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Oct 17, 2019
Messages
33


"it is highly likely that many primary Interstate Highways will be converted into turnpikes (toll roads) to help defray this growing expense. "

"Perhaps we need to do as some countries and require people to vote, with some inducement. Full participation I'm sure would be better than the current situation when often less than half the electorate bothers to vote. "

kinda contradictory and communist thinking, isn't it?
Everything is "Communist" to you. That is nuts.

I spoke of Eisenhower, not of interstate construction under subsequent Presidents.

TAXES pay for the interstate highways! Tolls would involve a lot of problems, including extra expense. Taxation is the way a modern government gets things done. If our tax system was fair, meaning the RICH would pay their fair share (which they haven't since 1981), then there would be no problem. Notice that the USA functioned far better pre-Reagan, whereas since his ludicrous policies we've run up massive deficits and suffered increasing social problems.

Clearly Democrats are better for the country than the current crop of ultra-right corporate-shill Republicans.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,383
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Barros Serrano, your posts #12, #14, #15 and #17 clearly demonstrate your ignorance of the truth. I have dealt with government agencies and politicians for over 55 years. The majority are control freaks and they follow your way of thinking. Regan was suckered and controlled by the deep state. He was forced to take Bush as his VP. But, he made it clear that "we are the government and we are to help you" was his desperate attempt to warn the public of their loss of freedom.

The communists were right, we will destroy you from within.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
33
Barros Serrano, your posts #12, #14, #15 and #17 clearly demonstrate your ignorance of the truth. I have dealt with government agencies and politicians for over 55 years. The majority are control freaks and they follow your way of thinking. Regan was suckered and controlled by the deep state. He was forced to take Bush as his VP. But, he made it clear that "we are the government and we are to help you" was his desperate attempt to warn the public of their loss of freedom.

The communists were right, we will destroy you from within.
Aw shucks, I'm "ignorant of the truth". Spoken like a true cult fanatic.

Loss of WHAT freedom exactly? While I think govt policies since 1981 have mostly stunk, due to corporate control (your "deep state" is in fact the corporate boardrooms), I'd love to know which freedoms I've lost.

WHAT communists? PUTIN is trying to destroy us... is Russia communist now? Hardly. In fact it was always about the Russian Empire more than "communism". The USSR was just the Czar in a red dress.

No, most politicians do not follow my way of thinking, because I would abolish corporate lobbyists and their control over Congress.

"We have the best Congress money can buy."---Will Rogers

Those of you on the right harping about deep-state paranoia IGNORE who is really wielding the power: CORPORATIONS" Jefferson warned us about them. I'm taking my cues from Jefferson, not from stale communists.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,383
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Aw shucks, I'm "ignorant of the truth". Spoken like a true cult fanatic.

Loss of WHAT freedom exactly? While I think govt policies since 1981 have mostly stunk, due to corporate control (your "deep state" is in fact the corporate boardrooms), I'd love to know which freedoms I've lost.

WHAT communists? PUTIN is trying to destroy us... is Russia communist now? Hardly. In fact it was always about the Russian Empire more than "communism". The USSR was just the Czar in a red dress.

No, most politicians do not follow my way of thinking, because I would abolish corporate lobbyists and their control over Congress.

"We have the best Congress money can buy."---Will Rogers

Those of you on the right harping about deep-state paranoia IGNORE who is really wielding the power: CORPORATIONS" Jefferson warned us about them. I'm taking my cues from Jefferson, not from stale communists.
Yes, you are ignorant of the truth. You jumping to an accusation of a “cult fanatic” shows that you are the one not having an open mind and choose not to look at the entire picture. How do we know this? Your statement: “Those of you on the right harping about deep-state paranoia IGNORE who is really wielding the power: CORPORATIONS" Jefferson warned us about them. I'm taking my cues from Jefferson, not from stale communists.” Jefferson also warned us of the dangers of the Muslims. Your side seems to embrace sharia law. It appears you are between a rock and a hard spot.

However, if you actually paid close attention, you would have clearly recognized I don’t have trust in either party. There is not much difference between an one world order (government or otherwise), Military–industrial complex or any group/organization that attempts to undermine the constitution in any way, shape or form. That includes supreme court justices.

You than say: “No, most politicians do not follow my way of thinking, because I would abolish corporate lobbyists and their control over Congress.” How about politicians not taking those bribes, also known as political donations? Why not make taking the bribe illegal?

