OC and Motorcycles

[Hammer]

imported post

Bear 45/70 wrote:

Please explain why once he gets his CPL, he can't OC on the bike?

Best reason the whole crowd here will applaud:
no matter what I say, it's another you vs. me. It's not about facts, it's about arguing and who "wins"
Thanks but no thanks.
How 'bout you just explain to him why he can....

 

[Sean]

imported post

Bear 45/70 wrote:

Please explain why once he gets his CPL, he can't OC on the bike?

You can open carry on a M/C with a CPL. I did it. A Kitsap county deputy pulled up next to me and asked if I had a CPL, I replied Yes do you want me to pull over and show it to you...he said no and we both went on our way. By the RCW a gun in a vehicle in plain sight is still considered concealed...so why not put it in plain sight. Now maybe he was just a great guy...but if he could have busted me I think he would have. I would carry it in my windshield bag if it was a little more sturdy...I don't amuse myself with trying to figure out if I could hit anything from a moving motorcycle...I would hit the ground with the bike on top of me if I tried.



Normally I do wear my leather vest over my gun, but that day I wasn't.



As to Long Guns...I removed the bolt from my winchester 300 Winmag and put it in one saddle bag, put my ammo in the other saddlebag and slung my rifle on my back and headed for the range on Clear Creek...about 4 miles from my house...speed limit 50 mph the whole way....didn't make it 2 miles when the deputies were coming from both directions with lights and sirens blazing....I saw them coming and pulled over to let emergency vehicles go by....except I was the emergency. Once they saw the bolt removed, and ammo, bolt and rifle not really accessible to me while driving we kind of laughed it off...but they requested that I use the truck next time.

 

[kparker]

imported post

By the RCW a gun in a vehicle in plain sight is still considered concealed

Well, as long as we're referring to the RCW, let's be careful not to go beyond what it actually says. There is no wording that says, "Carrying (a loaded handgun) in/on a vehicle is considered concealed", it says "carrying (a loaded handgun) in/on a vehicle is prohibited unless you have a CPL." The "in the car means concealed" rationale may well be the reason that particular section ended up in the RCW, but the text of the statute doesn't say that.

 

[Agent 47]

imported post

kparker wrote:

By the RCW a gun in a vehicle in plain sight is still considered concealed

Well, as long as we're referring to the RCW, let's be careful not to go beyond what it actually says. There is no wording that says, "Carrying (a loaded handgun) in/on a vehicle is considered concealed", it says "carrying (a loaded handgun) in/on a vehicle is prohibited unless you have a CPL." The "in the car means concealed" rationale may well be the reason that particular section ended up in the RCW, but the text of the statute doesn't say that.

The law does not say anything about carrying a loaded handgun on a vehicle being illegal. In-fact it it's clear, given they only banned carrying a loaded handgun in a vehicle without a CPL and didn't say carrying a loaded handgun on a vehicle without a CPL was illegal their intent was to prevent what would effectively be carrying a concealed pistol without a licence. Even in other laws that make it illegal to carry a loaded long gun the legislatures wrote that it is illegal to carry a loaded long gun in or on a vehicle but no such distinction exists for handguns. also as the law is talking about placing a loaded handgun into a vehicle and does not even use the words carry or carrying to describe the unlawful act it is obvious that the law is not even directly focused on people carrying a gun rather on someone who may be transporting a loaded handgun hidden within a vehicle.

 

[kparker]

imported post

Hey, if you want to be the test case revolving around the presence/absence of "in " along with "on", be my guest!

Me, I don't trust our courts to be nearly that rational.

 

[FireFighterchen]

Any update on whether its ok to carry loaded on a motorcycle? It's been a while since this thread has been active...so hopefully I get a response.

 

[sandy]

It requires a CPL, or you might be a test case

Any update on whether its ok to carry loaded on a motorcycle? It's been a while since this thread has been active...so hopefully I get a response.

If you have a CPL, I think everyone is in agreement that you can OC or CC on a motorcycle. I OC on my motorcycle frequently, but I also have a CPL.

If you don't have a CPL, there's no sound answer to give. It seems there is no case law anyone can point to that clarifies the definition of "in a vehicle" as it applies to a vehicle with no insides, so you're in untested waters. Either play it safe, or take a risk knowing you might be the test case that answers this question for the rest of us.

Pure opinion now: If I were the AG and I was clarifying this law for you, I'd say that "in a vehicle" simply means "anywhere in/on a vehicle," and is inclusive of motorcycle riding, the bed of a pickup, or an open convertible. Get a CPL if you want to carry on the road.

