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OC and Motorcycles

Riverdog

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
34
Location
Kennewick, Washington, USA
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I have been wondering about OC while riding a motorcycle. My CPL renewal hasn't come through yet (I'm an idiot and let it lapse) and I'll be doing a weekend motorcycle camping ride in the Olympics. Having read RCW 9.41.050, specifically section 2a:

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
Now I understand that a motorcycle is considered a vehicle. However, the "in" gives me cause to question, as I technically ride on the externals of the vehicle.

So, does anyone have experience or expertise in the matter? In my head my options are:
  1. Open carry a loaded firearm on the motorcycle and see where that leads
  2. Open carry an unloaded firearm, keeping a magazine handy
  3. Store the pistol in my locking box in my saddle bag
Away from the motorcycle I'll be OCing. I'm just curious my options while riding.
 

Hammer

Regular Member
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Jun 9, 2008
Messages
450
Location
Skagit Valley, Washington
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Riverdog wrote:
I have been wondering about OC while riding a motorcycle. My CPL renewal hasn't come through yet (I'm an idiot and let it lapse) and I'll be doing a weekend motorcycle camping ride in the Olympics. Having read RCW 9.41.050, specifically section 2a:

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
Now I understand that a motorcycle is considered a vehicle. However, the "in" gives me cause to question, as I technically ride on the externals of the vehicle.

So, does anyone have experience or expertise in the matter? In my head my options are:
  1. Open carry a loaded firearm on the motorcycle and see where that leads
  2. Open carry an unloaded firearm, keeping a magazine handy
  3. Store the pistol in my locking box in my saddle bag
Away from the motorcycle I'll be OCing. I'm just curious my options while riding.

I have a very secure Fobus I use to OC on my bike. As far as "in" or "on" when an LEO can show me how to ride "in" my M/C I'll comply, but until then will have to use my common sense in vehicle operation. One of my prime concerns is retention while riding, and if I should fall, retention then. While I can easily stand on my head and not drop the pistol, all kinds of other forces prevail when riding. I "check" mine frequently by bumping it with my elbow, just to be sure it is in place.
I know of many that carry in a tank bag or inside a coat. I'd have to interpret the law as a tank bag being illegal. Inside the coat requires a CPL. I use that method often when I'm wearing a large coat anyway.
 

Bear 45/70

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
3,256
Location
Union, Washington, USA
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Hammer wrote:
Riverdog wrote:
I have been wondering about OC while riding a motorcycle. My CPL renewal hasn't come through yet (I'm an idiot and let it lapse) and I'll be doing a weekend motorcycle camping ride in the Olympics. Having read RCW 9.41.050, specifically section 2a:

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
Now I understand that a motorcycle is considered a vehicle. However, the "in" gives me cause to question, as I technically ride on the externals of the vehicle.

So, does anyone have experience or expertise in the matter? In my head my options are:
  1. Open carry a loaded firearm on the motorcycle and see where that leads
  2. Open carry an unloaded firearm, keeping a magazine handy
  3. Store the pistol in my locking box in my saddle bag
Away from the motorcycle I'll be OCing. I'm just curious my options while riding.
I have a very secure Fobus I use to OC on my bike. As far as "in" or "on" when an LEO can show me how to ride "in" my M/C I'll comply, but until then will have to use my common sense in vehicle operation. One of my prime concerns is retention while riding, and if I should fall, retention then. While I can easily stand on my head and not drop the pistol, all kinds of other forces prevail when riding. I "check" mine frequently by bumping it with my elbow, just to be sure it is in place.
I know of many that carry in a tank bag or inside a coat. I'd have to interpret the law as a tank bag being illegal. Inside the coat requires a CPL. I use that method often when I'm wearing a large coat anyway.
If you are looking to have your trip to the Olympics badly screwed up then follow Hammers advice. Since you are still waiting for the CPL renewal the safest course of action is to not carry loaded on your bike. There is no AG opinion on this or a court case on this issue and untill there is you should not do it, unless of course you want to be the test case.
 