We don’t see eye to eye and I don’t think we will.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
33
Yes, you are ignorant of the truth. You jumping to an accusation of a “cult fanatic” shows that you are the one not having an open mind and choose not to look at the entire picture. How do we know this? Your statement: “Those of you on the right harping about deep-state paranoia IGNORE who is really wielding the power: CORPORATIONS" Jefferson warned us about them. I'm taking my cues from Jefferson, not from stale communists.” Jefferson also warned us of the dangers of the Muslims. Your side seems to embrace sharia law. It appears you are between a rock and a hard spot.

However, if you actually paid close attention, you would have clearly recognized I don’t have trust in either party. There is not much difference between an one world order (government or otherwise), Military–industrial complex or any group/organization that attempts to undermine the constitution in any way, shape or form. That includes supreme court justices.

You than say: “No, most politicians do not follow my way of thinking, because I would abolish corporate lobbyists and their control over Congress.” How about politicians not taking those bribes, also known as political donations? Why not make taking the bribe illegal?

We don’t see eye to eye and I don’t think we will.
Actually I do agree with you on your last proposal, that the taking (as well as the offering) of bribes to politicians be illegal. That is precisely what I'd like to see.

Nope, nobody I know likes anything about sharia, and I am well aware of Jefferson's interactions with the Moors
Yes, you are ignorant of the truth. You jumping to an accusation of a “cult fanatic” shows that you are the one not having an open mind and choose not to look at the entire picture. How do we know this? Your statement: “Those of you on the right harping about deep-state paranoia IGNORE who is really wielding the power: CORPORATIONS" Jefferson warned us about them. I'm taking my cues from Jefferson, not from stale communists.” Jefferson also warned us of the dangers of the Muslims. Your side seems to embrace sharia law. It appears you are between a rock and a hard spot.

However, if you actually paid close attention, you would have clearly recognized I don’t have trust in either party. There is not much difference between an one world order (government or otherwise), Military–industrial complex or any group/organization that attempts to undermine the constitution in any way, shape or form. That includes supreme court justices.

You than say: “No, most politicians do not follow my way of thinking, because I would abolish corporate lobbyists and their control over Congress.” How about politicians not taking those bribes, also known as political donations? Why not make taking the bribe illegal?

We don’t see eye to eye and I don’t think we will.
Well I agree with your final proposal that the bribe-taking be made illegal! Amen to that!

I'd love for you to explain how the power in this country and the world is not vested in corporations. Who then is in power? I really don't see anyone else. It can't be government, since apparently we agree that politicians are bought by corporate money.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
12,417
Location
White Oak Plantation
Sorry, but this is hyperbole. No, they are not communists. There are very few communists in this country. In fact, communism is virtually dead in the world. N Korea can call itself communist, but in fact is just an insane asylum run by the craziest inmate.

Progressivism[sic] and socialism are not communism. Every other developed nation is demosocialist[sic]. So are you condemning Germany, UK, France, New Zealand, Canada, Israel, Japan, Spain, Belgium, Denmark, etc., as "communist"?

There are plenty of people advocating gun control who are moderate Democrats. As USA politics has been pushed rightward since Reagan, many Republicans nowadays think a centrist is a commie. Bulldooky[sic]!

And I'd have to observe that those who think Democrats are commies are generally of fascist ideology themselves. This is a democratic society, and if someone advocates for a minimum wage increase or environmental protection, they are not communists!

The issue of gun control, like any other, needs to be discussed rationally. I am basically a Kennedy Democrat, hate Trump, hated Reagan, and support the Constitution, which includes my right to keep and bear arms, which I practice. I also hate communism, as I have studied it and know very well what an abysmal disaster was the USSR. I could give you complex theoretical reasons why Marx screwed up, and why Marxist-Leninism is doomed to fail (as it has already done).

Reagan signed the assault weapons ban. Was he a communist?
I suspect that you have little in the way of first hand knowledge of what communism and socialism actually are. I also suspect that your disdain for The Founder's view on our natural rights goes beyond the words you have posted here on OCDO.

The bold above clearly indicates that your are one of those liberals who are fine with government permission to exercise a enumerated right. Specifically, none of those countries respect our human right to lawful SD (the 2A) in the manner we choose.

Your reference to heavy weapons?...thanks for the liberal perspective on "gun rights."