 

[Lammo]

Any update on whether its ok to carry loaded on a motorcycle? It's been a while since this thread has been active...so hopefully I get a response.

Despite my intent to try to get the boss to get an AGO on this I haven't had the time to do so (hey, it took two years for me to finally get around to burning our Drug Unit Playlist onto CDs).

I think it's safe to say that the only way to properly carry a loaded handgun while riding a motorcycle is to duct tape it to your forehead (sorry, semi-private joke).

But seriously, until there is a case or a change in the statute that clarifies this, I would not carry a loaded handgun while riding a motorcycle without a CPL.

IAALBSIAAFTDPTAINLA.

PS - - as of July 1, 2011, if a CPL is required to carry a loaded handgun while riding a motorcycle, and if "vehicle" for the purposes of RCW 9.41.050 is defined by use of RCW 46.04.670, then a CPL will also be required to carry a loaded handgun while riding a bicycle. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04.670 Since "vehicle" is not defined in RCW 9.41 for the purposes of that chapter, it seems logical that a court would look for a definition elsewhere in the RCWs. Since Title 46 is the one that deals with vehicles, I think that's where a court would have to look.

 

[jt59]

Despite my intent to try to get the boss to get an AGO on this I haven't had the time to do so (hey, it took two years for me to finally get around to burning our Drug Unit Playlist onto CDs).

I think it's safe to say that the only way to properly carry a loaded handgun while riding a motorcycle is to duct tape it to your forehead (sorry, semi-private joke).

But seriously, until there is a case or a change in the statute that clarifies this, I would not carry a loaded handgun while riding a motorcycle without a CPL.

IAALBSIAAFTDPTAINLA.

PS - - as of July 1, 2011, if a CPL is required to carry a loaded handgun while riding a motorcycle, and if "vehicle" for the purposes of RCW 9.41.050 is defined by use of RCW 46.04.670, then a CPL will also be required to carry a loaded handgun while riding a bicycle. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04.670 Since "vehicle" is not defined in RCW 9.41 for the purposes of that chapter, it seems logical that a court would look for a definition elsewhere in the RCWs. Since Title 46 is the one that deals with vehicles, I think that's where a court would have to look.

Geez, nice pick up...you just don't know what these guys in Oly are up to....I am sure it's something devious....like in order to get additional federal funding for the bond issue in King County from the federal gov't and to cover the additional cost of adding "bike" lanes to the the improvement proposal to pay for it, someone had to redifine bicycles as "vehicles" to allow it to be included in the funding mechanisim.....and now with Patty on the Super Committee as Co-chair, we'll be sure to get a balanced approach to funding of these important issues. (rant off)

I dropped a line to the bill sponsor's with the question and the apparent conflict....their responses will be interesting.

http://seattle.gov/transportation/BridgingtheGap.htm

I OC on my Road King all the time.....but have my CPL....so....?

 

[amzbrady]

Despite my intent to try to get the boss to get an AGO on this I haven't had the time to do so (hey, it took two years for me to finally get around to burning our Drug Unit Playlist onto CDs).

I think it's safe to say that the only way to properly carry a loaded handgun while riding a motorcycle is to duct tape it to your forehead (sorry, semi-private joke).

But seriously, until there is a case or a change in the statute that clarifies this, I would not carry a loaded handgun while riding a motorcycle without a CPL.

IAALBSIAAFTDPTAINLA.

PS - - as of July 1, 2011, if a CPL is required to carry a loaded handgun while riding a motorcycle, and if "vehicle" for the purposes of RCW 9.41.050 is defined by use of RCW 46.04.670, then a CPL will also be required to carry a loaded handgun while riding a bicycle. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.04.670 Since "vehicle" is not defined in RCW 9.41 for the purposes of that chapter, it seems logical that a court would look for a definition elsewhere in the RCWs. Since Title 46 is the one that deals with vehicles, I think that's where a court would have to look.

I would think if they could charge you with DUI on a bicycle, and a riding lawnmower, I would think they could pretty much make any mode of transportation a ticketable offense. Probably even a skateboard.

 

[Lammo]

I would venture to say that a person could argue that based upon the reason they were riding the bicycle or motorcycle. If they were riding the bicycle or motorcycle for recreational purposes, then why would they not be under the exception in RCW 9.41.060?



I know plenty of people that ride motocycles and bicycles for recreation, and none of them ride them indoors. A horse can be ridden for either recreation purposes or as a mode of transportation, so why not a motorcycle or bicycle?

Glad to know you're still out there Navy and it appears congrats are in order (at least I think Lieutenant Commander is a higher rank than Lieutenant).