SB234: The Final Countdown

[77zach]

This is the letter I want to send. and would like a opinion on it first.

April 18, 2011

Subject: SB234

Dear Senator,

I as a Voter/American Citizen/Floridian, require that you vote YES on the up coming Senate Bill 234. Your positive approach to this bill is vital to it’s passing. And also will be vital in the next voting session for the State Senate. This bill at hand (SB234) will be a great opportunity to show THE PEOPLE that you see the American People and their rights as being that a RIGHT not a privilege that can not be and should not be infringed upon, passing this bill is also going to show the people of Florida that you can be trusted with the position you were appointed to.

Constitutionally this bill should never have been in front of this committee nor ever been illegal in the first place. This is our right as an American Citizen per the United States Constitution and the Florida Constitution and WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND OUR RIGHTS, I for one will not let this stand if you or the senate vote no on this bill and it fails. Our Governor has promised to sign this bill into law as soon as it hits his desk.
Let him take responsibilities for what is to come and not your futures in the public eye.
I ask that you to vote YES to this bill.

In addition, Law enforcement have stated that they should be the only ones allowed to Open Carry during all the committee meeting and that they are the only people qualified to do such, Well do some research into their claims and you will find that they have very little training (8 weeks to learn how to arrest, drive, paperwork, detainment, laws, and then finally firearm training, YES THAT IS IT (8) WEEKS, about (2) months. To be the only qualified persons. Then from there they only practice about (2 - 3) times a year when required to qualify.

Now lets get back to the requirements that is required of them. They “LEO” are not required to protect an individual from any crime, they are only to protect the people as a whole. Per The United States Supreme Court. So as to the people we must be able to protect ourselves with what ever means possible and have the right to do so per The United States Constitution as well as The Florida State Constitution.


People keep talking about how the tourist will feel when they come to Florida and see people walking around with visible guns and the answer is this,

1. The tourist mostly come from other states that already have the Open Carry policy
and will not be offended or effected because of this reason.

2. The States with open carry have very few people that take advantage of this type
of carrying and most likely will apply here in Florida in a short period of time.

3. This will in fact ease the stress that comes with Concealed carry as to
inadvertently showing their firearm.

4. Will allow people that are dressed is a suit jacket or other type of over heating
clothing to be allowed to remove such items and enjoy the weather here in Florida
without the need to be unarmed and unsafe.

5. Crime rates have dropped dramatically since the concealed carry has taken place
here in Florida. Open carry will in fact reduce the crime rate even further do to this
policy.

6. All of the Open Carry States have also claimed with statistics from the FBI, that
their streets are now even safer with this law in effect. Take for instance New
Hampshire and Vermont have the lowest crime rates per 100,000 people in their
State. whereas Chicago, D.C and New York with the most absurd laws and have
some of the highest crime rates in our nation, and are very unsafe that one might
not attempt to go outside during certain times of day or night due to the high crime
rate in their cities.

7. Our streets nor the other States that already allow this type of carry in place have
or will become “The Old WILD WILD WEST”, nor is there any “blood running onto the
streets”. or shoot outs with the LEO/fast draws in the center of town.

I could continue with this logic with you but will refrain as to not take anymore of your time, Instead ask that you will consider some of these points that I have pointed out to you and ask that you approve and support this Bill.

It's probably too long. I'd end it after paragraph 2.

I'd also link to the maps section for OC on OCDO

 

[oogotbagsoo]

^ well said. I sent as similar email to all the senators. Also had some points and FACTS for them to digest.

Send away !

 

[hammer6]

This is the letter I want to send. and would like a opinion on it first.

April 18, 2011

Subject: SB234

Dear Senator,

I as a Voter/American Citizen/Floridian, require that you vote YES on the up coming Senate Bill 234. Your positive approach to this bill is vital to it’s passing. And also will be vital in the next voting session for the State Senate. This bill at hand (SB234) will be a great opportunity to show THE PEOPLE that you see the American People and their rights as being that a RIGHT not a privilege that can not be and should not be infringed upon, passing this bill is also going to show the people of Florida that you can be trusted with the position you were appointed to.