I also suspect that you do not devote much time to the concept of individual liberty...I quote Thomas Jefferson and Blackstone for one very singular reason...which is intentionally rejected by you.

I do not subscribe to liberals "ignorance" where individual liberties are concerned. Liberals know exactly what individual liberty is and consciously reject the premise and work diligently to undermine individual liberty. Your own words are proof of my contentions.

I vote republican because they are not democrats. I do not seek perfection from my elected reps, I seek constitutional compliance from my elected reps...and there too is no perfection. But I know exactly what I will get from a liberals...and yes, all democrats are liberals...the truth of this fact is self-evident to those who seek to restore our individual liberties.

I quote Nightmare because that is a very astute observation on our current political climate...I should have thought of that one myself...give credit where credit is due.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
33
I suspect that you have little in the way of first hand knowledge of what communism and socialism actually are. I also suspect that your disdain for The Founder's view on our natural rights goes beyond the words you have posted here on OCDO.

The bold above clearly indicates that your are one of those liberals who are fine with government permission to exercise a enumerated right. Specifically, none of those countries respect our human right to lawful SD (the 2A) in the manner we choose.

Your reference to heavy weapons?...thanks for the liberal perspective on "gun rights."

I also suspect that you do not devote much time to the concept of individual liberty...I quote Thomas Jefferson and Blackstone for one very singular reason...which is intentionally rejected by you.

I do not subscribe to liberals "ignorance" where individual liberties are concerned. Liberals know exactly what individual liberty is and consciously reject the premise and work diligently to undermine individual liberty. Your own words are proof of my contentions.

I vote republican because they are not democrats. I do not seek perfection from my elected reps, I seek constitutional compliance from my elected reps...and there too is no perfection. But I know exactly what I will get from a liberals...and yes, all democrats are liberals...the truth of this fact is self-evident to those who seek to restore our individual liberties.
You're not paying attention. The socialism of which I speak is in Europe. I used to live in Spain, and have been in other countries. I have experienced those demosocialist societies. They are better than the USA in most aspects. You still pretend that "socialism" means communism, but it does not. Medicare is socialism. Who feels oppressed by that?

The gun laws in many countries are too stringent, I'll agree with that, but otherwise, people are free there and the standard of living is higher than in the USA. I'm talking about, again, UK, France, Denmark, Israel, NZ, Canada, etc., not the USSR, N Korea, Cuba. Communism does not work economically at any acceptable level and has always involved totalitarianism. Nope, I'm from the USA and want democracy and freedom, and so do the other developed nations who are demosocialist. Certainly you are not claiming that Germany and France are communist?
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
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Messages
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Location
here nc
Nice to see you do not practice what you preach...

New & want to exchange ideas yet already in the name calling mode...outstanding!

further decided to show how closed minded in such a short period of time...

glad the founding fathers, with the exception of burr/hamilton, kept an open minds to everyones ideas
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
33
Nice to see you do not practice what you preach...

New & want to exchange ideas yet already in the name calling...

further decided to show how closed minded in such a short period of time...

glad the founding fathers, with the exception of burr/hamilton, kept an open minds to everyones ideas
What are you rambling about? I'm discussing real issues a'plenty.

At the time of the Founding Fathers, this same left-right divide existed. Back then, I'd have been in Jefferson's camp, not Hamilton's.

And I'd have been a good shot.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,277
Location
northern wis
I'm in Virginia and think this issue can be addressed without the hyperbole I see here.

I have a concealed carry permit in VA and am among those who are very law-abiding and will never shoot ANYONE except in self-defense or to prevent someone else from being shot by a criminal or terrorist.

Nonetheless, we cannot allow the current situation to continue where mentally unhinged people show up in public places with huge magazines spraying bullets hither and yon. Something has to be done to weed out the dubious people from acquiring such weapons.

Surely in this country we have enough intelligence to accomplish this without retreating into our dysfunctionally polarized stances as always happens these days.

I really believe that the courts would declare un-Constitutional any attempt to confiscate my pistols or rifles, possession of which is guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment, clearly. However, where does this right end? With the AK? Bazookas? Heavy artillery? Tanks? I know there has to be a line drawn somewhere, which will not infringe on our rights as hunters, collectors, self-defenders and so on.

Hysterical caterwauling about gun-grabbing and commies and fascists and so on gets us nowhere.
Oh please if you think you can bargain with the anti's and win your sadly mistaken.

