The New Breed of LEO's

[Sheriff]

Oh well.....

 

[Grapeshot]

Quote from VCDL e-mail today: We had a meeting on June 6th in the Charlottesville area where the city police department and the count sheriff’s office sent representatives ........ the comment was made by one of the officers who addressed our group that there is a “new breed” of LEO graduating from the Academy these days…it was never clarified just what this new breed is or how they are different from the old breed, but apparently some of them get nervous when they encounter law abiding citizens who happen to be armed.

Ever since I joined this forum, I have been saying the same EXACT thing to you guys and girls. Since the representatives present didn't define this new breed, I will offer you my definition. Some will say it's just my opinion. But many veteran officers just so happen to share my opinion. First off, this new breed is not only nervous when encountering a gun toting civilian, they are nervous all the time. Weight and height requirements have gone out the window in law enforcement. They are small and scared when they encounter a 6'4" 275 pound man who may or may not be armed. They are scared as soon as a person commits "contempt of cop". The courts and academies have erroneously taught this new breed that you have no rights whatsoever when officer safety is involved. When one of them stops you, things might go pretty smoothly until backup arrives. Especially if you are offering verbal resistance to, let's say, open carrying for example. Once backup has arrived they grow a spine and every right you have is trampled upon because it is their word against yours. They are so slow upstairs and they are learning one by one that citizens now have reccording devices on them. "Oops, we didn't know he/she had recorded us!" They academies have taught them that they have qualified immunity in unlawfully detaining you or arresting you if they are acting in good faith. We all know now this is not the case. Most of them have book sense now, not common sense. Most of them grew up playing video games at home with mommy or playing beer pong at college until they were 22 to 25 years old. They have never been exposed to anybody who just might take a notion to physically or verballly challenge them and their new shiny badge for the sport of it. They have a nice laminated card in their wallet with the Miranda warning on one side, and the phrase "Better judged by 6 than carried by 12" on the reverse side. For the past 30 years we have allowed the chiefs, sheriff and academies to create this monster, now we have to live with it.

By over generalizing, your posting would imply that this new "breed" of officer was categorically (all or most of them) as you describe - poor specimens to be so employed. I think that the errant officer is in the minority and where a pocket of them may existed, I fault upper management (Chief) as much or more than the individual LEO.

The concern is that your post, through such generalizations and implications, becomes an attack on all officers under your very broad brush. Entirely too much literary license taken with some statements IMO i.e. example bolded above.

I do agree that any problems that may exist in performance, demeanor, and intent stem from the top, either by design or by default. It is there that the buck stops.

 

[ed]

Loudoun County's NEW Sheriff - Mike Chapman

 

[Roverhound]

So you are saying we all need to open carry so they can learn the laws of the land.
Ignorance is not innocence. By what you are saying this "New Breed" either hasn't been trained or else holds the law in contempt. I'm with Grapeshot here, this starts at the top if that is the way they are being trained.

 

[ed]

We set up a Gun Rights Table when the Sheriff has an open house.. We give out Open Cards, Gun training pamphlets, VCDL applications, GSL stickers and answer questions about gun ownership in VA to both citizens and LEO's. VA Delegate David Ramadan joined us for a photo.
Jonboy Taylor, Ron Adkins, David Ramadan, Ed Levine, Brian Reynolds.

 

[kord]

I'm not saying all LEO's think like the Deputy I spoke with today (He has been a Deputy for just under a year), but when a local incident came up in our conversation he said "That's why I like the idea of people carrying"

Story on what happened in the neighborhood where I live and work. http://www.wavy.com//dpp/news/crime/vb-police-arrest-man-for-3-sex-assaults

 

[skidmark]

And the board here is literally awash in reports of this "new breed" of LEOs trampling on both our rights and our heads.

What?!? It's not?

There has always been, and always will be, a small percentage who live to give hickory shampoos and teach the "little people" where theeir place is. They usually make JBTs cringe for fear of being compared to them. These cops end up having internal difficulties (disciplinary reports - whether or not a firing results) and being placed on the Brady List of liars, as well as many with a history of moving from one department to another.

Anybody who says that the academies are teaching students "that they have qualified immunity in unlawfully detaining you or arresting you if they are acting in good faith" as a blanket out for bad behavior should be reporting this to DCJS so that the folks in charge of LEO certification can investigate. While qualified immunity is probably granted more often than it should be, there are just only so many new ways LEOs can violate your rights and just so many times the 4th Circuit can say "This was not precisely and exactly close enough to "X" case or "Y" case to say a reasonable LEO would not have known better. And any department that is not tripping over its own feet getting the word out about new court decisions is looking for serious losses in the courts - and they know that.

I'm going to have to sign up for the Citizens' Academy again to see just what changes are creating this "new breed". Last time I sat through the program they had just put one-way radio receivers in the cars and put call boxes on every other block instead of a mile apart. I hear there are computers in the cars now, and that cops are using them for more than surfing for free porn. I also hear that cops are using personal cell phones/smart phones - something I disagree with and think ought to be forbidden by policy. While communication other than by radio broadcast may serve a need (even after the latest round of encryption) it ought, IMHO, to be done as part of the public record.

