanderboeghs" are mentioned in the comments, but the subject of the article below ("More on Adam Kokesh and his Armed March on Washington") is the leader of the event under discussion:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2013/05/more-on-adam-kokesh-and-his-armed-march.html

The website calls itself "The gathering place for a merry band of Three Percenters", presumably referring to the supposed percentage of people willing to actually take action to make the American Revolution a reality.

I don't know what to make of the "article", because it seems largely composed of others allegations about Kokesh. Maybe those who more fully understand or who are more familiar with the 'players' can comment.

I have no dog in the fight, but IF the guy (Kokesh) is not to be trusted, then despite what may be perceived as positive aspects of the "march", his presence may poorly serve the purported purpose.

 

[Red Dawg]

No, I am not. In fact, I have clearly stated that you are well within your rights as an agent of the owners to allow this thread to stand, even though it is clearly a violation of two of the stated rules of this site. You may not like my pointing out this fact. Hell, you will likely take official action to shut me up (again, your right), but it does not change these facts.

I see three courses of action: Most logical would be to enforce the rules and lock the thread. Next would be to realize that the facts I posted are correct, but that you are willing to accept that state of affairs and move on. Third would be to continue to argue with me despite my having posted inarguable facts.

Oh, and fourth, and what I expect, you can use your powers to silence me. That I expect. But, again, your right. However, the irony is that, if you take that particular course, you will be validating what I am saying. So, I'll live.

Not moving on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

I object
Over ruled
I strenuously object
over ruled
I object vehemently
over ruled

Eye, we know you think it's against the rules to discuss. Got it...Don't discuss it. (well you haven't been really, all you're doing is whining about OCDOs rules)
We are interested, and John is allowing us to discuss it within reason.
John is allowing us to have some free will. Let it go man, let it go...

 

[Freedom First]

I don't know who/what the "Vanderboeghs" are mentioned in the comments, but the subject of the article below ("More on Adam Kokesh and his Armed March on Washington") is the leader of the event under discussion:

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2013/05/more-on-adam-kokesh-and-his-armed-march.html

The website calls itself "The gathering place for a merry band of Three Percenters", presumably referring to the supposed percentage of people willing to actually take action to make the American Revolution a reality.

Sipsey Street Irregulars is Mike Vanderboegh's blog. The concept of the Three Percenter came from him and some folks around him. Think Oathkeepers, but from a civilian Patriot angle. It's summed up in this statement: Not another inch. He has no connection with Kokesh and doesn't like him a bit. Then again, patriotic men have often squabbled and the results speak for themselves.

Threepers aren't seeking a war. They are willing to work the system as the government busies itself in foreign affairs and the normal day to day corruption that is part of DC but when it comes for them, their neighbors or their means of acting in self defense, they've got no wiggle room. Read "What is a Three Percenter" for a better discussion.

I don't know what to make of the "article", because it seems largely composed of others allegations about Kokesh. Maybe those who more fully understand or who are more familiar with the 'players' can comment.

I have no dog in the fight, but IF the guy (Kokesh) is not to be trusted, then despite what may be perceived as positive aspects of the "march", his presence may poorly serve the purported purpose.

I'm slowly coming to think that Kokesh may be a newer version of Sam Adams (not the beer), a rabblerouser and leader/instigator of mobs during the decade of the Boston troubles leading up to 1775. I'm sure he made the armchair QBs back then very uncomfortable and nervous about the "What ifs" that might occur from his unauthorized and illegal activities.

Then again, it all turned out fairly well in the end, so who's to say. Except Eye, that is... He'll have his say and that's his right.

 

[Freedom First]

Let it go man, let it go...

Never gonna happen. Don't waste your breath.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Worse, at Kent State, none of the students were approaching anything (let alone the nation's capitol) with 10,000+ armed people in direct violation of the law!

Now, if Kent State can erupt into gunfire, what do you think the chance of shots being fired at this rally are? I put it at near 100%.

Stupid. And illegal.

So was vandalism and theft and destruction of tea by some early Americans......if they outlawed guns tomorrow are you turning your in?