The only bargaining they do is for their benefit.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,417
Location
White Oak Plantation
You're not paying attention. The socialism of which I speak is in Europe. I used to live in Spain, and have been in other countries. I have experienced those demosocialist[sic] societies. They are better than the USA in most aspects. You still pretend that "socialism" means communism, but it does not. Medicare is socialism. Who feels oppressed by that?

The gun laws in many countries are too stringent, I'll agree with that, but otherwise, people are free there and the standard of living is higher than in the USA. I'm talking about, again, UK, France, Denmark, Israel, NZ, Canada, etc., not the USSR, N Korea, Cuba. Communism does not work economically at any acceptable level and has always involved totalitarianism. Nope, I'm from the USA and want democracy and freedom, and so do the other developed nations who are demosocialist[sic]. Certainly you are not claiming that Germany and France are communist?
It is you who intentionally rejects the self evident truths that the US was founded on...not surprising.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...or, more accurately, life, liberty, and property.

No other nation state on this earth respects these three tenants of human existence in writing. Making these three tenants the foundation of our laws...implementation of the law notwithstanding...is how The Founders guaranteed the survival of America for their posterity.

Individual liberty is the foundation that our society is built upon. Liberals do not accept this self evident truth and work to undermine our individual liberty.

I too have traveled to many countries, Asia, Asian Sub-Continent (India), Africa, the Middle East, South America and their "standard of living" is far below that of the US. Even the "respected" Europeans have a standard of living that is lacking when compared to the US.

The fundamental truth is that no other nation state on earth respects life, liberty, and property as they are respected here in the US...Terry v. Ohio and Kelo v. New London notwithstanding.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,383
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Our poor have big screen TVs and cell phones. The "poor" living on the streets usually choose to do so or have mental disabilities. The states took on the responsibility for caring for the mental disadvantaged and did such a great job they had to shut down the majority of their facilities and dump them on the streets. The majority of people in the country don't realize how good they got it. But that does mean they are free as our founding fathers envisioned.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
33
Oh please if you think you can bargain with the anti's and win your sadly mistaken.

The only bargaining they do is for their benefit.
For "their" benefit? I think they are thinking about all the victims of mass shootings, an issue which concerns me as well. Doing nothing in response to this epidemic is not an option.

I don't believe that "they" can't be reasoned with. But, tell me, are the pro-gun contingents willing to talk, to be reasonable? With both sides exhibiting intransigence, nothing will be accomplished.

This is like most issues today in this country, and I think whichever side one is on on whichever issue, we have to find a way to communicate, cooperate and compromise. Just look at Congress! They get NOTHING done in the current climate. This has to change, for everyone's benefit.

I'd bet productive conversations could occur if it were set up so that both sides could talk, rather than scream at each other. I'm not saying this only in the context of the 2nd-A issues, but regarding everything.

Otherwise, what shall we do? Have another civil war? Oh that would be fun...
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
33
It is you who intentionally rejects the self evident truths that the US was founded on...not surprising.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness...or, more accurately, life, liberty, and property.

No other nation state on this earth respects these three tenants of human existence in writing. Making these three tenants the foundation of our laws...implementation of the law notwithstanding...is how The Founders guaranteed the survival of America for their posterity.

Individual liberty is the foundation that our society is built upon. Liberals do not accept this self evident truth and work to undermine our individual liberty.

I too have traveled to many countries, Asia, Asian Sub-Continent (India), Africa, the Middle East, South America and their "standard of living" is far below that of the US. Even the "respected" Europeans have a standard of living that is lacking when compared to the US.

The fundamental truth is that no other nation state on earth respects life, liberty, and property as they are respected here in the US...Terry v. Ohio and Kelo v. New London notwithstanding.
You just claimed I reject USA principles. You deserve an obscene response for that insult, but I'll try to be civil, considering that likely you're just too fanatic to use reason.

The line is "...and pursuit of happiness". You just changed the words, while claiming I reject basic principles! If the founders meant "property", they would have said so. Thanks, but I don't think we need you to change the Constitution of Declaration for us.

No, your screed about liberals is ultra-right nonsense. Talk like that makes you seem like far more a danger to our freedom than any liberal. Oh you name poorer countries, but no, other developed nations have a higher standard of living than we do. All the stats confirm this. In the USA we have to work harder, are more stressed, receive fewer benefits, and end up with less money left over after we've paid for all the things covered by their higher taxes. I lived in Europe and did observe any of this "lacking" of which you speak.

