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March on Washington 07-04-2013

pyite

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
128
Location
Yorktown, Virginia, USA
Since this discussion has degenerated into the highly theoretical I will make it clearer: forcing registration of a weapon is not per se banning of open carry. Obviously legal carry would be restricted to DC residents possessing such registrations.

Read my posting again where I state that even having the right theoretically to open carry does not translate into actually having that right in the real world due to defacto restrictions. If this is too complicated let me know and I will try simplifying it more.


You cannot open carry anything without possessing it. Perhaps you should open carry a tree branch into DC.
 

Gene Beasley

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
426
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
“A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost” from OCDO home page.


A huge +1.

I've still got time to decide and plan. It's a long travel and a number of other excuses I could pitch to keep me from going. I'm obviously not anonymous so I'm not anxious to have any paper-wielding .gov's at my door. I just sigh and wonder how far down will we allow ourselves to be pushed under the crushing weight of this government. If we have the right to bear arms, assemble, petition the government, yada yada yada but don't use them... when. I'm tired of watching the bastardization of the constitution ever since NFA and the laughable interpretation by SCOTUS of the Commerce Clause. It's not like they haven't screwed up other decisions so badly that they had to reverse holdings of prior SCOTUS. I know there's much that has gone wrong prior to 1934, it's just a convenient place to start for the purpose of this forum. Peace
 

Freedom First

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
845
Location
Kennewick, Wa.
I've still got time to decide and plan. It's a long travel and a number of other excuses I could pitch to keep me from going. I'm obviously not anonymous so I'm not anxious to have any paper-wielding .gov's at my door. I just sigh and wonder how far down will we allow ourselves to be pushed under the crushing weight of this government. If we have the right to bear arms, assemble, petition the government, yada yada yada but don't use them... when. I'm tired of watching the bastardization of the constitution ever since NFA and the laughable interpretation by SCOTUS of the Commerce Clause. It's not like they haven't screwed up other decisions so badly that they had to reverse holdings of prior SCOTUS. I know there's much that has gone wrong prior to 1934, it's just a convenient place to start for the purpose of this forum. Peace

Today, all across the country, there are serious men and women thinking similar thoughts regardless of the "law" and forum memberships.

Can I suggest that folks go and listen to or read Patrick Henry's speech to the House of Burgess back in March 23, 1775?

I was going to cite it here but folks need to take the time to listen to a long dead man who truly cared about what happened to his nation. Who does he sound like today? Rush? Hannity? Vanderboegh? Kokesh?

And the real question: "Was he wrong?"
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Since this discussion has degenerated into the highly theoretical I will make it clearer: forcing registration of a weapon is not per se banning of open carry. Obviously legal carry would be restricted to DC residents possessing such registrations.

Read my posting again where I state that even having the right theoretically to open carry does not translate into actually having that right in the real world due to defacto restrictions. If this is too complicated let me know and I will try simplifying it more.

Theoretically, practically, defacto, ad nasium - it is, via black letter law, illegal to posses a gun w/o registering and to open carry a gun in the District of Columbia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

Adam Kokesh Planning 'Illegal' Open Carry Gun March On D.C.
http://www.dailypaul.com/284457/adam-kokesh-planning-illegal-open-carry-gun-march-on-dc


Only six states and Washington, D.C., prohibit open carry.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...instream-america-shifting-towards-open-carry/

If you cannot register it legally, you cannot possess it legally; therefore, you cannot legally open carry it.

You could OTOH be arrested or worse for open carrying in D.C............theoretically.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Just about 2A?

I think we are all missing the overall point of this event. On the surface, and to many main stream media teet suckers, this will be a gun rights march. This is much more than that. This is a march to show the .gov that the American people will not live in fear of their government. From the DHS Ammo buys, to Bengazi(sp), our government is working to destroy this country from the inside out.

These people should be applauded. They have already done more than most of the keyboard jockeys here, myself included. The way I see it, if you dont support it, state your opinion, then get out of the way. This is happening.

As for OCDO's non support of this, that is their decision. They decide what will work best for the site. However, that does not forgive the fact that their rules completely contradict the site motto. OCDO says, "A right not exercised is a right lost". But then they turn around a tell us that they dont fully support the
2A, much like iowacarry.org, iowa gun owners, etc, etc. Its asinine, and not much different than any unconstitutional state law that says when and where you can exercise that right.

