The Tale of Henrico - Chapter 2 in a Ferry Tale - Arrested for following the law

[roscoe13]

Rant is NOT over :exclaim:

Nor should it be

Roscoe

 

[TFred]

Would it be out of line to maybe use this thread to describe what expenses a person facing this kind of legal battle needs to consider? "Expensive" is about all I know. What are the unforeseen costs, those a person unfamiliar with the process might face?

For example, in this case, are attorney fees being covered by donations, or are donations for legal fees?

Is there a ballpark round dollar number that one might be faced with if they found themselves in a similar situation?

While I don't think anyone has ever published a number (and that's fine) you might get an answer to your question if you go back and read through the Surry Part 1 thread(s). The running account there details the MANY MANY actions that required funds, most of which were due to the prosecutors of the matter trying their very best to drag it out long and expensive enough to convince the victim to give up, roll over, take the punishment and go away. Sadly, we must realize that in these cases of malicious prosecution, we end up paying for BOTH sides, as taxpayers for the prosecution, as private citizens for the victim's defense. And yes, that stinks bad.

I would expect no less unprofessional behavior to be seen in this case, so just as many resources will be needed here as well, IMHO.

One example that comes to mind in the Surry case that many wouldn't think of: A court recorder had to be hired to capture the details of each court appearance. In most lower level cases, this is not a standard thing, so if one party wishes to have the record saved for future reference, they must hire the means to do so.

As we learned from Surry 1, these things aren't cheap.

TFred

 

[Fuller Malarkey]

While I don't think anyone has ever published a number (and that's fine) you might get an answer to your question if you go back and read through the Surry Part 1 thread(s). The running account there details the MANY MANY actions that required funds, most of which were due to the prosecutors of the matter trying their very best to drag it out long and expensive enough to convince the victim to give up, roll over, take the punishment and go away. Sadly, we must realize that in these cases of malicious prosecution, we end up paying for BOTH sides, as taxpayers for the prosecution, as private citizens for the victim's defense. And yes, that stinks bad.

I would expect no less unprofessional behavior to be seen in this case, so just as many resources will be needed here as well, IMHO.

One example that comes to mind in the Surry case that many wouldn't think of: A court recorder had to be hired to capture the details of each court appearance. In most lower level cases, this is not a standard thing, so if one party wishes to have the record saved for future reference, they must hire the means to do so.

As we learned from Surry 1, these things aren't cheap.

TFred

I don't doubt I'd benefit from reading the Surry thread. At the moment, there are 8,101 threads in the Virginia subforum and the search feature here absolutely sucks. And I'm dealing with the reality the sand in my hourglass of life has more sand on the bottom side than on the top. Could you help me with a link?

Truly, I'm not trying to derail any good works here. I see donations coming in, I am somewhat adept with basic arithmetic, I, and I'd have to suppose there are others like me, have no idea if $40,000 needs to be raised or $4,000.

 

[roscoe13]

. . . I, and I'd have to suppose there are others like me, have no idea if $40,000 needs to be raised or $4,000.

And, really, neither do the rest of us. $4k MIGHT be enough if EVERYTIHNG swings your way, $40k might not be enough if things go poorly....

Roscoe

 

[rcawdor57]

Are You Saying It Is Illegal To Move A Firearm From One Place To Another?

I thought Virginia was the bedrock of freedom when it came to the 2nd Amendment. I guess I was incorrect! So it is illegal to move a firearm from one spot to another inside your vehicle in Virginia? If so, that is just plain nuts.

I'm in for helping a fellow brother in arms. My check will go out with the mail in the morning!

There has to be some way to sue the heck out of those that abuse their positions and make them pay personally...not the state, not the county, not the city....not the taxpayers! Make these corrupt cops pay personally for what they do.

 

[mpg9999]

Donated. Looking forward to hearing more information, like how did they even know it was him? Did the bus driver know him, or just get a license plate number and description? But if he didn't investigate, how he have known who was driving the car?

 

[TFred]

I don't doubt I'd benefit from reading the Surry thread. At the moment, there are 8,101 threads in the Virginia subforum and the search feature here absolutely sucks. And I'm dealing with the reality the sand in my hourglass of life has more sand on the bottom side than on the top. Could you help me with a link?

