Elkad
Regular Member
Ford added a lockout timer on the recent models (starting in 09?). 1 min delay every 35 bad keypresses - adding 100 minutes to the maximum attack time.
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The New Breed of LEO's
- Thread starter Sheriff
- Start date
Ford added a lockout timer on the recent models (starting in 09?). 1 min delay every 35 bad keypresses - adding 100 minutes to the maximum attack time.
SouthernBoy
Regular Member
Sheriff and skidmark;
The onus is on me. I jumped the gun and was thinking not of an arrest but if the officer asked you to step out of your vehicle. In such a case, it is wise to make sure your windows are closed and then lock the car when you close the door.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, gentlemen.
The onus is on me. I jumped the gun and was thinking not of an arrest but if the officer asked you to step out of your vehicle. In such a case, it is wise to make sure your windows are closed and then lock the car when you close the door.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, gentlemen.
Roverhound
Regular Member
The roadside test is designed to be failed. The officer can keep making request until you are failed on his judgement.
Be very careful on requesting a breathalyzer, they are notorious for false readings. Do a little research and you'll see.
Be very careful on requesting a breathalyzer, they are notorious for false readings. Do a little research and you'll see.
OC for ME
Regular Member
Just today? Or ever, even just once.....maybe? Far more than they (cops) would likely care to admit, me thinks.
It's just that they will/would/did violate a citizen's rights just a teeny tiny bit, all done in the name of justice and 'preserving the peace'. I will opine that the vast majority of 'peace officers' fall into the just a teeny tiny bit category, just 'enough rights violating' to still be able to sleep at night.....but not one step further towards the 'dark side'.....obviously. Just as there are a untold number of 'good encounters' there are likely just as many untold 'not so good' encounters. But, getting to go on about our business after a "consensual contact" is considered a win for OC.....isn't it?
Ya think! But, if your rights are violated just a teeny tiny bit for the greater good, mind you, is that OK? I will take the liberty to remind folks that making a big deal out the teeny tiniest of rights violations may lead any given cop and every one of his cop buddies to think badly of the OC community, because we made a stink over a teeny tiny thing.
Do all cops have the well-being of our rights foremost in their minds? I submit that somewhere after their personal safety, first and foremost, and then sometime after many other things relating to their job security, our rights may finally be encountered on their mental check list during a contact.
When a cop preemptively acts on the behalf of the 'psychological well-being' of a yet to be manifested slight to the 'unarmed citizenry's sensibilities', over the enumerated rights of the lawful OCer. No matter how teeny tiny the enumerated right may be, that cop is not a 'good' cop.
As usual
New breed of cop? Give me a break. So you first assert there is some new breed of crappy cops out there by generalizing all new officers and calling them clones. Then it's indicated all the cops are dumb and can't make decision. Further it's said that small cops are scared and would violate rights out of fear? This is too entertaining not to read ha.
Dumb cops? In the past decade most agencies require (or only hire) candidates with college degrees. Departments now require a ton of legal and tactical training. This doesn't mean all cops are smart, but generalizing them all as dumb is inaccurate and without basis.
So small cops or nerdy cops will violate rights because they are afraid of large or gun toting people? Come on now, so all cops can only be muscleheads? How about tax payer money going for a large weightroom and paying officers to lift? Guess no female cops should ever be allowed on the street since their not as strong and surely will violate rights out of fear? manny pacquiao is a small guy, guess he can't be a cop. Hey smart guy, you should be a cop just for a year. You will see how many people want to fight and or resist your lawful arrests. Cops go hands on routinely. I can't tell you how many people I've had to fight in this job, most high on drugs or drunk. Pcp is coming back. So your assumption cops aren't use to confrontations is ridiculous.
There are good cops and bad cops as there are good doctors and bad doctors. Since cops are human there will always be some bad apples or bad decisions made. I think the major issues is training with departments. They may not take enough time to teach their officers on gun laws and current trends. I know many departments have recently added more training on this so maybe the new breed will actually be better. Generalizing them all only makes you look very ignorant.
New breed of cop? Give me a break. So you first assert there is some new breed of crappy cops out there by generalizing all new officers and calling them clones. Then it's indicated all the cops are dumb and can't make decision. Further it's said that small cops are scared and would violate rights out of fear? This is too entertaining not to read ha.
Dumb cops? In the past decade most agencies require (or only hire) candidates with college degrees. Departments now require a ton of legal and tactical training. This doesn't mean all cops are smart, but generalizing them all as dumb is inaccurate and without basis.
So small cops or nerdy cops will violate rights because they are afraid of large or gun toting people? Come on now, so all cops can only be muscleheads? How about tax payer money going for a large weightroom and paying officers to lift? Guess no female cops should ever be allowed on the street since their not as strong and surely will violate rights out of fear? manny pacquiao is a small guy, guess he can't be a cop. Hey smart guy, you should be a cop just for a year. You will see how many people want to fight and or resist your lawful arrests. Cops go hands on routinely. I can't tell you how many people I've had to fight in this job, most high on drugs or drunk. Pcp is coming back. So your assumption cops aren't use to confrontations is ridiculous.