Riverdog

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
34
Location
Kennewick, Washington, USA
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Bear 45/70 wrote:
If you are looking to have your trip to the Olympics badly screwed up then follow Hammers advice. Since you are still waiting for the CPL renewal the safest course of action is to not carry loaded on your bike. There is no AG opinion on this or a court case on this issue and untill there is you should not do it, unless of course you want to be the test case.
That's among my real concerns. While I don't mind helping blaze a trail, my weekends like this are few and far between and I'm disinclined to spend any of it in jail ;)
 

Bear 45/70

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May 22, 2007
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3,256
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Union, Washington, USA
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Riverdog wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
If you are looking to have your trip to the Olympics badly screwed up then follow Hammers advice. Since you are still waiting for the CPL renewal the safest course of action is to not carry loaded on your bike. There is no AG opinion on this or a court case on this issue and untill there is you should not do it, unless of course you want to be the test case.
That's among my real concerns. While I don't mind helping blaze a trail, my weekends like this are few and far between and I'm disinclined to spend any of it in jail ;)
I live here, next to the Olympics and the cops here aren't normally running around looking to give people grief, tourism is our bread and butter. But God forbid you get stopped by the guy that his wife told him NO! this morning or whatever. Open carry in the woods will not be an issue unless you get into the Olympic National Park.
 

Phssthpok

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Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
1,026
Location
, ,
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Bear 45/70 wrote:
Riverdog wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
If you are looking to have your trip to the Olympics badly screwed up then follow Hammers advice. Since you are still waiting for the CPL renewal the safest course of action is to not carry loaded on your bike. There is no AG opinion on this or a court case on this issue and untill there is you should not do it, unless of course you want to be the test case.
That's among my real concerns. While I don't mind helping blaze a trail, my weekends like this are few and far between and I'm disinclined to spend any of it in jail ;)
I live here, next to the Olympics and the cops here aren't normally running around looking to give people grief, tourism is our bread and butter. But God forbid you get stopped by the guy that his wife told him NO! this morning or whatever. Open carry in the woods will not be an issue unless you get into the Olympic National Park.

Didn't we also come to a consensus that even the ROADS (US 101 included) going THROUGH the NP boundaries were verboten for carry... loaded or otherwise?
 

Hammer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
450
Location
Skagit Valley, Washington
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Bear 45/70 wrote
If you are looking to have your trip to the Olympics badly screwed up then follow Hammers advice. Since you are still waiting for the CPL renewal the safest course of action is to not carry loaded on your bike. There is no AG opinion on this or a court case on this issue and untill there is you should not do it, unless of course you want to be the test case.

Help me out- point out what "advice" I gave. I told what I do- I don't recall telling someone lacking their CPL to do the same.
 

Hammer

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Messages
450
Location
Skagit Valley, Washington
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Phssthpok wrote:

Didn't we also come to a consensus that even the ROADS (US 101 included) going THROUGH the NP boundaries were verboten for carry... loaded or otherwise?

I think you're generally right.
It does bring to mind an encounter I had some years ago.
I was up pretty high on Hwy 20, within Cascades NP. I found black ice in a shady corner and wrecked my bike- pretty bad.
I was out for a while, but when I came to a NP Ranger was attending me. He had "relieved me" of my P11 I was carrying at the time. I was within the NP, after all.
I spent 3 mo in a body cast from it. He came by my place 2 weeks later to return the gun. Said "be careful carrying that in the NP"
and that was all of it.
I think there is some effort to change this, but haven't tried to find out what is being suggested.
 

Riverdog

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Jun 25, 2008
Messages
34
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Kennewick, Washington, USA
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Hammer wrote:
It does bring to mind an encounter I had some years ago.
I was up pretty high on Hwy 20, within Cascades NP. I found black ice in a shady corner and wrecked my bike- pretty bad.
I was out for a while, but when I came to a NP Ranger was attending me. He had "relieved me" of my P11 I was carrying at the time. I was within the NP, after all.
I spent 3 mo in a body cast from it. He came by my place 2 weeks later to return the gun. Said "be careful carrying that in the NP"
and that was all of it.
I think there is some effort to change this, but haven't tried to find out what is being suggested.
Always sorry to hear about a bad motorcycle wreck like that. Sounds like you've rebounded, though!

I believe the Bush administration is attempting to pass legislation that would make the carry laws in the NPs the same as the state they reside. Hopefully it goes somewhere.
 

Bear 45/70

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May 22, 2007
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Union, Washington, USA
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Hammer wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote
If you are looking to have your trip to the Olympics badly screwed up then follow Hammers advice. Since you are still waiting for the CPL renewal the safest course of action is to not carry loaded on your bike. There is no AG opinion on this or a court case on this issue and untill there is you should not do it, unless of course you want to be the test case.

Help me out- point out what "advice" I gave. I told what I do- I don't recall telling someone lacking their CPL to do the same.
I believe you said something to the effect that until they prove to you that you can be in on a motorcycle you would carry anyway. Ah, yes here is what you said;

"As far as "in" or "on" when an LEO can show me how to ride "in" my M/C I'll comply, but until then will have to use my common sense in vehicle operation."