I understand your position and you are of course entitled to it, I think it's very right for you to point out your concerns and that all who favor this or would engage in any civil rights stance realizes that the states main power as it exists now is of aggressive murderous coercion. No different than the main power of the British Empire when those pesky British Radicals who threw tea into the ocean, or who smuggled goods, or beat up British soldiers, tore British officials homes apart and insisted their government recognize their right of resistance and of bearing arms.

I put the percentage way down, if the government is smart, they will simply allow the march to happen with no interference, consider it an exercise of free speech and ......move on.

 

[eye95]

I object
Over ruled
I strenuously object
over ruled
I object vehemently
over ruled

Eye, we know you think it's against the rules to discuss. Got it...Don't discuss it. (well you haven't been really, all you're doing is whining about OCDOs rules)
We are interested, and John is allowing us to discuss it within reason.
John is allowing us to have some free will. Let it go man, let it go...

Oddly, every one of my replies has been to a post that won't let it go. I would have been done, but you brought it up again, and what I mean when I say "not moving on" is that I will reply to all replies. Up to you whether this continues.

However, this thread, as I have said before, clearly violates two rules of the site. The owners and agents are free to ignore their rules. I, however, will point it out.

Again, not moving on as long as anyone else is willing to continue to discuss this.

 

[eye95]

Never gonna happen. Don't waste your breath.

Actually, it is also posts like this that keep it going, the keep me pointing out that this thread violates the rules of the site.

So, you can let it go. But, I won't waste my breath.

 

[eye95]

So was vandalism and theft and destruction of tea by some early Americans......if they outlawed guns tomorrow are you turning your in?

I understand your position and you are of course entitled to it, I think it's very right for you to point out your concerns and that all who favor this or would engage in any civil rights stance realizes that the states main power as it exists now is of aggressive murderous coercion. No different than the main power of the British Empire when those pesky British Radicals who threw tea into the ocean, or who smuggled goods, or beat up British soldiers, tore British officials homes apart and insisted their government recognize their right of resistance and of bearing arms.

I put the percentage way down, if the government is smart, they will simply allow the march to happen with no interference, consider it an exercise of free speech and ......move on.

If we ever arrive at a when-in-the-course-of-human-events moment, you will have no doubt where I stand. We aren't there yet. This stupidity on the bridge may end up forcing us there, but we ain't there yet.

 

[BB62]

Actually, it is also posts like this that keep it going, the keep me pointing out that this thread violates the rules of the site...

eye95, you're a good and reliable RKBA guy, but at this point you have become nothing more than a troll with respect to this thread.

You keep stating the same thing, over and over. You make the statement "But the site owners have a right to allow their rules to be violated. They lose some credibility, but they have the right to use their property as they see fit.", but then continue to voice your objections to the whole thing.

I will no longer respond to you, and I encourage others not to - unless and until you have something new to say.

You are not engaging in discussion, you are engaging in repetition.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

If we ever arrive at a when-in-the-course-of-human-events moment, you will have no doubt where I stand. We aren't there yet. This stupidity on the bridge may end up forcing us there, but we ain't there yet.

I understand you don't feel we are there yet. Although the modern tyranny is a lot more than the those who penned "when in the course of human events" had to endure.

Many of the fellow colonist felt exactly as you do, it was the response of their government to people taken action that brought them to the cause........they would have happily continued as subjects scorning any rebellious nature of those pesky confrontational radicals.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

You are not engaging in discussion, you are engaging in repetition.

He seems to be engaging in discussion with me.....

 

[BB62]

...Threepers aren't seeking a war. They are willing to work the system as the government busies itself in foreign affairs and the normal day to day corruption that is part of DC but when it comes for them, their neighbors or their means of acting in self defense, they've got no wiggle room. Read "What is a Three Percenter" for a better discussion.


I'm slowly coming to think that Kokesh may be a newer version of Sam Adams (not the beer), a rabblerouser and leader/instigator of mobs during the decade of the Boston troubles leading up to 1775. I'm sure he made the armchair QBs back then very uncomfortable and nervous about the "What ifs" that might occur from his unauthorized and illegal activities.

Then again, it all turned out fairly well in the end, so who's to say. Except Eye, that is... He'll have his say and that's his right.

Thanks for your comments. As someone else said, this will be interesting to watch - whether it happens or not, and from both sides.