Truly, I'm not trying to derail any good works here. I see donations coming in, I am somewhat adept with basic arithmetic, I, and I'd have to suppose there are others like me, have no idea if $40,000 needs to be raised or $4,000.

I think everyone will agree with you on that point!

Google is not too bad with their site search feature.

Here are probably the four primary threads, I believe in order, but probably quite a bit of overlap as well:

** Legal Defense fund for Skidmark **
Surry Beware the Ides of March - 3/15/2011 version
Surry Saga (Skidmark) amended to 4/19/11 !!!!
Skidmark proceeding to trial - Sept 13th, 2011

The last one does finally report on the end resolution, on the criminal side, at least.

One final note, from the day of this incident to the end of the criminal trial, took the better part of a year... at least 10 months, if I'm not mistaken. That's a lot of hours on the clock for a legal team, and this was a "simple" case of a trumped up charge of brandishing.

TFred

 

[Grapeshot]

I don't doubt I'd benefit from reading the Surry thread. At the moment, there are 8,101 threads in the Virginia subforum and the search feature here absolutely sucks. And I'm dealing with the reality the sand in my hourglass of life has more sand on the bottom side than on the top. Could you help me with a link?

--snip--

Lay in a [strike]large[/strike] huge supply of popcorn and plenty of liquid refreshment.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...o-far-away-A-Ferry-tale&highlight=surry+trial

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...to-trial-Sept-13th-2011&highlight=surry+trial

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...se-fund-for-Skidmark-**&highlight=surry+trial

 

[roscoe13]

Could you help me with a link?

Once-upon-a-time-in-a-land-not-too-far-away-A-Ferry-tale

 

[Fuller Malarkey]

I think everyone will agree with you on that point!

Google is not too bad with their site search feature.

Here are probably the four primary threads, I believe in order, but probably quite a bit of overlap as well:

** Legal Defense fund for Skidmark **
Surry Beware the Ides of March - 3/15/2011 version
Surry Saga (Skidmark) amended to 4/19/11 !!!!
Skidmark proceeding to trial - Sept 13th, 2011

The last one does finally report on the end resolution, on the criminal side, at least.

One final note, from the day of this incident to the end of the criminal trial, took the better part of a year... at least 10 months, if I'm not mistaken. That's a lot of hours on the clock for a legal team, and this was a "simple" case of a trumped up charge of brandishing.

TFred

Thanks for the links. I'm sure it will help spell out what these things entail.

ETA: Sorry to bring so much ignorance to the discussion. I have plenty of what I consider indications of an ill spent youth. Fortunately, the few times I've been charged with anything other than a driving infraction I've prevailed or charges were dismissed. My legal experience is limited to "pay the lawyer, go to court, thank the lawyer and move on".

 

[Grapeshot]

Thanks for the links. I'm sure it will help spell out what these things entail.

Forgot to recommend the duct tape - industrial grade will work best!

 

[skidmark]

Would it be out of line to maybe use this thread to describe what expenses a person facing this kind of legal battle needs to consider? "Expensive" is about all I know. What are the unforeseen costs, those a person unfamiliar with the process might face?

For example, in this case, are attorney fees being covered by donations, or are donations for legal fees?

Is there a ballpark round dollar number that one might be faced with if they found themselves in a similar situation?

Let someone with just a bit of experience try and answer your question.

First there is the flat fee an attorney charges for representing the defendant. They do not know how long that might take or how much brainpower will be needed to research the applicable laws, draw up motions, and other sundry stuff, along with the time taken to communicate with their client, let alone with various other players.

Attorneys have "expenses" that are not covered by their flat fee. Filing paperwork involves a fee. Travelling involves costs for gas and meals - and more if an overnight stay is involved. Attorneys travel for meetings with clients or other persons as well as to appear in court. Getting subpeonas served costs - either a fee to the Sheriff or to a private process server.

Copying court records costs - it should not but it does.

As has been mentioned, because the General District Court is not a "court of record" it is often necessary/prudent to have a court reporter record everything (usually two voice recorders plus that steno machine) just in case there is an appeal. They get paid for recording, cross-checking the recordings against the steno machine, and then transcribing everything. Plus gas and meals as appropriate.

