Farm and Fleet in Oak Creek Posted

[oliverclotheshoff]

nice bill and ted reference

Constructive criticism and with all due respect.

Well thought out letter but you missed one point. The chimp on the receiving end of your letter will have his cranium buried deep. It will not have the time or wherewithal to comprehend your point.

A simple and direct one or two sentence letter is all you need.

Dear Chimp,
In light of your recently posted firearms free environment policy my friends, family, and I will no longer support your establishment.

Thank you for your time,

Bill S. Preston, Esq.

Former lifetime Farm and Filet customer
Member WC,INc founding member
Open Carry member
NRA member
Human Race member


Just my 2 cents.

 

[McX]

a heads up to my brothers, and sisters. i got a link on privacy problems and issues on facebook. i locked down my account on there, and deactivated it. i also locked down my profile, and related's on here. this strangely coincides with a problem my kids have reported to me; when they are home alone, some guy keeps showing up claiming to be an 'independant contractor', and refuses to produce id, nor show any documentation, or stated reason for his being on my property. on my way home tonight i'm picking up no tresspassing signs, and posting them all over my property, and i will keep my firearm even closer to me when i'm home. until i get to the bottom of what is going on my shields are now up! anyone who shows up on my property without my expressed permission, or stated reason, or documentation or i.d. will be subject to detention, and the police will be called.

 

[Flipper]

Take it to the store, and ask them to refund the cash because of the stated policy. I doubt they will, but it will get their attention...

Also, this is ONLY ONE store, might just be a scared manager.

It always seemed to me that they had a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, maybe for insurance purposes. If so, they should re-evaluate and join other retail outlets that take a neutral position by allowing firearm carry in accordance with state law.

Their stores are located in Wisconsin, Iowa & Illinois.

With Jim the Knob as governor of Wisconsin, Daley controlling Illinois, and Iowa's restricted carry permit process, and the Joyce Foundation controlling firearm policy in all three states, one can understand how F&F could have a such a policy without adverse effect on sales. Times are a'changin.

http://www.farmandfleet.com/stores/

 

[protias]

It always seemed to me that they had a "don't ask, don't tell" policy, maybe for insurance purposes. If so, they should re-evaluate and join other retail outlets and take a neutral position by allowing firearm carry in accordance with state law.

Their stores are located in Wisconsin, Iowa & Illinois.

With Jim the Knob as governor of Wisconsin, Daley controlling Illinois, and Iowa's restricted carry permit process, and the Joyce Foundation controlling firearm policy in all three states, one can understand how F&F could have a such a policy without adverse effect on sales. Times are a'changin.

http://www.farmandfleet.com/stores/

Jim Doylet is only in office for a few more days, so there is "hope" yet. Daley will no longer be running Chitcago. IA will be a shall issue state come Jan 1 and you can carry in more places there than you can here.

 

[XDFDE45]

This just burns my backside. I work on 6th St. just off of Drexel and I pass the F&F everyday on the way in and it was always a nice and easy to stop there to pick up salt and whatever on the way to work or even at lunch. Guess I'll be looking at other stores now.

 

[lockman]

The state they respect your right, and request (not demand) that you yield your right in return for nothing. I would carry anyway unless asked. It does not state firearms, just weapons. Will I be asked to leave if I pick up a knife in the store? The knife is just as muck a weapon as a gun. I hate the term weapon, because tools are only weapons when deployed as such.

I will let F&F know my thoughts and will not shop there. Is F&F part of the larger Blaines hardware based in MD?

 

[GlockRDH]

I may have to go to FandF in Baraboo this evening after work...curious if they have a sign up.

 

[xd40arff]

Tractor Supply (TSC) is a good replacement for F&F. I have never had an issue carrying at any TSC store yet.

 

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

I will make contact with some executive level people at Farm and Fleet corporate to offer some information to them in the hope of encouraging them to reconsider their policy and why its a profitable business decision to do so.

In the meantime, a few other general thoughts which may or may not resonate.

