Greens Guide to 18-20 "Carry" of a handgun

[Bill Starks]

Policeman: When I saw you coming around the corner, I said to myself,
"Fifty-five at least."
Woman Driver: "Well, you are a long way off! It's this hat that
makes me look so old."

 

[BigDave]

Why does the case or wrapper have to be locked? It says closed case. Closed has a different meaning than locked. And secure wrapper... does secure mean locked?

Any case law on this?

For instance, how about a military flap holster? Is this a secure wrapper?

There may be an issue of carrying unloaded in a holster but no doubt in my mind there will be challenges in different jurisdictions.

Who wants to step up to the plate and take a swing? Anyone? How about our 18-20 advocates, I know it could end up being stressful and may incur an expense and at worse be found guilty do to an interpenetration of what is a secure wrapper.

I'll put $5.00 on it is, anyone else?

 

[dizzle2]

With time, knowledge and experience comes understanding and screw the law and test case issues is not showing a maturity level to get a full grasp on the issues at hand.
There are many other tools legal for the 18 to 120 year old out there that are effective tools for self defense the the best of of all is our mind and to take steps to avoid these issues as well there will be there times we have no control over.

You are on the right track but get hung up on this alternate way to carry, just make sure you do not loose this right before you can fully enjoy it.

why dont you put down your gun because, "there are other effective tools for self defense like our minds". haha, what a load. come on listen to yourself sir. It is you that speaks of gun advocacy all over on these forums...now your talking alternatives to carrying a gun???

 

[gogodawgs]

Remember...

State v. Seiyes...

The WA Supreme Court is very open to those under 21 having the right to bear arms. Read the decision, basically, if the appelant would of made the argument those under 21 might be able to carry. Pay particular note to footnote 22 below.

Tellingly Sieyes fails to provide convincing authority supporting an orginal
meaning of the Second Amendment, which would grant all children an unfettered right
to bear arms. In fact during oral argument Sieyes’s counsel conceded the opposite.
Furthermore Sieyes makes no adequate argument specific to the facts of this case that
a 17-year-old’s Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms has been violated by​

this statute.21 Similarly Sieyes mentions the statute restricting children from

possessing firearms violates his right to bear arms under article I, section 24, ​

but cites no authority and makes no argument for this proposition.

22 Sieyes’s objection may be that he was 17 years old at the time of his arrest, and his right to bear arms should be equal to that of an 18-year-old’s, but his arguments fail to challenge the statutory age limit set by this statute. In sum appellant offers no convincing authority supporting his argument that Washington’s limit on childhood firearm possession violates the United States or Washington Constitutions. Accordingly we keep our powder dry on this issue for another day.23

22
Appellant could have made this argument by analyzing the issue under [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Gunwall. For example he might have provided evidence of a historical tradition in Washington of 17-year-olds possessing or using firearms for defense of themselves or the state, or of background legal principles to that effect.[/FONT]​

[/FONT]

 

[BigDave]

why dont you put down your gun because, "there are other effective tools for self defense like our minds". haha, what a load. come on listen to yourself sir. It is you that speaks of gun advocacy all over on these forums...now your talking alternatives to carrying a gun???

It is legal for me to carry open or concealed with out an issue, you not so much.
Keep working on it, maybe by the time your are may age it will change.

Is it in your mind it is all or nothing? We all have or had to work around issues all our lives in a legal manner, you are just starting out, work it out.

 

[dizzle2]

It is legal for me to carry open or concealed with out an issue, you not so much.
Keep working on it, maybe by the time your are may age it will change.

Is it in your mind it is all or nothing? We all have or had to work around issues all our lives in a legal manner, you are just starting out, work it out.

i didn't mean to come off as being rude. but please understand the flaw with this. and 18 year old is a US ADULT citizen and the constitution grants all rights to a US ADULT at age 18, yet the government puts a age cap on the right to bear arms. this is not right nor is it going to stand with me. even if i was 53 or whatever, i would still have a problem with this law the government so blindly and foolishly enacted

 

[BigDave]

i didn't mean to come off as being rude. but please understand the flaw with this. and 18 year old is a US ADULT citizen and the constitution grants all rights to a US ADULT at age 18, yet the government puts a age cap on the right to bear arms. this is not right nor is it going to stand with me. even if i was 53 or whatever, i would still have a problem with this law the government so blindly and foolishly enacted

I do not have an issue with 18 to 20 being afforded the same opportunity as those 21 and over and I see there being two ways going about it.
One being to get the legislature (not pro gun at this point) to change it or to be charged with it and go through the stressful and costly process of changing it as stated in;

State v. Seiyes...

The WA Supreme Court is very open to those under 21 having the right to bear arms. Read the decision, basically, if the appelant would of made the argument those under 21 might be able to carry. Pay particular note to footnote 22 below.

22
Appellant could have made this argument by analyzing the issue under Gunwall. For example he might have provided evidence of a historical tradition in Washington of 17-year-olds possessing or using firearms for defense of themselves or the state, or of background legal principles to that effect.​

I am not the enemy here lol, I just do not want to see people unexpectedly being a test case for another's views.