But in the mean time I'll be looking for either massive reports of rights violations or an increase in the number of obituaries of folks who were lawfully carrying a sidearm. I'm not sure what I will do if I can't find them - but I'm pretty sure tin foil will not be a part of my response.

stay safe.

 

[scouser]

And the board here is literally awash in reports of this "new breed" of LEOs trampling on both our rights and our heads.

What?!? It's not?

There has always been, and always will be, a small percentage who live to give hickory shampoos and teach the "little people" where theeir place is. They usually make JBTs cringe for fear of being compared to them. These cops end up having internal difficulties (disciplinary reports - whether or not a firing results) and being placed on the Brady List of liars, as well as many with a history of moving from one department to another.

Anybody who says that the academies are teaching students "that they have qualified immunity in unlawfully detaining you or arresting you if they are acting in good faith" as a blanket out for bad behavior should be reporting this to DCJS so that the folks in charge of LEO certification can investigate. While qualified immunity is probably granted more often than it should be, there are just only so many new ways LEOs can violate your rights and just so many times the 4th Circuit can say "This was not precisely and exactly close enough to "X" case or "Y" case to say a reasonable LEO would not have known better. And any department that is not tripping over its own feet getting the word out about new court decisions is looking for serious losses in the courts - and they know that.

I'm going to have to sign up for the Citizens' Academy again to see just what changes are creating this "new breed". Last time I sat through the program they had just put one-way radio receivers in the cars and put call boxes on every other block instead of a mile apart. I hear there are computers in the cars now, and that cops are using them for more than surfing for free porn. I also hear that cops are using personal cell phones/smart phones - something I disagree with and think ought to be forbidden by policy. While communication other than by radio broadcast may serve a need (even after the latest round of encryption) it ought, IMHO, to be done as part of the public record.

But in the mean time I'll be looking for either massive reports of rights violations or an increase in the number of obituaries of folks who were lawfully carrying a sidearm. I'm not sure what I will do if I can't find them - but I'm pretty sure tin foil will not be a part of my response.

stay safe.

my concern on the personal phone use is that many of them are doing so while driving and their driving skills are not good enough to talk on a cellphone at the same time as driving (esp the Fauquier Co Deputy who thought it would be a good idea to attempt to pull out of a side street on to US17 this afternoon while I'm transporting 8500 gallons of gasoline at 50mph in the lane he decided to enter and couldn't see me because he had a cellphone glued to his ear .. he certainly HEARD my horn though)

 

[half_life1052]

my concern on the personal phone use is that many of them are doing so while driving and their driving skills are not good enough to talk on a cellphone at the same time as driving (esp the Fauquier Co Deputy who thought it would be a good idea to attempt to pull out of a side street on to US17 this afternoon while I'm transporting 8500 gallons of gasoline at 50mph in the lane he decided to enter and couldn't see me because he had a cellphone glued to his ear .. he certainly HEARD my horn though)

Lynchburg issues a Blackberry to their officers.

 

[hgreen]

In my few negative experiences with LEOs while OCing it has been what I would consider older generation LEOs that were the ones pushing the envelope on my rights the most.

Any encounters I've had with LEOs under age 40 have all been very positive, even back in California the ones that were younger, if any interaction, would just ask verbally if the gun was unloaded. It was always the older ones who went through with the full act of un-holstering my safely holstered firearm, pointing it at everyone and everything around them while trying to figure out how to inspect it's state.

Scottish Fair harassment/illegal search/assault was by a gray hair guy.
Old guy (same guy harassed us more than twice): [video=youtube;FBMrDHVBafE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBMrDHVBafE&feature=plcp[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW5q8o_GpSU

Old guy pointing guns at people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmqaJojnGjM

I will admit that there has been one experience that was negative involving a younger LEO (technically border patrol, though it occurred at least 100 miles from any border) and was not related to guns at all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tle12xoY2A

 

[Dreamer]

One of the most serious problems with LEOs these days--rookies or old-timers--is the TRAINING they are getting from various Federal Agencies.

They are being taught that there is a terrorist behind every tree. They are being taught that ANY citizen with a firearm is a potential cop-killer. They are being taught that a citizen mentioning the Constitution is the sign of potential domestic terrorism. They are being taught that the Founding Fathers were this nations FIRST TERRORISTS.

They are, in fact, being indoctrinated by the Feds to hold citizens in contempt, consider "Constitutional Rights" an obstacle to overcome in the process of their work, and they are being inculcated with deep fear and paranoia as part of this training.

The fact that many new Academy grads have room-temperature IQs (because departments don't want to hire high-scoring candidates because they "don't stay with the force for long"), have been mildly brain-damaged by 15 years worth of playing HALO and Call of Duty, and consider anyone not in a uniform as "part of the problem only makes this Federal Paranoia Programming that much more effective.