First, I would never discourage anyone from taking whatever action they felt was needed in a given situation. NO ONE, other than YOU "owns" your gun rights and ultimately, after your analysis, it goes without saying you will do what you believe is best for the cause and your rights. Before you take action, I would toss in a few things to consider.

First that angry threatening letters should be a very last resort. I totally understand people's anger, but I would offer that the most effective first step is to take a step back and rationalize with stores and companies vs fire off angry threatening letters. A few angry threatening letters... even a few dozen angry threatening letters will likely only reinforce the decision of F&F to prohibit carry in their stores.

You want to let them know you are the sensible law-abiding gun-carrying guy-next-door that they WANT as a customer. Not an angry "gun-toting" activist that they probably don't want in their store anyway. They don't know who you are, they will only form their opinion based upon your letter. Will your letter reflect who you really are? An average law-abiding respectful citizen, or will it come off as something else?

F&F needs to know that their policy offends a vast percentage of their customer base, not just a few fringe activists.

I would offer to always start with rational facts and an optimistic desire to continue to patronize F&F IF they reconsider their policy.

Woodman's changed their policy after some polite calls and letters from people and I believe one local member even stopped by their corporate office. I'm confident the same can occur this time and I don't think we've yet reached a point of resorting to threatening angry letters/boycotts/etc. ymmv.

There ARE dozens of other viable substitutes for Farm and Fleet, so if Farm and Fleet doesn't change their policy, we do have lots of choices.

At this time my suggestion would be that if you want to do something right away, people send polite letters to Farm and Fleet corporate.

Blain's Supply
3507 East Racine Street
Janesville, WI 53546-2320

Let them know that you have patronized their stores for years and if applicable, that you carried when you did so and that there was no issue. People are much more likely to help you out when you ask them to help you, not threaten them and make them defensive. An adversarial situation won't net either party the outcome they want.

Share with them that you want to continue to patronize their store but as a matter of principle won't be able to unless the policy changes.

Share with them that most other national retailers respect the laws of the state they are in so-as to keep the legal debate centered in Madison, not on their policy. Also share with them that as other stores like Lowes, Home Depot, Gander Mountain, Dunhams Sports, Wal-Mart, Woodmans, Pick N Save and numerous others ALL allow carry as state law provides, there are many other options that you will patronize instead ALTHOUGH you would prefer to patronize F&F.

I don't think any of the executives are in this week. Many are on vacation for the holidays so it may be next week before I'm able to reach anyone.

I will of course share any feedback I receive from F&F corporate and depending on the outcome of our discussion, if further action is needed I'll send a mass notice around to membership with an action plan. I'm going to hold off on sending a mass email around to membership until I get a chance to make contact with F&F corporate as I like to be judicious in members time and action and if this can be resolved with a phone call/discussion, I'd rather save people's time and willingness to act for when diplomacy fails and hundreds of letters and phone calls is in order.

Again, I will restate that NO ONE owns the gun rights cause in Wisconsin. Not WCI not the NRA or anyone else. It is an individual right and after people think it through, they have no choice but to do what they feel is best. I would ask as a courtesy that if you decide not to wait and mail a letter now, that if you include a reference to WCI that you would not make threats and respond in anger but rather be professional but principled in your contact.

 

[nevinsb]

You forgot to add "leave your weapons in your vehicle, so they can get stolen."

 

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

You forgot to add "leave your weapons in your vehicle, so they can get stolen."

Farm and Fleet's response to this would be "if you are so worried about them being stolen, leave them at home"

Farm and Fleet cares about their bottom line. Your gun being stolen out of your car does not affect their bottom line. I think the "gun stolen from your car" argument really doesn't carry much weight in this instance. It is indeed a risk, but not easy to document and too easy to be dismissed by F&F.

You shopping elsewhere DOES affect their bottom line. Focus your points to F&F on things that affect their bottom line to be effective.

F&F needs to know that both their customers who DO carry and those who DON'T carry but DO support the right to carry will be offended by the policy. The most effective message will contain information to F&F that demonstrates this.

