The New Breed of LEO's

[Dreamer]

"Ten percent of cops are absolutely honest, ten percent are absolutely dishonest, and the other 80% wish they were honest."

--Frank Serpico, testifying before the Knapp Commission, 1972


We've come a long way since then, eh?...
​

 

[Neplusultra]

Not saying anything one way or the other but I just had an experience being pulled over. I was not carrying but had a "guns save lives" sticker on the back window of my truck. The 10 year officer pointed out he did not like that sticker and questioned me about any guns I might have. He then, it was late at night and I'd had a beer earlier, made me do sobriety tests. Out of view of his video camera. I requested the tests be done in front of his cruiser and videoed which he refused saying his camera didn't work. I then requested the tests be done in front of the back up crusier that had arrived. That was also denied. I was not charged as I blew well under the legal limit, after rejecting an on location breath test. But he really put me through the wringer. Including things like making me stand on one foot until I could no longer do so which of course I started to wobble as my leg muscles got tired. I'm not young and in shape and am a bit overweight. Towing costs were $150.....

He really was out to do whatever he could and it seems to have started with the GSL sticker.

 

[Neplusultra]

BTW, what is the Android ap that does live video/audio streaming to some secure server? That would have been handy as I did not have my voice recorder with me. A live audio stream to a server than couldn't be hacked by the police would be nice......

 

[1245A Defender]

Wowwy!!!

You got yourself a big fat lying cop!
Foia his dash cam!!!
Why would he refuse to do the test in front of a camera he claimed did NOT work???
Then again refuse to do the test in front of a camera that DID work??
I am sure you have a valid 42 usc 1983 suit.

 

[Sheriff]

Oh well...

 

[skidmark]

BTW, what is the Android ap that does live video/audio streaming to some secure server? That would have been handy as I did not have my voice recorder with me. A live audio stream to a server than couldn't be hacked by the police would be nice......

QIK video.

stay safe.

 

[skidmark]

So we have a few stories about bad cops - and the majority are from out of state and specifically from a state where corruption and misconduct in the PD ranks has been rampant since Day 2.

This is just like the antis' campaign to paint everyone with a gun as dangerous/out of control based on the relatively few incidents taking place. Out of all the folks carrying a gun yesterday (including the BGs who cannot legally have/carry guns) how many shot someone or robbed someone? out of all the cops out there, how many violated someone's civil rights?

It sucks when you are the one whose rights are violated, when you are the one getting rousted and hassled. But what happens to you is not indicative of what all cops do. I am not an apologist for the behavior/misbehavior of cops - I am trying to see if there is the widespread problem others are making out does exist. I support (heck, would insist if I had the powers to make it happen) that minimally a formal complaint be filed against every cop who decided to express their opinion as opposed to enforcing the laws, let alone violated civil rights. I'd also like to see better discipline of cops found to be acting out.

stay safe.

 

[peter nap]

So we have a few stories about bad cops - and the majority are from out of state and specifically from a state where corruption and misconduct in the PD ranks has been rampant since Day 2.

This is just like the antis' campaign to paint everyone with a gun as dangerous/out of control based on the relatively few incidents taking place. Out of all the folks carrying a gun yesterday (including the BGs who cannot legally have/carry guns) how many shot someone or robbed someone? out of all the cops out there, how many violated someone's civil rights?

It sucks when you are the one whose rights are violated, when you are the one getting rousted and hassled. But what happens to you is not indicative of what all cops do. I am not an apologist for the behavior/misbehavior of cops - I am trying to see if there is the widespread problem others are making out does exist. I support (heck, would insist if I had the powers to make it happen) that minimally a formal complaint be filed against every cop who decided to express their opinion as opposed to enforcing the laws, let alone violated civil rights. I'd also like to see better discipline of cops found to be acting out.

stay safe.

I guess there should be a definition of "Bad Cop" Skid.
Out of the thousands of cops we pass each year, how many actually violate the law? Not many. Right now, I can think of about 20 in recent years and that includes Surry, Roanoke and a recent members problem in Richmond.

There is considerable difference between Irritating and Bad.