We need to hire smarter cops, and stop training them to view the Rule of Law as a "speed bump", if we want the US to retain any sense of Liberty and Freedom. If not, we will continue down this incremental path toward totalitarianism, until all the LEAs start issuing their officers brown shirts...

 

[Grapeshot]

[h=2]J. D. "Danny" Diggs's Overview [/h] Current

• President at Virginia Sheriffs' Association
• Sheriff at York-Poquoson Sheriff's Office

Past

• Major at Gloucester County Sheriff's Office
• Investigator at York County Sheriff's Office
• Deputy Sheriff at York County Sheriff's Office

Perhaps the most influential and pro self-defense sheriff in Virginia.
Many of us are proud to call Danny a friend.

 

[ed]

even back in California

and in the Virginia Open carry forum, we care about this video and e-check system why?

 

[Grapeshot]

and in the Virginia Open carry forum, we care about this video and e-check system why?

As a current Virginia resident he was drawing from his experiences to make the point that officers can be polite and effective or not wherever they are found. The officer's conduct was the point, not the e-check system. Excepting for the palm trees, that could have been the City of Richmond. I enjoyed them and was able to relate to happenings here.

 

[ed]

ugh

 

[mwaterous]

I hope I was reading that weight and height requirement thing wrong, but just to clarify; so you're saying that because I'm 5'11 and weigh 165lbs, if I was to become a LEO I would automatically be put into this group of gun fearing right abusing nervous folk? I would, against my better judgement, automatically make unconstitutional decisions and vacate you of your rights? Maybe I'd even still a little drug money or evidence on the side?

Right. Because every body I've ever met who is 6'4 and weighs in at 250+ is automagically educamacated and definitely not a meathead (I apologize to any meatheads in advance). In fact, that pretty much means the entirety of Jersey Shore should probably become our next generation of LEOs, they can obviously make the best decisions.

 

[77zach]

It's really hard to know what to think sometimes. I've seen cops commit assault and even murder on tape and their departments and fellow cops protect the offenders. I've seen a NYPD officer intentionally push a cyclist off his bike for no reason, charge the cyclist with assault, and watch a dozen of his fellow officers back him up. But I've also seen cops helping people on the side of the road.

I've never had an interaction while OCing in GA or VA, even when LEOs have seen me. I've never had a bad leo interaction in Fl, and I speed everywhere I go, lived here all my life. I did have the Ridgeland, SC police dpt lie about a drug dog alerting to my vehicle and illegally search it (they found nothing).

I know the Fl sheriff association is against me being openly armed, and most of the people in charge there are old guys, not the "new breed".

????

 

[Venator]

Just the fact he is wearing eagles and not 5 stars win points with me. What is it with the egos of some sheriffs and Chiefs.

 

[peter nap]

And the board here is literally awash in reports of this "new breed" of LEOs trampling on both our rights and our heads.

What?!? It's not?

There has always been, and always will be, a small percentage who live to give hickory shampoos and teach the "little people" where theeir place is. They usually make JBTs cringe for fear of being compared to them. These cops end up having internal difficulties (disciplinary reports - whether or not a firing results) and being placed on the Brady List of liars, as well as many with a history of moving from one department to another.

Anybody who says that the academies are teaching students "that they have qualified immunity in unlawfully detaining you or arresting you if they are acting in good faith" as a blanket out for bad behavior should be reporting this to DCJS so that the folks in charge of LEO certification can investigate. While qualified immunity is probably granted more often than it should be, there are just only so many new ways LEOs can violate your rights and just so many times the 4th Circuit can say "This was not precisely and exactly close enough to "X" case or "Y" case to say a reasonable LEO would not have known better. And any department that is not tripping over its own feet getting the word out about new court decisions is looking for serious losses in the courts - and they know that.

I'm going to have to sign up for the Citizens' Academy again to see just what changes are creating this "new breed". Last time I sat through the program they had just put one-way radio receivers in the cars and put call boxes on every other block instead of a mile apart. I hear there are computers in the cars now, and that cops are using them for more than surfing for free porn. I also hear that cops are using personal cell phones/smart phones - something I disagree with and think ought to be forbidden by policy. While communication other than by radio broadcast may serve a need (even after the latest round of encryption) it ought, IMHO, to be done as part of the public record.

But in the mean time I'll be looking for either massive reports of rights violations or an increase in the number of obituaries of folks who were lawfully carrying a sidearm. I'm not sure what I will do if I can't find them - but I'm pretty sure tin foil will not be a part of my response.

stay safe.

Yep!

There are good cops, bad cops and most are average cops.

Most good cops go through life without a serious attitude, some bad cops get fired and hire on somewhere else and are still bad cops, most just do their jobs.

Danny Diggs is a prime example of good administration hiring good people and requiring professionalism. I've never seen a complaint from York.

Roanoke is at the other end of the spectrum. There is a lot of space in between.

 

[Sheriff]

Oh well....