Constitutionally this bill should never have been in front of this committee nor ever been illegal in the first place. This is our right as an American Citizen per the United States Constitution and the Florida Constitution and WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND OUR RIGHTS, I for one will not let this stand if you or the senate vote no on this bill and it fails. Our Governor has promised to sign this bill into law as soon as it hits his desk.
Let him take responsibilities for what is to come and not your futures in the public eye.
I ask that you to vote YES to this bill.

In addition, Law enforcement have stated that they should be the only ones allowed to Open Carry during all the committee meeting and that they are the only people qualified to do such, Well do some research into their claims and you will find that they have very little training (8 weeks to learn how to arrest, drive, paperwork, detainment, laws, and then finally firearm training, YES THAT IS IT (8) WEEKS, about (2) months. To be the only qualified persons. Then from there they only practice about (2 - 3) times a year when required to qualify.

Now lets get back to the requirements that is required of them. They “LEO” are not required to protect an individual from any crime, they are only to protect the people as a whole. Per The United States Supreme Court. So as to the people we must be able to protect ourselves with what ever means possible and have the right to do so per The United States Constitution as well as The Florida State Constitution.


People keep talking about how the tourist will feel when they come to Florida and see people walking around with visible guns and the answer is this,

1. The tourist mostly come from other states that already have the Open Carry policy
and will not be offended or effected because of this reason.

2. The States with open carry have very few people that take advantage of this type
of carrying and most likely will apply here in Florida in a short period of time.

3. This will in fact ease the stress that comes with Concealed carry as to
inadvertently showing their firearm.

4. Will allow people that are dressed is a suit jacket or other type of over heating
clothing to be allowed to remove such items and enjoy the weather here in Florida
without the need to be unarmed and unsafe.

5. Crime rates have dropped dramatically since the concealed carry has taken place
here in Florida. Open carry will in fact reduce the crime rate even further do to this
policy.

6. All of the Open Carry States have also claimed with statistics from the FBI, that
their streets are now even safer with this law in effect. Take for instance New
Hampshire and Vermont have the lowest crime rates per 100,000 people in their
State. whereas Chicago, D.C and New York with the most absurd laws and have
some of the highest crime rates in our nation, and are very unsafe that one might
not attempt to go outside during certain times of day or night due to the high crime
rate in their cities.

7. Our streets nor the other States that already allow this type of carry in place have
or will become “The Old WILD WILD WEST”, nor is there any “blood running onto the
streets”. or shoot outs with the LEO/fast draws in the center of town.

I could continue with this logic with you but will refrain as to not take anymore of your time, Instead ask that you will consider some of these points that I have pointed out to you and ask that you approve and support this Bill.

whatever portion you decide to send, i'd recommend getting someone to proofread it for you- a lot of your sentences are grammatically incorrect, and some of your spelling is wrong as well. your points are good, but you'll look like a fool if you can't spell correctly, or form grammatically correct sentences....

 

[firedog]

whatever portion you decide to send, i'd recommend getting someone to proofread it for you- a lot of your sentences are grammatically incorrect, and some of your spelling is wrong as well. your points are good, but you'll look like a fool if you can't spell correctly, or form grammatically correct sentences....

I have to agree with Hammer6 on the proof reading. Your position is clear and your efforts I’m sure are appreciated. However, if this is actually read by any of the senators, they may very well be distracted by the grammar. I very often have my wife proof read a lot of my documents when they are going to professionals such as senators or executives. Thanks for putting forth the effort and we all need to continue and not let the ball drop in these late stages. It’s time to turn up the heat daily.

 

[ixtow]

I got the same wordy but essentially blank message from Harridopolis.

 

[deserteagle50]

CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT THIS MEANS????????