If you are sans a CPL and get stopped, the officer will demonstrate nothing, he will write you or arrest you and let the judge decide. But your weekend trip will be totally screwed if he decides to arrest and it just ain't worth it until either an AG opinion or a test case comes about. Me thinks you common sense may make you a test case. Have fun spending your life's saving doing it.

Riverdog, (interesting handle as the Skokomish Indians here call themselves Riverdogs) You can carryyour pistol if it is unloaded, on yourself, concealed even, but not a good idea. Just put it unloaded in a bag and if the officer comes up with a reason to search, tell the officer ahead of time. It may prevent you from ending up looking down is pistol barrel. Let me tell you, not a fun experience because at that point he is super nervous and has way to much adrenalin pumping thru his system.
rolleyes.gif
 

kparker

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Nov 10, 2006
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Location
Tacoma, Washington, USA
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Didn't we also come to a consensus that even the ROADS (US 101 included) going THROUGH the NP boundaries were verboten for carry... loaded or otherwise?
Almost. Loaded carry is absolutely prohibited, but you can still transport any legal firearm in unloaded and inaccessible condition. How to arrange this in a satisfactory way on a motorcycle is left as an exercise for the reader.
 

Riverdog

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Jun 25, 2008
Messages
34
Location
Kennewick, Washington, USA
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Bear 45/70 wrote:
Riverdog, (interesting handle as the Skokomish Indians here call themselves Riverdogs) You can carryyour pistol if it is unloaded, on yourself, concealed even, but not a good idea. Just put it unloaded in a bag and if the officer comes up with a reason to search, tell the officer ahead of time. It may prevent you from ending up looking down is pistol barrel. Let me tell you, not a fun experience because at that point he is super nervous and has way to much adrenalin pumping thru his system.
rolleyes.gif
That's an interesting thing about Riverdog I did not know! I chose the handle because of my fondness of both the Columbia river and the water retriever dogs I've had over the years.

I'd say I'm inclined to agree with you 100% that my best option, pending my CPL renewal, is to ride with my pistol in a case in my saddlebags. I guess I'll have to wait for someone to make a guinea pig out of themselves before OCing on a motorcycle without a CPL!
 

Hammer

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Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
450
Location
Skagit Valley, Washington
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Bear 45/70 wrote:
Hammer wrote:

Help me out- point out what "advice" I gave. I told what I do- I don't recall telling someone lacking their CPL to do the same.
I believe you said something to the effect that until they prove to you that you can be in on a motorcycle you would carry anyway. Ah, yes here is what you said;

"As far as "in" or "on" when an LEO can show me how to ride "in" my M/C I'll comply, but until then will have to use my common sense in vehicle operation."

If you are sans a CPL and get stopped, the officer will demonstrate nothing, he will write you or arrest you and let the judge decide. But your weekend trip will be totally screwed if he decides to arrest and it just ain't worth it until either an AG opinion or a test case comes about. Me thinks you common sense may make you a test case. Have fun spending your life's saving doing it.

Riverdog, (interesting handle as the Skokomish Indians here call themselves Riverdogs) You can carryyour pistol if it is unloaded, on yourself, concealed even, but not a good idea. Just put it unloaded in a bag and if the officer comes up with a reason to search, tell the officer ahead of time. It may prevent you from ending up looking down is pistol barrel. Let me tell you, not a fun experience because at that point he is super nervous and has way to much adrenalin pumping thru his system.
rolleyes.gif
OK
I'm going to say it real slow this time
What
advice
did
I
give
As I said, I told what I do. I don't recall telling anyone else to do likewise.
Read it carefully. Try not to ASSume anything into what I said.
If you point out the "Advice" I gave, I'll buy ya a pistol.
Question is, will you do the same for me if none was given? :cool:
 

Bear 45/70

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Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
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Location
Union, Washington, USA
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Riverdog wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
Riverdog, (interesting handle as the Skokomish Indians here call themselves Riverdogs) You can carryyour pistol if it is unloaded, on yourself, concealed even, but not a good idea. Just put it unloaded in a bag and if the officer comes up with a reason to search, tell the officer ahead of time. It may prevent you from ending up looking down is pistol barrel. Let me tell you, not a fun experience because at that point he is super nervous and has way to much adrenalin pumping thru his system.
rolleyes.gif
That's an interesting thing about Riverdog I did not know! I chose the handle because of my fondness of both the Columbia river and the water retriever dogs I've had over the years.

I'd say I'm inclined to agree with you 100% that my best option, pending my CPL renewal, is to ride with my pistol in a case in my saddlebags. I guess I'll have to wait for someone to make a guinea pig out of themselves before OCing on a motorcycle without a CPL!
The Skok's call their casino the Riverdog. If you come up Highway 101 from Olympia you will pass right by it just past the Skokomish River and the Highway 106 junction.