I have to admit, I am nowhere near versed in the 'players' in the colonies in the late 1700's. As little as I recall now, I do remember discussion of such things when I was in parochial grade school - but I think that today's children get nothing of the history that I received - and we as a society are poorer for it, IMHO.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Thanks for your comments. As someone else said, this will be interesting to watch - whether it happens or not, and from both sides.

I have to admit, I am nowhere near versed in the 'players' in the colonies in the late 1700's. As little as I recall now, I do remember discussion of such things when I was in parochial grade school - but I think that today's children get nothing of the history that I received - and we as a society are poorer for it, IMHO.

I would like to recommend a book Concieved in Liberty by Murray Rothbard. Who unabashedly points out the bad and the good of the colonies from the first settlers through the War for Independence. A 5000 page book that is very hard to put down. It destroys many of the myths held today.

It's sad history isn't taught properly in schools. Why is it the "winners" are always the good guys in history?

 

[eye95]

eye95, you're a good and reliable RKBA guy, but at this point you have become nothing more than a troll with respect to this thread.

You keep stating the same thing, over and over. You make the statement "But the site owners have a right to allow their rules to be violated. They lose some credibility, but they have the right to use their property as they see fit.", but then continue to voice your objections to the whole thing.

I will no longer respond to you, and I encourage others not to - unless and until you have something new to say.

You are not engaging in discussion, you are engaging in repetition.

And, one might argue, that you just kept it going yourself.

Your suggestion on not responding to my point that this thread is a double-rules violation is a good one. I keep voicing objections when my objections are objected to. So, as long as folks stop objecting to my objections, I won't feel the need to reiterate and justify them.

 

[eye95]

I understand you don't feel we are there yet. Although the modern tyranny is a lot more than the those who penned "when in the course of human events" had to endure.

Many of the fellow colonist felt exactly as you do, it was the response of their government to people taken action that brought them to the cause........they would have happily continued as subjects scorning any rebellious nature of those pesky confrontational radicals.

I disagree. No one is marching on us to take away our ability to when-in-the-course their asses.

Some folks from our side of the issue are trying to provoke the shooting. I see them as the aggressors--and morally wrong (as well as law-breaking).

 

[eye95]

He seems to be engaging in discussion with me.....

You noticed that? You are one perceptive dude!

I tend to discuss on the level at which I am approached. You usually bring class to discussions, so I try (maybe failing sometimes) to return class.

When confronted with...well the examples are there.

Thanks for taking the high road.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I disagree. No one is marching on us to take away our ability to when-in-the-course their asses.

Some folks from our side of the issue are trying to provoke the shooting. I see them as the aggressors--and morally wrong (as well as law-breaking).

This is where our disagreement comes from, its all perception.

I at this juncture am not willing to endorse or jump on board, at the same time I have my reservations about judging their actions as wrong.

 

[alphamale]

Intersting commentary about the march

http://www.governamerica.com/opinio...ing-on-washington-with-your-weapons-stay-home

Thinking of marching on Washington with guns? Stay home!

Print
Email

Details
Category: Darren Weeks
Published on Wednesday, 08 May 2013 03:37
Hits: 204

Darren Weeks
Coalition to Govern America
May 7, 2013



I was horrified this week to learn that Adam Kokesh, an Iraq war veteran, and radio and TV host is organizing a group to march on Washington D.C. with loaded rifles. They're planning their march for July 4th and will be meeting at the "National Cemetery & at noon we will step off to march across the Memorial Bridge, down Independence Avenue, around the Capitol, the Supreme Court, & the White House, then peacefully return to Virginia across the Memorial Bridge," according to the official Facebook page for the event.



Washington D.C. is disarmed, and therefore anyone participating in the event would be subject to arrest, a detail that is not lost on Kokesh. "This is an act of civil disobedience, not a permitted event," he notes, adding that the purpose is "to put the government on notice that we will not be intimidated & cower in submission to tyranny. "



He goes on to cite the oft-used Jefferson quote that when the people fear government there is tyranny, but when the government fears the people, there is freedom. OK, fine.



But does Kokesh or any of the now 2,500+ people who are apparently planning on participating in his elaborate shindig really believe that marching through the District of Criminals with loaded rifles is going to frighten any of the slimy tyrants who are screwing raw the American people? We're talking about a federal government with the largest military, possessing some of the most sophisticated military equipment in the world! Nobody knows that better than Kokesh himself, who served in the Marines. So he and his group of followers are going to "put the government on notice" huh? That you're going to do what, exactly?