4.7—Reference to more than one committee; effect
(1) In case of multiple reference of a bill, it shall be considered by each
committee separately in the order in which the multiple reference is made.
However, if any committee to which the bill is referred makes an unfavorable
report on said bill, that report shall be filed with the Senate and no
further consideration given by other committees except by a two‑thirds
(2/3) vote of those Senators present.
(2) If a committee reports a bill favorably with committee substitute
which substantially amends the bill, the President may change or correct
the reference of the committee substitute. Notice shall be given to the
Secretary of the Senate and the introducer of the bill. Other committee
consideration shall be directed to the substitute and not to the original

 

[skk123]

CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT THIS MEANS???



4.7—Reference to more than one committee; effect
(1) In case of multiple reference of a bill, it shall be considered by each
committee separately in the order in which the multiple reference is made.
However, if any committee to which the bill is referred makes an unfavorable
report on said bill, that report shall be filed with the Senate and no
further consideration given by other committees except by a two‑thirds
(2/3) vote of those Senators present.
(2) If a committee reports a bill favorably with committee substitute
which substantially amends the bill, the President may change or correct
the reference of the committee substitute. Notice shall be given to the
Secretary of the Senate and the introducer of the bill. Other committee
consideration shall be directed to the substitute and not to the original

It's pretty clear, but ill try to help you out.

In a nutshell


When a bill is referred to committees, it is reviewed by each separately. If a committee votes a bill down, one can file a motion to reconsider, which needs 2/3 majority to be reconsidered.

If a committee substitute amending the bill is passed, the president can then review it and refer the amended bill to different committees.

 

[deserteagle50]

It's pretty clear, but ill try to help you out.

In a nutshell


When a bill is referred to committees, it is reviewed by each separately. If a committee votes a bill down, one can file a motion to reconsider, which needs 2/3 majority to be reconsidered.

If a committee substitute amending the bill is passed, the president can then review it and refer the amended bill to different committees.

so what does this mean for open carry?

04/18/2011 Senate • Pending reference review -under Rule 4.7(2) - (Committee Substitute)

 

[jonkknox]

so what does this mean for open carry?

04/18/2011 Senate • Pending reference review -under Rule 4.7(2) - (Committee Substitute)

Nothing, really. It's the normal process for bills that are replaced with committee substitutes. This bill got a CS because it changed in the committee- (the amendment that made the retail folks shut up). Next step for the bill is the Senate floor.

 

[77zach]

My sleep has always been easily disturbed but SB 234 kept me up last night for the first time! I had nightmares of neocons voting no and we lost by 1 vote! Too many charged committee meetings with liars trashing our rights have left an impression on my brain I guess.

 

[ixtow]

come-uppance possibly en-route....

 

[oogotbagsoo]

come-uppance possibly en-route....

elaborate?

 

[77zach]

elaborate?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-orange-deputy-under-fdle-probe-20110418,0,4418586.story

 

[Diver48]

Condensed version....Thanks Rick sent to all senators!

April 18, 2011

Subject: SB234

Dear Senator,

I, as a Voter/American Citizen/Floridian, require that you vote YES on the up-coming Senate Bill 234. Your positive approach to this bill is vital to its passing, and will also be vital in the next voting session in regards to who will be seated in the new State Senate. This bill at hand, SB234, will be a great opportunity to show that you see the American People and their rights as being guaranteed and unalterable. Passing this bill is also going to show the people of Florida that you can be trusted with the position you were appointed to.

Constitutionally this bill should never have been required nor deemed illegal in the first place (1987). This is one of our rights as an American people according to the United States Constitution and the Florida Constitution and WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND OUR RIGHTS. I for one will not let this stand if you or any others on the senate floor vote no and it fails. Our Governor has promised to sign this bill into law as soon as it hits his desk.
I ask that you to vote YES to this bill.

