Governor to BAN OC in Executive Branch Buildings

[scouser]

So the governor would deny you access to government by restricting the legal carry of firearms in the state executive offices?

???
Humor me a little here?

Legally armed citzen stopped at the state house for openly carrying a side arm.

LEO: You cant come in here with that sir.
LAC: Why not?
LEO: The governor's EO prohibits that.
LAC: But I am here to testify in a public hearing.
LEO: Your going to have to cover that thing up first.
LAC: Yes, but I do not have a permission slip to cover up.
LEO: Then you will have to go secure it in your vehicle.
LAC: I came on the bus, I have no vehicle to secure it in.

........................ Any way you get the idea. I must confess I am not up to speed on the carry laws in your neck of the woods but it still seems to me this is a fundamental violation of a citizens access to government.

It is very frustrating to see this "do something" rhetoric in action.

~Whitney

Been there, done that, but the offending item was a cellphone when User, Grapeshot, Skidmark, Peter Nap & myself were at the Court of Appeals a few months ago.
The only reply they gave was "you are not coming in here with that" repeated over and over.
That is when you need to have a friend parked in the next building to take it to their car.

 

[solus]

Just some random wallpaper. I wanted something that didn't disturb my screen too much. I don't keep any icons on my desktop anyway.

hummm, speaking of disturbing your screen ~ query since you say you got them at gun shows, are the 'guns save lives' stickers you keep on your monitor and displayed with such obvious valor, considered reminders or kinda like 'notches' showing the number of the antis you talked to at individual gun show(s) and "survived the encounter" recognition type awards?

ipse

 

[solus]

What's that on the screen? The Time Tunnel show?

http://youtu.be/qIQVpXYiTuc

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

and for those that care and looked at the promo, the big piece of equipment 8 sec into the clip that merriweather is standing in front of supposedly working with to control the time machine as well as the other background flashy lights equipment are actual pieces from an an/fsq-7 vacuum tube computer, aka the SAGE: http://www.williamson-labs.com/480_cpu.htm#sage

ipse

 

[skidmark]

Legally armed citzen stopped at the state house for openly carrying a side arm.

Words around here have meaning, and it helps to be clear what word you are meaning to use.

To us Virginians "the statehouse" means the General Assembly building. a) The EO cannot effect anything that goes on there. b) We here have already been through the question of carry there. Apologies for not remembering the Gentleman's name but his words will live forever: "This is the people's house!" [emphasis in the original]

Yes, there are hearings in executive branch buildings and yes this will be a minor dustup for a short period of time until people realize that the courts see making us show our ID and sign in via a visitor's log book is not permitted but will not address this issue except to politely say "Live with it."

Someone could make a fortune in good will by standing outside with a covered box and a poncho - carrier slips the poncho over their head so nobody can see what's going on and feel threatened (eliminating a brandishing complaint), drops their handgun in the box, and goes inside to testify. Reverse on exiting.

(Possibly the first time thinking inside the box solves a problem?)

stay safe.

 

[peter nap]

Words around here have meaning, and it helps to be clear what word you are meaning to use.

To us Virginians "the statehouse" means the General Assembly building. a) The EO cannot effect anything that goes on there. b) We here have already been through the question of carry there. Apologies for not remembering the Gentleman's name but his words will live forever: "This is the people's house!" [emphasis in the original]

Yes, there are hearings in executive branch buildings and yes this will be a minor dustup for a short period of time until people realize that the courts see making us show our ID and sign in via a visitor's log book is not permitted but will not address this issue except to politely say "Live with it."

Someone could make a fortune in good will by standing outside with a covered box and a poncho - carrier slips the poncho over their head so nobody can see what's going on and feel threatened (eliminating a brandishing complaint), drops their handgun in the box, and goes inside to testify. Reverse on exiting.

(Possibly the first time thinking inside the box solves a problem?)

stay safe.

The Gentleman's name is Delegate Todd Gilbert, Skid.

 

[HPmatt]

Thought he was referring to Patrick Henry - but that w/b House of Burgesses...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Grapeshot]

The Gentleman's name is Delegate Todd Gilbert, Skid.