No, that jingoistic nonsense that the USA is uniquely wonderful is cliched and not supported by the facts.

We just had another school shooting. Interesting that that sort of thing is not rampantly occurring in those other developed nations as it does here. We have a far higher % of the population incarcerated (so are USA people more criminally-inclined than in other countries?). We have a huge areas with rampant poverty such as you do not find in those countries. We have an unhappy and angry populace.

Do some research on those countries and then tell me how terrible they are. Take your pick: Canada, France, Japan, NZ, Denmark, UK, Germany.

We are backwards, and the cause is Reaganomics and all the misguided corporate-serving policies enacted since by the corporate-shill faux-conservatives who now comprise the GOP, along with the bought-and-sold Democrats who go along with them.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,383
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
For "their" benefit? I think they are thinking about all the victims of mass shootings, an issue which concerns me as well. Doing nothing in response to this epidemic is not an option.

I don't believe that "they" can't be reasoned with. But, tell me, are the pro-gun contingents willing to talk, to be reasonable? With both sides exhibiting intransigence, nothing will be accomplished.

This is like most issues today in this country, and I think whichever side one is on on whichever issue, we have to find a way to communicate, cooperate and compromise. Just look at Congress! They get NOTHING done in the current climate. This has to change, for everyone's benefit.

I'd bet productive conversations could occur if it were set up so that both sides could talk, rather than scream at each other. I'm not saying this only in the context of the 2nd-A issues, but regarding everything.

Otherwise, what shall we do? Have another civil war? Oh that would be fun...
"I don't believe that "they" can't be reasoned with." and there is where your ignorance shines through.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
33
"I don't believe that "they" can't be reasoned with." and there is where your ignorance shines through.
Thanks for the cheap adolescent insult, which only indicates your inability to construct a cogent argument. And you prove my point... pro-gun just as much if not more than pro-control folks will not discuss reasonably, only retreat to their corner and sling feces.

Like a simian.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,383
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Thanks for the cheap adolescent insult, which only indicates your inability to construct a cogent argument. And you prove my point... pro-gun just as much if not more than pro-control folks will not discuss reasonably, only retreat to their corner and sling feces.

Like a simian.
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
33

your true color is shining through
Yeah, that's another empty remark. Your true colors seem to be those of an entrenched fanatic who can't listen to anything not expressed in your favorite key words and in total agreement with your dogma.

That's not how democracy works. To you anyone who disagrees with anything you think is probably a "communist". That thinking isn't even worth arguing with.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,778
Location
here nc
You just claimed I reject USA principles. You deserve an obscene response for that insult, but I'll try to be civil, considering that likely you're just too fanatic to use reason.

The line is "...and pursuit of happiness". You just changed the words, while claiming I reject basic principles! If the founders meant "property", they would have said so. Thanks, but I don't think we need you to change the Constitution of Declaration for us.

No, your screed about liberals is ultra-right nonsense. Talk like that makes you seem like far more a danger to our freedom than any liberal. Oh you name poorer countries, but no, other developed nations have a higher standard of living than we do. All the stats confirm this. In the USA we have to work harder, are more stressed, receive fewer benefits, and end up with less money left over after we've paid for all the things covered by their higher taxes. I lived in Europe and did observe any of this "lacking" of which you speak.

No, that jingoistic nonsense that the USA is uniquely wonderful is cliched and not supported by the facts.

We just had another school shooting. Interesting that that sort of thing is not rampantly occurring in those other developed nations as it does here. We have a far higher % of the population incarcerated (so are USA people more criminally-inclined than in other countries?). We have a huge areas with rampant poverty such as you do not find in those countries. We have an unhappy and angry populace.

Do some research on those countries and then tell me how terrible they are. Take your pick: Canada, France, Japan, NZ, Denmark, UK, Germany.

We are backwards, and the cause is Reaganomics and all the misguided corporate-serving policies enacted since by the corporate-shill faux-conservatives who now comprise the GOP, along with the bought-and-sold Democrats who go along with them.
hummm...where to begin..
1. Declaration of Independence quote,
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. unquote

2. I pick India, Pakistan, Iran, Iran, the rest of the *stans associated with the Soviet bloc...you were saying?

3. This is civil.... ”You deserve an obscene response for that insult...” so much for reasoned discourse...
 
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