 

[firedog]

April 18, 2011

Subject: SB234

Dear Senator,

I, as a Voter/American Citizen/Floridian, require that you vote YES on the up-coming Senate Bill 234. Your positive approach to this bill is vital to its passing, and will also be vital in the next voting session in regards to who will be seated in the new State Senate. This bill at hand, SB234, will be a great opportunity to show that you see the American People and their rights as being guaranteed and unalterable. Passing this bill is also going to show the people of Florida that you can be trusted with the position you were appointed to.

Constitutionally this bill should never have been required nor deemed illegal in the first place (1987). This is one of our rights as an American people according to the United States Constitution and the Florida Constitution and WE THE PEOPLE DEMAND OUR RIGHTS. I for one will not let this stand if you or any others on the senate floor vote no and it fails. Our Governor has promised to sign this bill into law as soon as it hits his desk.
I ask that you to vote YES to this bill.

Ok, here is one I'm sending in the next few days. Please comment with suggestions for edit. Not to long I hope. I hope this one might catch the eye of any of the Rep/Dem that are riding the fence.firedog@cfl.rr.com

Dear Senator,
As a voter, Floridian and American citizen I write to you in support of SB234. Your positive approach to this bill is vital to its passing. The recent video from the rules committee demonstrated the false representations presented by the Florida Sheriff’s Association. This bill does not endanger the citizens, or any law enforcement officers in the state of Florida. The position of the sheriff’s association is contrary to their position in 1987 when they proclaimed concealed carry would endanger them and opted for open carry. Today, after their premonitions concerning concealed carry did not prove correct they are perpetrating another false presumption against open carry.

This law is necessary to protect the law abiding citizens of Florida who hold concealed carry weapons permits. It has been stated many times in committee that CCW holders who inadvertently or accidentally allow their weapons to be seen are in violation of the law and subject to detention and prosecution. It is irrelevant the fact that no citizen has been prosecuted for accidently displaying his concealed weapon. Absent of prosecution the current law still made any such citizen subject to arrest by an inadvertent and accidental act.

I can personally relate on two occasions that I personally did it. On one of those occasions while proceeding into a convenience store I failed to put on a jacket to cover my concealed weapon. Upon exiting the store I was approached by a deputy sheriff and asked if I had a permit. After polite and professional exchange of words and presenting my permit the officer informed me that I could be arrested and detained. The officer stated that I needed to be mindful next time and I fully accepted his professional attempt to educate me. The fact that I did not cover my weapon made me an unintentional criminal. As I am a professional firefighter who holds a United States government security clearance the mere arrest (lack prosecution) could have place my livelihood and clearance in jeopardy. As a law abiding citizen and professional dedicated to the safety of the public I should not be required by law, in 100 degree plus Florida temperatures, to put on a jacket or additional layers of clothing simply because I choose to prevail myself of a constitutional right to bear arms and maintain my own personal safety and that of my family.

I implore you to support SB234 to protect me and other law abiding citizens that hold CCW permits. Many of who have supported you in your endeavors to serve us in the political processes of elections. Added: . 1.9 million voters are asking. Your position will be clear and remembered.

Sincerely,

 

[77zach]

Ok, here is one I'm sending in the next few days. Please comment with suggestions for edit. Not to long I hope.

It's good. I say we ditch the smokescreen and also stress that accidental exposure is not what we're worried about. What is outrageous is that current law chills a natural right. Carrying a weapon is always subject to the rights of private property owners, but the government should not use its force to make us carry in the most useless and uncomfortable manner there is.

Tell them "this aggression will not stand, man".

 

[StogieC]

Making demands will get you nowhere. Point out the problems with the open carry ban and ask your legislators to help.

 

[ixtow]

As gross as it seems, these people don't see themselves as public servants. You have to get on your knees and supplicate or you are likely to get the opposite results.

While I'm very much the sort that would rather threaten them and tell them to get in their damn place and respect We the People; I know it won't have a positive outcome if I do that... I feel your pain, I really do. But we have to play nice... grumble...