According to my GAB calendar C.Todd Gilbert's birthday was Monday Oct. 19[SUP]th[/SUP].

 

[B. Reddy]

Armed guards coming to DMV offices

What about ABC stores and DMV offices?

This was just posted on Indeed.com today:

https://www.appone.com/maininforeq....3053&Refer=http://www.indeed.com/jobs&B_ID=91

"Armed Security Officer Description

New Horizon Security Services, Inc. is hiring ARMED Security Officers at the Lynchburg and Charlottesville DMV Customer Service Centers. Come join our team of dedicated officers providing the citizens of Virginia with the ultimate in customer service.You would play a vital role in protecting the public while serving as a customer service agent, first responder and crime prevention specialist. "

 

[skidmark]

No big deal - DMV has hired armed security since a long time ago. They mostly go around gathering up clipboards.

sty safe.

 

[TFred]

PVC extensively quoted in this one.

TFred

Prominent Gun Activist Says McAuliffe Can’t Ban Gun Carry in Government Buildings

Snip:

A prominent gun rights activist said Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D.) lacks the legal authority to impose the gun carry ban included in the executive order he issued last week.

Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL), said McAuliffe doesn’t understand Virginia gun laws. “Does he have the authority to do the ban in government buildings? We don’t think he does,” he said.

“The problem that he has is that he’s been given no authority to do such a ban. The General Assembly issues concealed carry permits and they say where you can and can’t carry them. And there’s nothing in there that gives him any authority to say ‘you can’t carry a concealed handgun in this building.’ They have to give him the power to do that and they haven’t given him the power.”

“He doesn’t understand Virginia gun laws. He never has and he never will.”​

 

[skidmark]

Did I miss a paragraph in Civics 101? :uhoh:

Where does it say (other than in the quoted article) that the Legislative Branch (General Assembly) gives the Executive Branch (Governor) it's powers?

:banghead:

And the General Assembly has NOT said where concealed handguns can be carried. The GA has passed laws making it a crime to carry a concealed handgun in certain places or under certain circumstances, and has passed other laws making it a crime to posses a handgun (or other firearm, or other listed or "like" weapons) in certain places or under certain circumstances.

The GA has passed certain laws that ratify the powers and actions of the Governor, and have even passed laws that criminalize the failure of a person to obey the orders and directives of the Governor. The GA has gone so far as to pass a law stating that a Governor's Executive Order has the force of law (Cited in one of my previous posts). As the GA has not specifically said that failing to obey a Governor's order or directive is either a civil offense or a felony, it is by default a misdemeanor. (See previous posts discussing this.)

What the Governor cannot do by either executive order or directive is make one person go back and learn civics; he can order or direct that, for example, that the Department of Education include civics instruction in the school curriculum.

And for the record, I am vehemently opposed to and outraged by the issuance of Executive Order 50.

stay safe.

 

[peter nap]

Did I miss a paragraph in Civics 101? :uhoh:

Where does it say (other than in the quoted article) that the Legislative Branch (General Assembly) gives the Executive Branch (Governor) it's powers?

:banghead:

And the General Assembly has NOT said where concealed handguns can be carried. The GA has passed laws making it a crime to carry a concealed handgun in certain places or under certain circumstances, and has passed other laws making it a crime to posses a handgun (or other firearm, or other listed or "like" weapons) in certain places or under certain circumstances.

The GA has passed certain laws that ratify the powers and actions of the Governor, and have even passed laws that criminalize the failure of a person to obey the orders and directives of the Governor. The GA has gone so far as to pass a law stating that a Governor's Executive Order has the force of law (Cited in one of my previous posts). As the GA has not specifically said that failing to obey a Governor's order or directive is either a civil offense or a felony, it is by default a misdemeanor. (See previous posts discussing this.)

What the Governor cannot do by either executive order or directive is make one person go back and learn civics; he can order or direct that, for example, that the Department of Education include civics instruction in the school curriculum.

And for the record, I am vehemently opposed to and outraged by the issuance of Executive Order 50.

stay safe.