 

[XDFDE45]

Farm and Fleet's response to this would be "if you are so worried about them being stolen, leave them at home"

Farm and Fleet cares about their bottom line. Your gun being stolen out of your car does not affect their bottom line. I think the "gun stolen from your car" argument really doesn't carry much weight in this instance. It is indeed a risk, but not easy to document and too easy to be dismissed by F&F.

You shopping elsewhere DOES affect their bottom line. Focus your points to F&F on things that affect their bottom line to be effective.

F&F needs to know that both their customers who DO carry and those who DON'T carry but DO support the right to carry will be offended by the policy. The most effective message will contain information to F&F that demonstrates this.

Great point that it will affect their bottom line and THAT is what they are concerned about in the end. It confuses me that a store that has a sporting goods section and that sells ammo would post this.

 

[Flipper]

Great point that it will affect their bottom line and THAT is what they are concerned about in the end. It confuses me that a store that has a sporting goods section and that sells ammo would post this.

I agree with the approach Nik is advising, but they have understand that in small communities, the backbone of their business, it doesn't take much to have a bad business.

 

[Kelevra]

I agree with the approach Nik is advising, but they have understand that in small communities, the backbone of their business, it doesn't take much to have a bad business.

All's well and good but in the grand scheme of things, if we do not make a big enough deal out of this, Sound the alarm, Let every one know, we will not have a concerted effort if we do not spread the word in every way possible. Spending your money elsewhere is the no brainer. Or it should be.

The rest is the nail in their coffin so to speak. We need to be a united front to affectively promote open carry or Constitutional carry everywhere. This needs to be a big deal. It needs public notice. Picketing and TV and RADIO and Print Media need to have something to cover. Give it to them. Explain to those who don't know, why it is a bad thing for them to prevent law abiding citizens from defending themselves.

Give them something. Like how a supposed American business tramples the Constitution and bans Law abiding citizens the right to carry in their business. Yes I get the property rights issue. My point is not about the right they have but the right they are denying honest law abiding citizens while CRIMINALS surreptitiously conceal and carry in their business. Criminals do not obey signs or laws. There is the real no brainer.

They ban your right to defend yourself but have no security guards or defense of any kind to defend you. Just cameras to record your demise. Why are we afraid of telling it like it is. If I were stabbed or shot and lived, I would sue them for putting my life in danger and acting as a accomplice.

The liability should be their's. This may not have been done yet but it will be and some business somewhere will be part and parcel to blame for someone's injury or demise because the prevented that person from defending themselves.

 

[Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman]

I got a call back from Gary Hilt, a Vice-President at Farm and Fleet a few minutes ago.

Gary was nice enough to spend about 1/2 hour on the phone with me discussing the issue and genuinely, he was very receptive and seemed to consider my points vs. being dismissive.

He shared with me some information about how Farm and Fleet came to their policy on a "weapons free environment" (at least weapons free from those who carry legally)

At this time, my personal opinion is that the information Farm and Fleet relied on to come to their policy (input from legal counsel/insurance/anecdotal customer survey) was not as robust and informed as it could have been. I don't think it gave them a true picture of the support that right to carry has. (again just my opinion based on our conversation in addition to considering that SO many other regional and national retailers (Woodmans, Pick n Save, Best Buy, Dunhams Sports, Home Depot, Wal-mart, CULVERS, Starbucks, etc) ALL surely went through a similar exercise and came to a DIFFERENT conclusion They definitely aren't an "anti-gun" organization in principle (just in practice).

Mr. Hilt advised me that he was going to go back to the board over the next 2 weeks (lots of people on vacation this week with the holiday and review their policy)

At the current time, their policy has not changed, but he IS going to review it.

AS SUCH, I think the time is right for all of us to send polite letters and make contact with Farm and Fleet to let them know that their customer base really DOES support the right to carry. Let Farm and Fleet know you prefer to continue to patronize their stores, but cannot in principle as they don't support your right to carry in practice

It was also interesting. Mr. Hilt shared with me that in the 55 year history of their company there has never been an instance IN THEIR STORE of someone being assaulted or needing to defend themselves.

I think as you all drop letters and make polite contact with Farm and Fleet you might offer the knowledge that while no one may have been assaulted IN their store, a person's safety IS in jeopardy walking FROM their store to their car.

