Should convicted felons be allowed to bear arms?

[hhofent]

I would love to see a law describing littering as a felony, unless you're littering something like asbestos into a city water reservoir, I am sure that "littering" is only a felony if it's hazardous product...

illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2013/12/get-ready-to-stop-flicking-that-butt.html

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[EMNofSeattle]

illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2013/12/get-ready-to-stop-flicking-that-butt.html

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So you could get hit with a felony after two previous convictions. You won't get jacked up for throwing one cigarette butt.....

 

[hhofent]

So you could get hit with a felony after two previous convictions. You won't get jacked up for throwing one cigarette butt.....

No, but you could if you threw three.

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[EMNofSeattle]

You don't pay attention well do you?



Your ignorance about drug users is very telling.

It isn't the business of the state to compensate itself. It isn't justice not to compensate the victim.

If your buddies were convicting it was also the buddies of the criminal. Yet you have no proof for your statement.

So how many known hard drugs users are working for you right now on any of your jobs? How many have you hired?

So how ID your average criminal going to compensate their victim? My friend just evicted one of these drugs users I'm so ignorant about from the rental houses I help him manage. The meth head is gone to the wind, we have that civil judgement on his ass for 3000 dollars in back rent and damages, wanna take a guess how much he's collected?

 

[WalkingWolf]

So how many known hard drugs users are working for you right now on any of your jobs? How many have you hired?

So how ID your average criminal going to compensate their victim? My friend just evicted one of these drugs users I'm so ignorant about from the rental houses I help him manage. The meth head is gone to the wind, we have that civil judgement on his ass for 3000 dollars in back rent and damages, wanna take a guess how much he's collected?

Why did he rent to a meth head?

How much would he collect with the meth head in prison?

Gotta wonder about the logic of statists...

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Why did he rent to a meth head?

How much would he collect with the meth head in prison?

Gotta wonder about the logic of statists...

So how much can we rent your crystal ball for?

I don't know what my friend wants, personally I'd prefer him being in prison not paying versus him living under the table somewhere I can't find him not paying me.

 

[WalkingWolf]

So how much can we rent your crystal ball for?

I don't know what my friend wants, personally I'd prefer him being in prison not paying versus him living under the table somewhere I can't find him not paying me.

I just trying to find out how your friend could have the dilemma you described when making and or using meth is against the law. Is that not the purpose of the law?

How could you not know he was a meth head, after all, don't all drug users look like scum? Are so out of control they have to steal?

Ever hear of references and background checks before renting?

I have a crystal ball, I see lazy people relying on the state instead of accepting responsibility.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Wow..... Don't have much on this topic?

I've asked several times what you would see as just compensation. I even laid out a clear and concise crime.

Unarmed robbery where you are physically punched in the face and your cell phone is stolen.

You said medical bills, so I asked what if there are no medical bills? Either from no injuries or no battery being involved.

So again... What would you deem just compensation? You have seemed to imply there are other forms of compensation other then monetary to you or them working directly for you. So what are they?

No response.

No surprise.

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Did you intentionally leave out the portion where that could be left up to a jury?

Nice try, I can name several that I would like to see but that is irrelevant.

Like I said you don't pay attention well or intentionally are dishonest.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

So how many known hard drugs users are working for you right now on any of your jobs? How many have you hired?

So how ID your average criminal going to compensate their victim? My friend just evicted one of these drugs users I'm so ignorant about from the rental houses I help him manage. The meth head is gone to the wind, we have that civil judgement on his ass for 3000 dollars in back rent and damages, wanna take a guess how much he's collected?

I'm in construction I've had lots of felons work for me including former drug users. They tend to be more loyal and honest to those they work for than "educated" blow hards who think the world owes them something.

I don't care if a person does drugs on Friday, come to work clean on Monday and carry on.

Again there are many ways of compensation, who am I to declare the "approved" method. This shows you and Primus's thinking, the answer to you guys is in the state and a set set of rules. Not one that is based on each situation.

Look how many felons work as cops, they haven't been convicted yet they commit murder, steal, rape (50% of prison rape is done by the guards), break law after law yet they get away with it.

For example if you insist the state be involved in the punishment program the felon can do work that gets overlooked by the state his wages garnished and given to the victims. They do it to divorced fathers all the time who have committed no crimes.

YOU two statist worked real hard at diverting and changing the question (meanwhile Primus uses the cop tactic of accusing me of owing him an answer) while not addressing my original point.

 

[SFCRetired]

Just to add a little to this discussion; I knew a man who got into a lot of trouble when he was younger and served more than one prison sentence. As he got a little older and realized that he was not going to be able to continue as he was going, he turned his life around and became an honest hard-working citizen. His rights, all of his rights, should have been restored to him. They weren't.

He was well-respected in his community, although many knew of his past, and was loved as a husband, father, and brother. He passed away this last March at the age of 81. He was my step-brother; my father's oldest son.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I just trying to find out how your friend could have the dilemma you described when making and or using meth is against the law. Is that not the purpose of the law?

How could you not know he was a meth head, after all, don't all drug users look like scum? Are so out of control they have to steal?

Ever hear of references and background checks before renting?

I have a crystal ball, I see lazy people relying on the state instead of accepting responsibility.