OTOH....the number of non events and occasional good contacts are pretty high. The recent Drowned Terrorist affair was good enough to prompt an email to the Chief complementing the Officer and asking him to put it in the boy's (can I say boy) file.
That was definitely a good contact.

 

[Neplusultra]

What charge did he use to confiscate or tow your vehicle????

He arrested me for DUI after I refused the breathalyser test. Let's say the interrogation on the scene didn't seem like he was being fair and objective so I decided to refuse. Once at the station and after a bunch of readings of the law and consideration I took the test at the station, the equipment of which is supposedly connected to Richmond and sounded a bit more trustworthy then his hand-held unit. I blew a 0.03

He said he had probable cause to arrest me after the sobriety tests, which is why I then requested to be retested in front of his vehicle, and then in front of the back up cruiser, completely forgetting about my smart phone and it's video camera...... There were two officers there of course so one could have videotaped while the other conducted the tests.

 

[SouthernBoy]

Not saying anything one way or the other but I just had an experience being pulled over. I was not carrying but had a "guns save lives" sticker on the back window of my truck. The 10 year officer pointed out he did not like that sticker and questioned me about any guns I might have. He then, it was late at night and I'd had a beer earlier, made me do sobriety tests. Out of view of his video camera. I requested the tests be done in front of his cruiser and videoed which he refused saying his camera didn't work. I then requested the tests be done in front of the back up crusier that had arrived. That was also denied. I was not charged as I blew well under the legal limit, after rejecting an on location breath test. But he really put me through the wringer. Including things like making me stand on one foot until I could no longer do so which of course I started to wobble as my leg muscles got tired. I'm not young and in shape and am a bit overweight. Towing costs were $150.....

He really was out to do whatever he could and it seems to have started with the GSL sticker.

"Police are after bodies" [paraphrased from a book]. They are reluctant to back off once they have waded into a situation. Now this is not by any means to insinuate all police operate in this fashion, just that there are some that do... apparently. I do find it more than mildly curious that an officer in the that part of the state would not like a "guns save lives" sticker as it would have been my guess that most central and Southern Virginia LEO's would be very pro-gun. But as has been mentioned, that is not necessarily the case (Roanoke??).

BTW, did you go after the officer or are you going to do so?

 

[Neplusultra]

You got yourself a big fat lying cop!
Foia his dash cam!!!
Why would he refuse to do the test in front of a camera he claimed did NOT work???
Then again refuse to do the test in front of a camera that DID work??
I am sure you have a valid 42 usc 1983 suit.

Why do you say I have a valid suit Defender? I am not sure I have a right to be videotaped but I am sure it would make for a compelling argument in front of a judge to dismiss those charges.

 

[Neplusultra]

"Police are after bodies" [paraphrased from a book]. They are reluctant to back off once they have waded into a situation.

BTW, did you go after the officer or are you going to do so?

Perhaps, not sure on what basis though. Sounds like a big he said/she said.

Not sure if there would be an audio, if not partial video, record either. Stupid me was not ready to use my smartphone to record the incident....

 

[SouthernBoy]

Perhaps, not sure on what basis though. Sounds like a big he said/she said.

Not sure if there would be an audio, if not partial video, record either. Stupid me was not ready to use my smartphone to record the incident....

You mentioned having to do the one-leg balancing act. Man, I'd fail that one big time because both of osteoarthritis in both of my knees (getting that fixed over the next year). I'd probably look stupid drunk.

 

[davidmcbeth]

I would not voluntarily disarm .. I have my gun to protect myself specially from THEM. If they have no RAS, they don't have the legal authority .. after that, its pure theft.

 

[skidmark]

There are some among us that cannot "pass" some or all of the field sobriety tests for documented physiological reasons. Because even attempting the test in that case will give the cop RAS and PC to write you up and force you to appear in court to deal with things, it has been suggested to me by both advocates for a few "rights of the disabled" agencies and two of my physicians that I politely explain why I refuse the roadside testing and ask to be taken to the station or the local hospital for testing.