I would think you don't need a pistol case inside the saddlebag as the saddle bag would met the definition of an opaque case.
 

Hammer

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Skagit Valley, Washington
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Riverdog wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
Riverdog, (interesting handle as the Skokomish Indians here call themselves Riverdogs) You can carryyour pistol if it is unloaded, on yourself, concealed even, but not a good idea. Just put it unloaded in a bag and if the officer comes up with a reason to search, tell the officer ahead of time. It may prevent you from ending up looking down is pistol barrel. Let me tell you, not a fun experience because at that point he is super nervous and has way to much adrenalin pumping thru his system.
rolleyes.gif
That's an interesting thing about Riverdog I did not know! I chose the handle because of my fondness of both the Columbia river and the water retriever dogs I've had over the years.

I'd say I'm inclined to agree with you 100% that my best option, pending my CPL renewal, is to ride with my pistol in a case in my saddlebags. I guess I'll have to wait for someone to make a guinea pig out of themselves before OCing on a motorcycle without a CPL!
If your bags lock (mine do) and your ammo is separate from the bag with the pistol, I would think that is acceptable.
But this should not be interpreted as giving advice or a legal opinion. :cool:
 

Bear 45/70

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Hammer wrote:
OK
I'm going to say it real slow this time
What
advice
did
I
give
As I said, I told what I do. I don't recall telling anyone else to do likewise.
Read it carefully. Try not to ASSume anything into what I said.
If you point out the "Advice" I gave, I'll buy ya a pistol.
Question is, will you do the same for me if none was given? :cool:
When you tell someone what you would do, that is the same as telling them you think they will be OK doing as you do. What other reason would you have for telling them what you would do? Riverdog asked for advise, your answer has to be assumed to be advise, otherwise why answer at all? I real want a BFR 7 1/2" in 45/70.
 

Bear 45/70

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Union, Washington, USA
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Hammer wrote:
Riverdog wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
Riverdog, (interesting handle as the Skokomish Indians here call themselves Riverdogs) You can carryyour pistol if it is unloaded, on yourself, concealed even, but not a good idea. Just put it unloaded in a bag and if the officer comes up with a reason to search, tell the officer ahead of time. It may prevent you from ending up looking down is pistol barrel. Let me tell you, not a fun experience because at that point he is super nervous and has way to much adrenalin pumping thru his system.
rolleyes.gif
That's an interesting thing about Riverdog I did not know! I chose the handle because of my fondness of both the Columbia river and the water retriever dogs I've had over the years.

I'd say I'm inclined to agree with you 100% that my best option, pending my CPL renewal, is to ride with my pistol in a case in my saddlebags. I guess I'll have to wait for someone to make a guinea pig out of themselves before OCing on a motorcycle without a CPL!
If your bags lock (mine do) and your ammo is separate from the bag with the pistol, I would think that is acceptable.
But this should not be interpreted as giving advice or a legal opinion. :cool:
The bag does not have to be locked as long as he is with the M/C and if he is gonna OC when not on the bike the the lock is unnecessary. Where does it say the ammo has to be seperate? Not in the gun is all I've ever read.
 

Hammer

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Messages
450
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Skagit Valley, Washington
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Bear 45/70 wrote
When you tell someone what you would do, that is the same as telling them you think they will be OK doing as you do. What other reason would you have for telling them what you would do? Riverdog asked for advise, your answer has to be assumed to be advise, otherwise why answer at all? I real want a BFR 7 1/2" in 45/70.

Most definitely not. I do not at any time advise someone else, unless my statement is preceded by "My advise to you is_____"
It takes an ASSumption- I'mk sure you know how that breaks down- to take my statement of what I do and figure someone else can do the same.
So, ya gonna buy one of those BFR's for each of us? :cool:
 

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
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Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
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Phssthpok wrote:
Didn't we also come to a consensus that even the ROADS (US 101 included) going THROUGH the NP boundaries were verboten for carry... loaded or otherwise?
Per a previous post I made after email exchange with the Park Ranger.

National Park Service regulations (including firearms/weapon regulations)
in Title 36 of the Code of Federal Regulations (36 CFR) apply on US Hwy 101
through the park. That includes the prohibition against loaded and
concealed weapons, even if the person in possession of the weapon has a
state or county concealed-carry permit.


Feel free to call me if you have any questions,

Kevin Hendricks
Chief Park Ranger
Olympic National Park
360-565-3110
 
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