Thank you Skid. I've been scratching my head over when the GA said where chippers could carry.

 

[skidmark]

Thank you Skid. I've been scratching my head over when the GA said where chippers could carry.

IIRC the only place they addressed that was inside their own building. The House has rules (or actually the absence of them) in their clubhouse while the Senate apparently thinks both GUNZ and girls are icky. (And since there are girl Senators nowadays they are stuck keeping out GUNZ.)

stay safe.

 

[wrearick]

Still trying to figure out just how #3 would take place. The GA has jurisdiction over local governments. The best I can figure is they could refuse to enact legislation regarding the Executive Order - or at least parts of it. "universal" background checks, "crime gun" tracing, all of the commissions and studies and the like can be zero-funded in the state budget. The GA might be able to address storage of firearms in state agency parking lots (whether state owned or rented property) and pass legislation that would block HR action for workers who have firearms in parking lots (I would expect to see "secure facilities" exceptions in that). The GA can also declare the sidewalks and other "public spaces" outside state facilities - I just am not able at this time to figure out how they can impact the space inside the plane of the entrance/exit.

Need to bounce some stuff against heads better versed in legislative construction/constitutional law.

stay safe.

Wouldn't the state's preemption apply to the Governor just the same as it does to cities, counties, mayors, etc.?

 

[Grapeshot]

Wouldn't the state's preemption apply to the Governor just the same as it does to cities, counties, mayors, etc.?

No - preemption is a limitation on municipalities not bobble heads.

 

[TFred]

Thank you Skid. I've been scratching my head over when the GA said where chippers could carry.

Well, I am not a lawyer, but... Isn't there some legal construct that basically talks about laws that go into certain specifics, and the assumptions you have to make about the associated non-specifics?

That is a horrible explanation, we need User to translate it.

But basically, since the General Assembly DOES list for us the places where you CANNOT carry a concealed weapon (schools, courthouses, jails, etc.) this would imply that they are in essence saying that it is NOT illegal to carry anywhere else that they have not made illegal. The assumption being that if they wanted to make it illegal to carry in some non-listed area, they would have done so, leaving non-listed areas tacitly legal.

TFred

 

[Citizen]

This was just posted on Indeed.com today:

https://www.appone.com/maininforeq....3053&Refer=http://www.indeed.com/jobs&B_ID=91

"Armed Security Officer Description

New Horizon Security Services, Inc. is hiring ARMED Security Officers at the Lynchburg and Charlottesville DMV Customer Service Centers. Come join our team of dedicated officers providing the citizens of Virginia with the ultimate in customer service.You would play a vital role in protecting the public while serving as a customer service agent, first responder and crime prevention specialist. "

I guess they figure that if we're dumb enough to believe we're customers of the DMV, we're dumb enough not to notice the rest of their contradictions.

 

[TFred]

I guess they figure that if we're dumb enough to believe we're customers of the DMV, we're dumb enough not to notice the rest of their contradictions.

Drifting a little off topic, but this is invaluable to understand the difference between "customers" and "citizens."

Especially useful for those who work in big organizations that have centralized essential support services, the providers of which almost uniformly seem to get a kick out of labeling the people they are supposed to support as "customers." In reality, nothing could be further from the truth!

Customers or Citizens?

TFred

 

[taurusfan]

"restrictions on concealed carry will have to be approved through a regulatory process overseen by the director of the Department of General Services."

So that's what we're waiting for now I guess.

What limitations are there on "restrictions" imposed through administrative, regulatory process?

 

[skidmark]

I know nothing of Virginia law, but ignorance of a subject has never stopped me from pontificating on that subject in the past and since the Ky. subforum has been dead for the last week and a half, I'll just jump in here and see if I can't help solus get you Virginians straightened out. Since davidmcbeth is sleeping(or otherwise absent), solus could use the assistance.

In the Ky. statute

The KY statute is not the Code of Virginia of 1950, as revised, nor is the Constitution of KY the Constitution of VA. You are comparing apples to orangutans and ******* off those who understand that is what you are doing.

stay ssafe.