Case in point:

http://badgerherald.com/news/2010/12/08/crime_in_brief.php

DECEMBER 8, 2010 LESS THAN A MONTH AGO, RIGHT HERE IN MADISON, WI

ROBBERY

South Stoughton Road

Madison resident Ricky Harris, 17, was arrested Saturday afternoon on multiple charges of battery, strong-armed robbery and disorderly conduct, an MPD report said.

According to the report, Harris flipped a disabled man out of his wheelchair and proceeded to assault the man at the Farm & Fleet parking lot on South Stoughton Road.

When Harris pulled down the victim’s pants during the attack, the victim’s wife tried to intervene. Harris punched the wife numerous times in the head, the report added. Harris took the wife’s money and the man’s cell phone and fled on foot, but was caught and arrested by officers.

Farm and Fleet may be able to claim that in 55 years no one has been assaulted IN their store, but they surely can't claim that no one has been assaulted OUTSIDE their store. Criminals ARE committing crimes in Farm and Fleet parking lots against INNOCENT defenseless people. By prohibiting people from carrying IN their store, they are also making those people defenseless victims IN THEIR PARKING LOT as criminals now CLEARLY know (based on posted signs) that anyone coming from Farm and Fleet will be unarmed. (even after Wisconsin passes concealed carry this year)

PLEASE share this example with Farm and Fleet when you contact them.

Polite letters and contact should be made to:

Blain's Supply, Inc. (corporate office)
3507 East Racine Street
Janesville, WI 53546-2320

or

Blain Supply, Inc.
PO Box 391
Janesville, WI
53547-0391

Blain's Farm and Fleet 24 hour customer care hotline:

1-800-210-2370

electronic contact opportunities: (use customer contact form on this page)

http://www.farmandfleet.com/customer_care/default.aspx

Wisconsin Carry will be sending this information around to all of our members over the next couple of days. Please share with your fellow freedom minded friends/family.

Lets politely share with Farm and Fleet how many of their customers do NOT support their restriction on the right to carry in their stores.

Carry On

 

[anmut]

Nice post Nik - thanks. Letter in the mail.

 

[Flipper]

I hope their "customer care electronic contact form" works better than it did when I used it previously to express my concerns (I was courteous) about about their firearm policy. Not a grunt of acknowledgement in return.

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

emailed this through their contacts page:

I have been a consistent customers in the 10 years I have lived in WI. I open carry my firearm every day wherever I go. I saw recently that several of your stores are posted that I am no longer welcome with my firearm. I hope you understand that the only people who will follow your rules are law abiding citizens. Criminals, those intent on robbing your store will not care that they could be charged with trespassing. One additional misdemeanor will not stop them. Also, the wording of your sign makes no exception for on or off duty law enforcement officers.

Since you are not installing metal detectors that will guarantee that I am not the only one armed, I will no longer be shopping at your stores. I am welcomed everyday by the likes of Wal-Mart, BestBuy, Gander Mountain and many other companies.

I try to buy local and since you are WI owned, you were my 'go to guys', however, I guess national, out of state chains will get my business.

 

[johnny amish]

E-mail and snail mail sent.
The more feed back they recieve the better.
Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Kelevra]

E-mail and snail mail sent.
The more feed back they recieve the better.
Thanks for the heads up.

This is a fantastic development, Kudos to Nik and WCI for handling this in their usual professional manner. I sent my letter earlier this day and the rest of you might just want to do the same. All those who wanted their signature on the letter were included.

We are strong and when we join together, we surely can accomplish great things. I just wanted to say thank you to all who contributed to the letter I sent. More work ahead but this is a good start.

Thanks again Nik for relaying this info. Once I hear that Farm and Fleet indeed has changed their policy to come in line with State law, I will send out a letter to all those who have contacted me or I have notified and let them know of Farm and Fleets change of heart.

We most certainly would like to shop at Farm and Fleet but it leaves a nasty sour taste in my mouth to do so at this time and I am echoing many more check writing, card sliding, cash bearing customers as well.

Thank you to Farm and Fleet for having an open mind.