What makes me laugh is these two support a system that gives nothing to the victim.

In reality what happens is the victim has money stolen for a "justice" system and then justice is ignored meanwhile the victim then has money stolen to cage and feed the perp. But hey because they can't envision anything different than a anti liberty top down system where the king er I mean the state benefits by having more and more criminals in an ever increasing circle jerk of an ever increasing state, that has lowered the bar of felony to a ridiculous level.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Hey Primus why is a click it and ticket charge around $150.00 bucks?

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Just to add a little to this discussion; I knew a man who got into a lot of trouble when he was younger and served more than one prison sentence. As he got a little older and realized that he was not going to be able to continue as he was going, he turned his life around and became an honest hard-working citizen. His rights, all of his rights, should have been restored to him. They weren't.

He was well-respected in his community, although many knew of his past, and was loved as a husband, father, and brother. He passed away this last March at the age of 81. He was my step-brother; my father's oldest son.

Sad for your loss and for his loss of natural rights.

A few years ago a man who cleaned up his life and had a family and job and a house was jailed here in Washington because his wife's gun was accessible to him. There is no justice system anymore and anyone who would enforce these anti liberty laws are the scum of the earth.

 

[Primus]

Did you intentionally leave out the portion where that could be left up to a jury?

Nice try, I can name several that I would like to see but that is irrelevant.

Like I said you don't pay attention well or intentionally are dishonest.

Ok so jury assigns the value to you getting punched in the face? They assign if it'd worth 40 bucks or 100?

More evasions. You can't answer the scenario because you know it wouldn't work for something like armed robbery.

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[sudden valley gunner]

Ok so jury assigns the value to you getting punched in the face? They assign if it'd worth 40 bucks or 100?

More evasions. You can't answer the scenario because you know it wouldn't work for something like armed robbery.

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LOL...you are a hypocrite too.

I didn't evade you don't comprehend well. Yes it can be either it depends on what the jury feels like or as I have stated in various ways, each situation is different.

Should I assume since you "evade" my points you don't think victims should be compensated.

You couldn't be more obtuse. It isn't because I don't think it would work especially when it worked well until the state decided to monopolize the compensation for themselves.

So again why is a click it or ticket infraction around $150.00. Are you smart enough to know this question traps you or do you really don't know?

 

[sudden valley gunner]

By the way Primus your way has utterly failed, and it does nothing for the victims which is my main point you keep ignoring.

 

[Primus]

LOL...you are a hypocrite too.

I didn't evade you don't comprehend well. Yes it can be either it depends on what the jury feels like.

Should I assume since you "evade" my points you don't think victims should be compensated.

You couldn't be more obtuse. It isn't because I don't think it would work especially when it worked well until the state decided to monopolize the compensation for themselves.

So again why is a click it or ticket infraction around $150.00. Are you smart enough to know this question traps you or do you really don't know?

Fail to wear seat belt around these parts is 35.00. Not sure where youngest 150.00 from. But even if it was its revenue to the state to pay for othernthings.

How is that relevant to paying victims?

So a jury says "pay her 40 bucks for pointing gun at her". Cmon.....

So he pays his 40 bucks and goes on and robs someone else.

What about sex crimes? Who pays the 10 year old girl that gets raped? Does the guy just pay x amount to her? Or do the parents get it? I'm sure her life is much better once she gets that 100 bucks.

The issue is you have no idea how screwed up people really are. Or you do and think it's ok.

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[sudden valley gunner]

Fail to wear seat belt around these parts is 35.00. Not sure where youngest 150.00 from. But even if it was its revenue to the state to pay for othernthings.

How is that relevant to paying victims?

So a jury says "pay her 40 bucks for pointing gun at her". Cmon.....

So he pays his 40 bucks and goes on and robs someone else.

What about sex crimes? Who pays the 10 year old girl that gets raped? Does the guy just pay x amount to her? Or do the parents get it? I'm sure her life is much better once she gets that 100 bucks.

The issue is you have no idea how screwed up people really are. Or you do and think it's ok.

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You still didn't answer "why". The amount is fairly irrelevant.

So you are going to go onto one red herring after another? How does a guy in prison compensate the victim?

Why are you purposefully putting the amounts ridiculously low?

You also seem to be making the false assumption about my views of punishment and of people. More fallacy arguments upon fallacy arguments.

I wanna play your fallacy game for a second, why are you anti justice?

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Please can anyone who supports these restrictions, point to me where the federal government had the power to do so in the constitution.

If you took an oath to support the constitution and then enforce unconstitutional laws. You are a bad apple in a rotten barrel.

 

[hhofent]

The issue is you have no idea how screwed up people really are. Or you do and think it's ok.

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My biggest problem with your arguements, and the reason I object vehemently to the idea that felons shouldn't have guns is this:

Yes, there are horrible people out there. But the idea of preventing crimes and the idea of unalienable rights do not mix well.
People should be judged by their actions, not the actions of their predecessors. When you say someone does x therefore you can assume he will do y, means that people who will never do y lose that privilege anyway. I would prefer people that shouldn't have guns occasionally get them to people who should have them occasionally not getting them.

I hope you get the jist of what I'm saying, I know my wording isn't perfect.


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