There are good cops and bad cops as there are good doctors and bad doctors. Since cops are human there will always be some bad apples or bad decisions made. I think the major issues is training with departments. They may not take enough time to teach their officers on gun laws and current trends. I know many departments have recently added more training on this so maybe the new breed will actually be better. Generalizing them all only makes you look very ignorant.
roscoe13
Campaign Veteran
But ...But....
Don't tel me you all are starting to eat your own
Best news I've heard all day ;-)
Roscoe
But ...But....
Sheriff is one of your brothers and he's the one that posted that. He has 3 decades of law enforcement you know.
Don't tel me you all are starting to eat your own
lmao peter ... you know that 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' ??
... waits for peter's head to implode ...................
Sheriff
Regular Member
Oh well....
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That's only a guide Scouser...not a firm rule:uhoh:
Sheriff
Regular Member
Oh well...
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OC for ME
Regular Member
Doctors, good and bad, do not have qualified immunity when they do bad. Doctors do not normally have the other doctors in their practice review their badness and then declare that the doctor was not operating outside the bounds of office policy.....
Poor training.....this is about the mindset and not the mind. When/if your boss don't like X you tend to not like X to keep your job. When/if your buddies don't like X you tend to not like X to have a easy life at work. So, who is at fault? Your boss, your buddies, or you?.
This OC thing has been around many moons now, yet cops still roust citizens. The clock ran out on "Dang.....I didn't know OC was legal.....I'm sorry I and several of my coworkers rousted you for you doing what is apparently perfectly legal.....nobody ever told me or them.....sorry. I/we were not trained properly....obviously. Here's your gun back, can I buy you a cup of coffee?"
How difficult is it to state in cop school: "OC is legal/not illegal in this state."
How difficult is it to state on day one of work: "OC is legal/not illegal in this state, county, city/town/village."
How difficult is it to remember that OC is legal when told even once that OC is legal.
Poor training.....this is about the mindset and not the mind. When/if your boss don't like X you tend to not like X to keep your job. When/if your buddies don't like X you tend to not like X to have a easy life at work. So, who is at fault? Your boss, your buddies, or you?.
This OC thing has been around many moons now, yet cops still roust citizens. The clock ran out on "Dang.....I didn't know OC was legal.....I'm sorry I and several of my coworkers rousted you for you doing what is apparently perfectly legal.....nobody ever told me or them.....sorry. I/we were not trained properly....obviously. Here's your gun back, can I buy you a cup of coffee?"
How difficult is it to state in cop school: "OC is legal/not illegal in this state."
How difficult is it to state on day one of work: "OC is legal/not illegal in this state, county, city/town/village."
How difficult is it to remember that OC is legal when told even once that OC is legal.
Gunslinger
Regular Member
Excepting for the palm trees and the trampling of constitutional rights, you mean. Nice cop, very professional at violating the 2nd Amendment he purported to support. Don't blame him, as the PDR of Kalifornia mandates the treatment of its subjects, not generally the cop on the beat.
OC for ME
Regular Member
The key element of your post is the medical malpractice lawsuits....this translated into English means that it made it to a courtroom. Cops do not normally have to worry about a courtroom.
How many times do cops start interactions with folks because they are OCing? I was under the impression that cops started contacts with folks because there was a MWAG call that never got around to finding out what the MWAG was doing with the G at the moment. All they know is the called is "scared" or "worried". So cops need to go out and see what's up.
I was under the impression that cops started contacts with folks because someone [falsely] reported a MWAG was pointing the G or "flaunting" it on his hip or "threatening" or "intimidating" someone with the/by the prersence of the G. So cops need to go out and see what's up.
And yes, there are cops who have received no call from dispatch about a MWAG or a MWAH* or a MWP** but will stop the first person they see with a G or a H or S in hopes of finding something. The issue is - how often does that happen and how may cops are out there doing it?
But seriously, where are all these incidents that happen "just because someone was OCing"?
I agree that the response from supervisors/agency heads needs to be better. But there is also a part of me that wants the documentation that in spite of complaints there was no investigation, or no "refresher" training, or no "FYI so I stop getting all these complaints" notice - gross negligence and indifference gets translated into punative damages.
stay safe.
*MHAH = Man With A Hat
** MWS = Man Wearing Shorts
OC for ME
Regular Member
Do you think that with so few OCers, given any local population, that 'all' the regular/normal/habitual OCers are pretty much known to the local constabulary? Are you still stopped from time to time? Are you not stopped at all any more?
Now, how many times do they do nothing when they see the OCer? Unless of course they close their eyes before they initiate contact so as to have a plausible excuse for making contact to begin with. "I didn't actually 'see' the POI* so I was forced to make contact."