For his part, Kokesh assures his recruits that he has no intention of starting any conflicts. "This will be a non-violent event, unless the government chooses to make it violent. Should we meet physical resistance, we will peacefully turn back, having shown that free people are not welcome in Washington, & returning with the resolve that the politicians, bureaucrats, & enforcers of the federal government will not be welcome in the land of the free."

That sounds all well and good, except for one thing. What if someone in the group decides to make it violent, Mr. Kokesh? It would only take one individual getting a wild hair up their hind end to create a very disastrous scenario. Even of greater concern, what if the Feds, themselves, who have already demonstrated an insatiable lust to go after gun owners and patriot groups alike, decided to send agents provocateur into the group to participate, then these infiltrators decide to make it violent?



He goes on to say that "there's a remote chance that there will be violence as there has been from government before, and I think it should be clear that if anyone involved in this event is approached respectfully by agents of the state, they will submit to arrest without resisting. We are truly saying in the SUBTLEST way possible that we would rather die on our feet than live on our knees."



Thousands of armed individuals parading into Washington D.C. during the annual 4th of July festivities? Yeah, that's pretty subtle. About as subtle as a derailed freight train.



Forgive me, but this is extremely foolish and stupid! Everyone participating in this event, regardless of how well-meaning the individuals might be, are begging for an incident with the feds. If the police begin roughing up the protesters, as they too often do at protests, are you going to let them pummel you or will you defend yourself with your firearms? You should know that getting the cooperation of the D.C. police will be highly unlikely. The Washington D.C. police are a division of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. They even have "Homeland Security" written on all of their police cars. I've personally seen it.



If I were Barack Obama, Janet Napolitano, or Eric Holder, this armed march on D.C. by pro-gun patriot groups would be my dream come true. Here's their chance to set you up, validate all of the FBI documents that have warned of the supposed "dangers" of "right-wing extremists", returning military, and Constitution-believing patriots as domestic terrorists who want to nothing more than to create violence and overthrow the government. I can see the headlines now.



We implore anyone who might be considering joining in with this march to just stay home. At best, you'll accomplish nothing. The feds are not going to listen to you. They don't care what you think. They've demonstrated that countless times.



You want a solution? Work within your states. Pressure your elected officials there to institute state militias, to defend your state against the federal onslaught. Instruct them to move away from accepting federal handouts, which make the states beholden to the federal mandates and turn our local police departments into extensions of the Department of Homeland Security.



Work with your county sheriffs and get them on the side of freedom. Show them that they'll have the backing of their communities when the feds come into town and they stand up to them.

Encourage your state representatives to "re-present" your concerns to Congress and petition them, on your behalf, for redress of grievances. If D.C. got a bunch of state lawmakers descending upon the town proclaiming that their constituents were furious with them, it would hold more weight than if an individual calls, writes, or visits.



An armed march on Washington, even though it may be emotionally satisfying for an understandably disgruntled, increasingly poor and disenfranchised populace, has all of the potential of a powder keg, waiting for a spark. In the very real chance something is ignited, you will have become a domestic terrorist. Furthermore, you may well give the feds the fuel to declare Martial Law — and, in this case, it would actually be Constitutional! Don't think so? Then, you need to read Article 1, Section 8 very carefully. If you think the recent episode of Martial Law in Boston was bad, it can always get worse. That's too great a risk to take simply to make a statement.



With all of your thousands of rifles, the feds still have bigger guns than you do. There is absolutely no sense in giving them the justification they crave to turn them on the American people.

http://www.governamerica.com/opinio...ing-on-washington-with-your-weapons-stay-home

 

[sudden valley gunner]

You noticed that? You are one perceptive dude!

I tend to discuss on the level at which I am approached. You usually bring class to discussions, so I try (maybe failing sometimes) to return class.

When confronted with...well the examples are there.

Thanks for taking the high road.

Thank you I'll take that as a compliment. We often disagree but in discussing matters rationally , I find I can learn more from the person I have the disagreement with. So thank you for returning in kind to me.