For any of you that believe that we still have time to "legislate" our way out of this, its time to wake up. Look at how long it takes them to do ANYTHING that benefits the American people. But when the time comes to pass some new tax law, grant citizenship to illegal immigrants, or introduce gun ban legislation, or any law that suits them, it seems to be an instantaneous process that gets put to a vote while we sleep. The only way to fix the problem is to completely abolish the current form of government, and reinstate the Constitutional Republic style government that this country was originally designed to be. But I fear we are past the point of action.

I fully support this CONSTITUTIONAL EXERCISE. As the results will do one of two things: 1)Slow the .gov's roll and force them to back off, or 2)Show us just how much trouble we are really in.
 
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Jay Jacobs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Messages
100
Location
Canton, GA
I don't think this is so much intrinsically a bad idea as it is bad timing/context. If the last round in Congress had gone 100% to the gun grabbers and bans were to be put in place, I would actually be up for this. It would be time, in that context, to do something more than write a 'sternly-worded letter', but that's not where we are right now. We "won" in Congress, and this is not how to move the ball forward. Indeed, this sort of action now might break the political coalition that prevented the bad legislation in the first place, snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory. We should be using the vaguely pro-rights political block that exists right now to start moving legislation, not making grandstanding overtures that don't even have anything but an abstract point.

This is not the right time or the right way to do things. If there were a credible threat, real laws about to be enforced that would criminalize a portion of gun owners or something to that effect, I would stand and be counted in an effort like this. But there is no exigent need for this, and anybody who puts their neck out for this isn't just risking themselves, they're risking all the current efforts toward meaningful change that have been in progress. And there are real efforts, Constitutional carry is spreading, and that in many ways is truly meaningful restoration of the Constitution as intended.

I do wonder as some already have if Kokesh isn't being played by somebody in the administration. This just has a feel so foolish as to be false flag. And there is no deeper purpose than to put on a show, no distinct or specific goal, no legislation on the table, just 'look at us! Booga booga!' Not being involved isn't cowardice, it's prudence and wisdom.

Overall I have to agree. And to someone who said he's "not ready to die". At some point, "we the people" will have to get ready or become subjects.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
Today, all across the country, there are serious men and women thinking similar thoughts regardless of the "law" and forum memberships.

Can I suggest that folks go and listen to or read Patrick Henry's speech to the House of Burgess back in March 23, 1775?

I was going to cite it here but folks need to take the time to listen to a long dead man who truly cared about what happened to his nation. Who does he sound like today? Rush? Hannity? Vanderboegh? Kokesh?

And the real question: "Was he wrong?"

Answer: No.


And an eerie resemblance to the Martial Law in Boston; " There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable—and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come!"
 

Defrock

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
98
Location
Nokesville, VA
Living near DC, I mentally thought through such an event myself. This may be the moment where things change. It may go 'badly' for those involved, but it may awaken a large mass of people, much like the Boston Massacre.

I have a large young family and have to heavily weigh my options on this one. It would be the easier route to not go and make all sorts of excuses, but it wouldn't be the right thing to do.

My biggest beef with this plan is that it is on July 4th. Have any of you been in DC on July 4th? It's standing room only EVERYWHERE! Pulling off a march like that with weapons so many citizens in close proximity that will try to goad or openly fight with the protesters may be a bigger problem than the police.

Other than that, should I bring a 10 rd mag, 25 rd mag, or both?
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
It's standing room only EVERYWHERE! Pulling off a march like that with weapons so many citizens in close proximity that will try to goad or openly fight with the protesters may be a bigger problem than the police.

Then its up to the police to uphold their oath to defend the Constitution by protecting the patriots from the hordes of unlawful aggressors.
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
http://www.ibtimes.com/adam-kokesh-...washington-protest-loaded-guns-july-4-1238891

This is all over the internet news. I can appreciate some activism, but doing so in contravention of the current laws is just idiotic. Not to mention Kokesh's loud-mouthed, egotistical style puts a negative spin on open carry.

I personally think this is all around bad for us.

Thoughts?
Why dont you open your mind a bit and see that this is way bigger picture than open carry. This is American People drawing a line in the sand.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
- -snipped--

As for OCDO's non support of this, that is their decision. They decide what will work best for the site. However, that does not forgive the fact that their rules completely contradict the site motto. OCDO says, "A right not exercised is a right lost". But then they turn around a tell us that they dont fully support the 2A,

There is no contradiction there. OCDO is dedicated for all intents and purposes solely to the open carry of properly holstered handguns. The phrase "a right not exercised is a right lost" is singular and specific to OC of a handgun, nothing else. That is how this discussion forum was formulated and thereby limited.