Then there is the tremendous amount of legwork involved in fact checking, dirt digging, and other things needed to be done to be ready to face the prosecution. At this point Scouser has been checked, cross-checked, and vetted to a degree much greater than, say, a proposed Presidential appointee. (OK, that was a cheap shot. But you get the idea. We do not want anything to blow up in our face, so we do the work right the first time - it takes time and effort.)

There is a bunch more, but I think this will give you an idea of just how big a campaign is mounted to defend someone from spurious, malicious, and false accusations.

In Ferry Tale #1 and #2 there is a cadre of volunteers who do things to eliminate/reduce costs where that can be done. They work in the background and expect no reward - not even a pat on the head. One or two of them may be doing what they do in a feeble attempt to counterbalance some of their sins. Unsung as they are, they are part of The Guys in White Hats.

In spite of all this, a donation of even $1.00 is helpful and meaningful. Add up enough $1.00s and there might be enough so that drastic measures are not needed to pay for all this.

stay safe.

 

[Fuller Malarkey]

Let someone with just a bit of experience try and answer your question.

First there is the flat fee an attorney charges for representing the defendant. They do not know how long that might take or how much brainpower will be needed to research the applicable laws, draw up motions, and other sundry stuff, along with the time taken to communicate with their client, let alone with various other players.

Attorneys have "expenses" that are not covered by their flat fee. Filing paperwork involves a fee. Travelling involves costs for gas and meals - and more if an overnight stay is involved. Attorneys travel for meetings with clients or other persons as well as to appear in court. Getting subpeonas served costs - either a fee to the Sheriff or to a private process server.

Copying court records costs - it should not but it does.

As has been mentioned, because the General District Court is not a "court of record" it is often necessary/prudent to have a court reporter record everything (usually two voice recorders plus that steno machine) just in case there is an appeal. They get paid for recording, cross-checking the recordings against the steno machine, and then transcribing everything. Plus gas and meals as appropriate.

Then there is the tremendous amount of legwork involved in fact checking, dirt digging, and other things needed to be done to be ready to face the prosecution. At this point Scouser has been checked, cross-checked, and vetted to a degree much greater than, say, a proposed Presidential appointee. (OK, that was a cheap shot. But you get the idea. We do not want anything to blow up in our face, so we do the work right the first time - it takes time and effort.)

There is a bunch more, but I think this will give you an idea of just how big a campaign is mounted to defend someone from spurious, malicious, and false accusations.

In Ferry Tale #1 and #2 there is a cadre of volunteers who do things to eliminate/reduce costs where that can be done. They work in the background and expect no reward - not even a pat on the head. One or two of them may be doing what they do in a feeble attempt to counterbalance some of their sins. Unsung as they are, they are part of The Guys in White Hats.

In spite of all this, a donation of even $1.00 is helpful and meaningful. Add up enough $1.00s and there might be enough so that drastic measures are not needed to pay for all this.

stay safe.

That's what I was looking for. "This is where the money goes". Now. I understand some answers to some questions in the current situation could be viewed by the wrong eyes. Nothing to be gained by tipping the hand, so to speak.

As I wade through the links you provided, I'll have more questions.....

 

[Grapeshot]

-snipped--

There has to be some way to sue the heck out of those that abuse their positions and make them pay personally...not the state, not the county, not the city....not the taxpayers! Make these corrupt cops pay personally for what they do.

Immunity can be pierced. There are several things happening in this area that will quite likely accomplish that end. The length of the pants do not make the man, nor where he was born. I speak of bears and buzzards and giraffes too.

 

[peter nap]

Immunity can be pierced. There are several things happening in this area that will quite likely accomplish that end. The length of the pants do not make the man, nor where he was born. I speak of bears and buzzards and giraffes too.

And the things that needed to be filed today were.

 

[Grapeshot]

And the things that needed to be filed today were.

[h=3]这是一个好[/h]

 

[marshaul]

[h=3]这是一个好[/h]

大象爆炸式的拉肚子

 

[Grapeshot]

大象爆炸式的拉肚子

會認為，這將是驢。

你攜帶你的槍給大家看嗎？

希望這給縣官員灼熱。

 

[crazydude6030]

會認為，這將是驢。

你攜帶你的槍給大家看嗎？

希望這給縣官員灼熱。

Did I miss something?

 

[palerider116]

Did I miss something?

Godzilla attacked Henrico.