Sadly, cops just don't normally get trained to just drive by if they don't actually 'see' anything.....did I say 'see' anything.....like with their own eyes.....like in progress? No, they just have to stop and have a little chat, they just can't help themselves.
Now, I don't know how the cops in the Commonwealth view a 'reported felony' and what cops are allowed to do when they get a report of a MWAG walking around pointing at citizens, but here in Missouri I don't have to 'Show Them' they are gunna pretty much cuff/stuff sans the chatting part. No mister nice cop so to speak.
Now, what are the stats on MWAG calls per day, per week per month, per year, would be some very interesting info.
I smell what you're cooking, I don't necessarily think that what you're cooking is good for everybody.....add a little more salt and pepper, maybe some cumin, to spice it up, and more folks may like what you're cooking.
*POI = Person Of Interest
Anyway, just cuz cops ain't being reported as having been doing some violating even a teeny tiny little bit does not mean that most cops are lily white, nor are they habitually stupid at the most inconvenient time for the citizen. I can't prove one way or the other and neither can you.
Now, how many times do they do nothing when they see the OCer? Unless of course they close their eyes before they initiate contact so as to have a plausible excuse for making contact to begin with. "I didn't actually 'see' the POI* so I was forced to make contact."
Sadly, cops just don't normally get trained to just drive by if they don't actually 'see' anything.....did I say 'see' anything.....like with their own eyes.....like in progress? No, they just have to stop and have a little chat, they just can't help themselves.
Now, I don't know how the cops in the Commonwealth view a 'reported felony' and what cops are allowed to do when they get a report of a MWAG walking around pointing at citizens, but here in Missouri I don't have to 'Show Them' they are gunna pretty much cuff/stuff sans the chatting part. No mister nice cop so to speak.
Now, what are the stats on MWAG calls per day, per week per month, per year, would be some very interesting info.
I smell what you're cooking, I don't necessarily think that what you're cooking is good for everybody.....add a little more salt and pepper, maybe some cumin, to spice it up, and more folks may like what you're cooking.
*POI = Person Of Interest
Anyway, just cuz cops ain't being reported as having been doing some violating even a teeny tiny little bit does not mean that most cops are lily white, nor are they habitually stupid at the most inconvenient time for the citizen. I can't prove one way or the other and neither can you.
Sheriff
Regular Member
Oh well....
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WalkingWolf
Regular Member
I have no problem reporting them and testifying against them, as a former LE nothing makes me more mad is a bad cop. Whether they are bad because they are crooked, or because they are inept, the LAC should not be made to suffer bad cops.
I presume you have seen pictures of me. There is NO way I'm going to be confused with law enforcment - unless you have a Sgt. Santa program. I OC 99%+ of the time.
I lunch at sports that the cops (uniformed and plain clothes) frequent. I hit the two gun stores where they spend most of their time and money. I am in and out of the County Government Center. I spend a small amount of time out and about late at night in a "bad" area. The cops and I meet and greet each other (as in nod, say "Hello") at several of the convenience stores in the area, and I am pretty sure they see me OCing. None of them seem to know me by name, and I've confused some with a recent change of daily ride. I have never been stopped. (OK, I have picked up two speeding tickets in ~8 years and there was that "incident" down at the ferry - but I don't thiink that counts as being "stopped".)
We (a small group of regulars) meet for breakfast every Saturday. We usually eat at the same place, and we know that the cops have on occassion driven by for various reasons, but I can only think of one time when they took any interest in the fact that we were OCing - and that was because they nearly ran over us hurrying to get in and then get out when looking for someone who was behind in child support. Nobody was asked for "papers" or questioned/harassed about OCing. We have ha local cops and State Police come in to eat when we were there - and a few times while our tobacco-dependant contingent was hanging around the front door sucking down the nicotine so they could come back in and drink more coffee. Not a word was exchanged anout anybody OCing. A larger group gets together once a month for dinner, and we do tend to rotate between several "regular" places. Never has a customer "paniced" and called to report a MWAG (Mob with a gun in this case). We have had cops who patrol the parking lot slow down as they drove past us while we were hanging out on the sidewalk before or after dinner. No stops, not harassment.
It's not just "us" and our little area of operations because there are several other regular gatherings of OCers around the state. Except for the infamous Tony's Pizza incident I cannot recall anybody anywhere getting rousted/harassed. Because it is north of Ashland I do not try to keep up with what the folks in Manassas are doing but there seems to be a serious lack of reporting of any problems since that event got attended to.
There must be something to that "Sic Sempeer Tyrannis" motto.:uhoh:
stay safe.
Sig229
Regular Member
I have to agree.
The older LEO's seem to have their ego's built up so big that the Napoleon Complex would be the understatement of the year.
I have had lengthy conversations with younger LEO's and we both left feeling positive about the encounter.
However, the older cops have pulled me out of my vehicle, searched my car and yelled directly in my face when I exclaimed that never gave consent. And all of that was for being white and driving through a black neighborhood.