Those that wish to not follow the site rules, propose breaking laws, and/or supporting armed violent overthrow of our government do NOT belong here.
 
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skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
OK, so we hypothetically all agree that DC/the federal government is violating our constitutional rights as outlined in the Second Amendment. We want them to stop infringing on that right. We have two choices laid out for us -

1) assemble and petition the govrernment for redress of our grievances. Keep doing it until they understand that we are not going away until they redress those grievances.

2) assemble a bunch of armed folks who seem to be gathering to say "Stop infringing now or else". Maytbe I've missed it among all the hype and rhetoric, but where is there a plan do do anything but stage what is essentially a show of force? Did I miss where these 1,000/10,00 strong rifle-toters are going to deposit boxes of signed petitions on the steps of the Capitol building? Did I miss where they have made plans/are making plans to meet with key congressional players to discuss/review bills that have been drafted and lay those in the hands of Representatives/Senators who will then introduce them?

This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XarpddX1BI and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw_Jn-uqWaA&feature=player_embedded is non-violent civil disobedience. The first marcher to resist/fight back is going to open a floodgate that will only be closed when there is no more blood left to flow.

I lived through the civil rights movement as an active participant on both sides. The protesters were knowingly and intentionally violating the law. They saw it as the only way to get what they wanted when all other attempts had failed. But by and large they did it in a non-violent fashion - both by actual action and by not bringing weapons with them that might be looked on as indicating a willingness to resort to violence.

Marching with a gun slung on your back does not suggest peaceful intent, regardless of what might be said by the organizer. You actively threaten the .gov and it will open a giant industrial sized can of whoop-@$$ on you.

If somebody can help me overcome these concerns I will fire up the gimpmobile and join up.

stay safe.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I think that people who want to exercise their rights should be able to do so ... otherwise, why have them?
+1





http://www.ibtimes.com/adam-kokesh-...washington-protest-loaded-guns-july-4-1238891

This is all over the internet news. I can appreciate some activism, but doing so in contravention of the current laws is just idiotic. Not to mention Kokesh's loud-mouthed, egotistical style puts a negative spin on open carry.

I personally think this is all around bad for us.

Thoughts?

Think a moment on what you are saying? Then explain to me how anyone exercising a right or taking a stand is a bad thing. I personally think this type of thought you have expressed here is part of the problem, pointing negatively to someone doing something the best they feel how. Anti constitutionalist don't love you anymore because you are discreet and not loud mouthed.....they hate you just the same.

Support rights or loose them.
 

sharkey

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
1,064
Location
Arizona
Overall I have to agree. And to someone who said he's "not ready to die". At some point, "we the people" will have to get ready or become subjects.

Not ready to die at this point. At "some point" that may change. :p

P.S. I agree with the statement you quoted. "But there is no exigent need for this". Progress is being made, slowly, but it is being made.

Having said that, I still support this action in principle, maybe not in timing, organization or leadership, but in principle.

If any of them die, then they have truly died defending our rights, unlike some U.S. soldier in a foreign land, but hey, that's another thread.
 
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MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
1245A Defender said:
I would suggest a change of plan...
Get the 10,000 men carrying loaded rifles,
Assemble them at all the main entrances to the holy enclave of DC...
that is all.
What he said. Keep it completely and strictly legal. Either stop at the middle of the bridges or stay on the free side of them.

And I agree w/ Skid - is there any indication of doing more than a show of force? Other than reminding people in DC that it's possible for them to be free if they exercise their other rights, what is the purpose?

The last time Congress had something 2A-related in front of them, they did the right thing.
Our other remedies are still working; no need for the 4th box yet.

sharkey said:
As of right now the number is 2,168 confirmed, 1,963 maybes, and over 46k invites sent.
Even if he gets his 10K confirmed (on facebook), no way will more than maybe a few hundred actually show up.
If I had the money to travel, or lived close enough to not worry about expense, I would be there...
on the legal side of the street/river/bridge, lawfully armed, and carrying my trauma kit.
Might even make up a 'first aid' sign to carry, or a vest with a big red cross on the front & back, to distinguish me as a noncombattant.
 
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