There may be some confusion over whether or not I would be "under arrest" for purposes of transporting me in order to determine if there was RAS/PC to arrest me for DUI. Maybe User will weigh in on that. But in the meantime I'll be locking my keys inside my vehicle. Yes, I'm willing to pay tow and locksmith costs to make them wait to conduct the search incident to arrest until they have enough to actually arrest me.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-267

§ 18.2-267. Preliminary analysis of breath to determine alcoholic content of blood.
A. Any person who is suspected of a violation of § 18.2-266, 18.2-266.1, subsection B of § 18.2-272, or a similar ordinance shall be entitled, if such equipment is available, to have his breath analyzed to determine the probable alcoholic content of his blood. The person shall also be entitled, upon request, to observe the process of analysis and to see the blood-alcohol reading on the equipment used to perform the breath test. His breath may be analyzed by any police officer of the Commonwealth, or of any county, city or town, or by any member of a sheriff's department in the normal discharge of his duties.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-268.2

§ 18.2-268.2. Implied consent to post-arrest testing to determine drug or alcohol content of blood.

Yeah, I know it says "post-arrest testing" but 18.2-267 discusses "suspected" violation. How can one be arrested for the purpose of determining if they are subject to arrest?



stay safe.

 

[Neplusultra]

There are some among us that cannot "pass" some or all of the field sobriety tests for documented physiological reasons. Because even attempting the test in that case will give the cop RAS and PC to write you up and force you to appear in court to deal with things, it has been suggested to me by both advocates for a few "rights of the disabled" agencies and two of my physicians that I politely explain why I refuse the roadside testing and ask to be taken to the station or the local hospital for testing.

Yeah, I know it says "post-arrest testing" but 18.2-267 discusses "suspected" violation. How can one be arrested for the purpose of determining if they are subject to arrest?



stay safe.

Yep, he said I was under arrest I guess based on his assessment of the sobriety test. Which after blowing a 0.03 at the station kind of indicates the trustworthiness of those sobriety test judgement calls.

What I would like to know is if there is any requirement to videotape the test when the officer has the ability to do so. Kind of would help in a court of law.... I knew I pretty much had him when he refused to redo the test in front of the camera. He did take exception to the idea I might be armed. Pointed that out along with the GSL sticker. He would not let me put my hands near my pockets even after doing the Terry stop, etc.

He used handcuffs with a chain joining them. I suggested he ought to use hinged cuffs as they cannot be picked even if the suspect has a key. He didn't seem to appreciate my advice and said he has to use what the department provides :^).

 

[Neplusultra]

QIK video.

stay safe.

Thanks Skid, looking it up now......

 

[SouthernBoy]

There are some among us that cannot "pass" some or all of the field sobriety tests for documented physiological reasons. Because even attempting the test in that case will give the cop RAS and PC to write you up and force you to appear in court to deal with things, it has been suggested to me by both advocates for a few "rights of the disabled" agencies and two of my physicians that I politely explain why I refuse the roadside testing and ask to be taken to the station or the local hospital for testing.

There may be some confusion over whether or not I would be "under arrest" for purposes of transporting me in order to determine if there was RAS/PC to arrest me for DUI. Maybe User will weigh in on that. But in the meantime I'll be locking my keys inside my vehicle. Yes, I'm willing to pay tow and locksmith costs to make them wait to conduct the search incident to arrest until they have enough to actually arrest me.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-267


http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-268.2

Yeah, I know it says "post-arrest testing" but 18.2-267 discusses "suspected" violation. How can one be arrested for the purpose of determining if they are subject to arrest?



stay safe.

Just curious. Why not lock the vehicle and just put your keys in your pocket? Fear of an illegal search for your keys or something else?

 

[Sheriff]

Oh well....

 

[skidmark]

Southernboy -

If my keys are locked inside my vehicle there is going to be some effort exerted to open it for a search incident to arrest, and there are a few (sadly not nearly enough) limits on how much damage the cops can do without having to pay for repairs. If they want to go to the trouble of getting a search warrant (for what?) they can get away with doing anything they want to. But I ask again, what would they be searching for?

If they are "merely" doing an inventory for safeguarding incident to towing/storage, they are going to need to explain why they did not just leave the vehicle locked. I have seen a very small number of agencies deal with vehicles locked in situations like this merely seal them with evidence tape while everybody waited to see what shakes out following the formal testing. They are generally departments in very up-scale communities where the "uniform of the day" is a blazer with a discrete pocket crest.

stay safe.