 

[77zach]

I can't help but wonder if Boggie and Alexander could be convinced to abstain if the terms of 234 were couched differently; as in how it was explained in the House. They don't see OC prohibition as an infringement. I think they honestly see it as an issue of CCers who don't want to have to worry about incidental exposure. If other lawmakers, constituents, and the NRA stressed this, perhaps we wouldn't be sweating so badly right now.

I don't presume to know more than Evers, and if he's not as nervous as he seems, maybe he knows that coming out with the truth will work against us in the senate.

All I know is, the approach we're advocating got a lot of apparently reluctant south florida republicans to go along with HB 517, and even a handful of democrats.

 

[firedog]

Ok, here is one I'm sending in the next few days. Please comment with suggestions for edit. Not to long I hope. I hope this one might catch the eye of any of the Rep/Dem that are riding the fence.firedog@cfl.rr.com

Dear Senator,
As a voter, Floridian and American citizen I write to you in support of SB234. Your positive approach to this bill is vital to its passing. The recent video from the rules committee demonstrated the false representations presented by the Florida Sheriff’s Association. This bill does not endanger the citizens, or any law enforcement officers in the state of Florida. The position of the sheriff’s association is contrary to their position in 1987 when they proclaimed concealed carry would endanger them and opted for open carry. Today, after their premonitions concerning concealed carry did not prove correct they are perpetrating another false presumption against open carry.

This law is necessary to protect the law abiding citizens of Florida who hold concealed carry weapons permits. It has been stated many times in committee that CCW holders who inadvertently or accidentally allow their weapons to be seen are in violation of the law and subject to detention and prosecution. It is irrelevant the fact that no citizen has been prosecuted for accidently displaying his concealed weapon. Absent of prosecution the current law still made any such citizen subject to arrest by an inadvertent and accidental act.

I can personally relate on two occasions that I personally did it. On one of those occasions while proceeding into a convenience store I failed to put on a jacket to cover my concealed weapon. Upon exiting the store I was approached by a deputy sheriff and asked if I had a permit. After polite and professional exchange of words and presenting my permit the officer informed me that I could be arrested and detained. The officer stated that I needed to be mindful next time and I fully accepted his professional attempt to educate me. The fact that I did not cover my weapon made me an unintentional criminal. As I am a professional firefighter who holds a United States government security clearance the mere arrest (lack prosecution) could have place my livelihood and clearance in jeopardy. As a law abiding citizen and professional dedicated to the safety of the public I should not be required by law, in 100 degree plus Florida temperatures, to put on a jacket or additional layers of clothing simply because I choose to prevail myself of a constitutional right to bear arms and maintain my own personal safety and that of my family.

I implore you to support SB234 to protect me and other law abiding citizens that hold CCW permits. Many of who have supported you in your endeavors to serve us in the political processes of elections. Added: . 1.9 million voters are asking. Your position will be clear and remembered.

Sincerely,

The replies are starting to come in. I got this one from Dean

"*$#* (Real name removed),
Thank you for writing me and expressing your support for Senate Bill 234. I will keep your thoughts in mind during this legislative Session. Please continue to write in regards to issues that are important to you. You can track the status of Senate Bill 234, and others, by logging on to www.flsenate.gov.

-Charlie"

You guys have him listed as a (R) Nay, is he a strong "nay" on SB234?

***************************************************
Got this one from Altman who is my rep.
"Lieutenant #*$)* (real name removed),

Thank you for contacting Senator Altman. The Senator is a proud supporter of the Second Amendment and not only supports SB 234, he is also a co-sponsor of the bill.

If you have any further questions, concerns, or need assistance, please feel free to contact Senator Altman's office anytime.

Best Regards,

Jeff Ivey
Florida State Senator Thad Altman
District 24"
***************************************************
When I spoke with Senator Haridopolos he also supports the bill, which you guys already posted as a supporter. I'm still waiting for more to come in. Hope these emails are helping....