As I have recently stated if a holster is considered a secure wrapper and being unloaded by all means carry that way, but who will ultimately will decided this, not us I am sure.

 

[amlevin]

Section 9 states, “Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper”. Whoa! So I can take my firearm anywhere that is legal (excluding post officers, schools, jails, etc) as long as it is in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper?

First I would like to compliment you on the work you put into this.

(Even though I am going to say "but" the compliment still stands.)

But as I recall we had a similar discussion based on my question "What constitutes On Your Person". It came from:
-----------------------------------------
RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
-----------------------------------------
It was the consensus that when one was "taking anything with them it was considered carrying". I also asked the question of the "briefcase" which would be similar to your "opaque container" or "lock-box".

Since most felt that the answer to my "scenario" was that I would still be carrying a concealed pistol (notice that the statute does not mention "loaded" or "unloaded", but merely "pistol".

Based on my read of the above, and somewhat bolstered by the answers by others in the thread I started, I would believe you might be cited for unlawful carry of a pistol.

Again, good job on assembling the information and putting forth your argument. I wonder if it would float in court.

 

[.45ACPaddy]

+1 to NavyLT

The key here is connecting the exceptions.

 

[xxx.jakk.xxx]

It wouldn't be concealed and it may bring you more problems with LEOs and surrounding people than a lockbox or pistol case, but you could carry a shorter rifle/ shotgun. Just go for the shortest legally allowed by the state and use that as your carry weapon. Your right to bear rifles/ shotguns hasn't been trampled on like your right to pistols.

If you were to go for a rifle, I'd go for a Bullpup variant with a 16-16.5" barrel. Not sure on the shotguns as the dealer I bought mine from said that the pistol grips required the same age as a pistol. May be true or may have just been an under-educated gun salesman.

 

[OrangeIsTrouble]

It wouldn't be concealed and it may bring you more problems with LEOs and surrounding people than a lockbox or pistol case, but you could carry a shorter rifle/ shotgun. Just go for the shortest legally allowed by the state and use that as your carry weapon. Your right to bear rifles/ shotguns hasn't been trampled on like your right to pistols.

If you were to go for a rifle, I'd go for a Bullpup variant with a 16-16.5" barrel. Not sure on the shotguns as the dealer I bought mine from said that the pistol grips required the same age as a pistol. May be true or may have just been an under-educated gun salesman.

I am not that tall and a rifle with a 16 inch barrel is not going to blend in very well with me. I won't even get to the SBR thing.

 

[END_THE_FED]

I do not have an issue with 18 to 20 being afforded the same opportunity as those 21 and over and I see there being two ways going about it.
One being to get the legislature (not pro gun at this point) to change it or to be charged with it and go through the stressful and costly process of changing it as stated in;
.

There is a third way. Citizen Initiative.
http://www.sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/Initiative%20and%20Referenda%20Manual.pdf

 

[OrangeIsTrouble]

You're right that is another method of my current one does not work. Lawsuit or citizen initiative.


Anyways, bump, just because trolls be hating on my guide.

 

[BigDave]

Anyways, bump, just because trolls be hating on my guide.

Man buck up, a troll by your definition is one that disagrees or has a different view then you!

Cite man Cite.

 

[OrangeIsTrouble]

Where did I say that you were the troll hating on this guide?

Cite man cite.

Thanks for the free bump tho. :dude:

 

[BigDave]

You're right that is another method of my current one does not work. Lawsuit or citizen initiative.


Anyways, bump, just because trolls be hating on my guide.

Please clarify with citing the post, so we know who and what you are referring to.

 

[OrangeIsTrouble]

Please clarify with citing the post, so we know who and what you are referring to.

Why do you want to know? Is it because you feel a little uneasy? Maybe feeling guilty?


Relating back to OC. Today I used .060 in the national forest! OCed M&P in crossdraw serpa lvl 2. Had an XD SC in .40, used the dragon conversion barrel and shot 9mm federal out of it! Friend brought his Kahr in 9mm, Ruger LCP, (now I really don't want one, that thing sucks) and a MP15 (.22). Fun little rifle but had two winchester rounds BLOW UP in the chamber. Scary stuff.

 

[BigDave]

Why do you want to know? Is it because you feel a little uneasy? Maybe feeling guilty?

No worries on my part :lol:Just wanted to see if you would man up with your accusations and we all know now.:lol:

 

[OrangeIsTrouble]

Just because I don't release a bit of info doesn't mean nothing is true... but if you want to man up, and put a face behind your username, let me know, I'll make sure to come out to an OC meet to come see what you look like.

 

[BigDave]

No worries on my part :lol:Just wanted to see if you would man up with your accusations and we all know now.:lol:

Just because I don't release a bit of info doesn't mean nothing is true... but if you want to man up, and put a face behind your username, let me know, I'll make sure to come out to an OC meet to come see what you look like.

Oh Oh :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:Is this a veil threat :lol:, Petty threats, you are acting like a child and do you think this is an appropriate conduct for an juvenile wanting to have firearms rights to be recognized for his age group.

If you are wanting to make a statement, instead of trying to be cleaver ("just because trolls be hating on my guide") step up to the plate and take a swing.