Feeling Conflicted, cop assualts civilian and I'm not outraged

[Citizen]

The statements are not in conflict. One statement says that the charges are so minor as to typically not even be prosecuted. The other outlines the typical penalty were the charge to be brought and a conviction to result.

Two absolutely compatible statements.


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Bahahahahahahahahahaaaa!!! Said the guy who will fasten and hold on to a tiny point like a tick.

He didn't say "typically not...prosecuted". He said exactly what I quoted, including the words "never" and "do anything but nolle pros". I even quoted it out twice for Eye.

Moving on from Eye's attempted, poorly executed cop apology.

 

[eye95]

The statements are absolutely compatible.

As I said in the other thread, some really good discussions that could enlighten us all would result if folks would just respond with the rationality and courtesy that PALO was using before the dogpile of childish rudeness began.

Again, I was just pointing out that the statements are completely compatible. Folks reading his posts and mine from a rational perspective will get that. As for everyone else, I don't care. Moving on.


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[sudden valley gunner]

This is an example of your disingenuousness.

What I said is that when it comes to very minor "push'y shove'y" type assaults very frequently, when the person has no priors especially the pros will nolle pros them.

Minor assaults IN GENERAL that are prosecuted (assault IV) usually get a fine and probation.

Those aren't contradictory statements. Only in your quest to seek out stuff to quibble over, is it.

Some stuff is so de minimus it's not charged. I get this with neighbor disputes all the time. Prosecutor is not going to waste his time over a minor pushy' shovey offense. DV is a different animal because it's so politically charged.

I really am trying to avoid devolving to your level, but this is the kind of crap I expect from trolls.

Prosecutors where I work have a sick # of cases on their plate and limited funds. Heck, we have "expedited misdemeanors" where people arrested for felony drug crimes (e.g. possession of cocaine) are given a chance to plea to a misdemeanor AUTOMATICALLY if they have no priors.

Look it up. King County, WA.

Hmmmm King County where the deputies of the Sheriff's department and it's largest city Seattle have a history of excessive force? That King County?

So you think finding people guilty for crimes they didn't commit are ok?

Prosecutors shouldn't get in a huff over minor pushy shovey offense by the general public, they absolutely should by our employees who pretend their duty is to keep the peace.

This happened in Kent.....http://progressiveactionnh.wordpress.com/2012/12/05/cops-gone-wild-in-kent-washington/.....I hope this wasn't the case you were referring too.

And if you do work in Kent it is one of the worse neighborhoods in Washington.

 

[Gunslinger]

Juries tend to be sympathetic to cops.

I guess that depends who is on the jury. Thug cops belong in jail. And they should receive the maximum sentence. This cop is a thug. Actions such as his are a reflection on decent police officers. They should be the most outraged by actions such as this. More's the pity they aren't and the infamous "blue wall" is the usual response.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

Here is a news story covering the event. Sheds a new light on it, IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpNZ22z7B7w
If you feel conflicted about what happened here, you have no commitment to liberty.

 

[MattinWA]

When the good cops become complacent and accepting of the actions of their bad cop brothers then they cease to be good cops. When a group of five or six cops stands around and watches one cop go off the handle, they are ALL bad cops... Is that generalizing?

 

[PALO]

When the good cops become complacent and accepting of the actions of their bad cop brothers then they cease to be good cops. When a group of five or six cops stands around and watches one cop go off the handle, they are ALL bad cops... Is that generalizing?

I think that's a fair statement

 

[sudden valley gunner]

When the good cops become complacent and accepting of the actions of their bad cop brothers then they cease to be good cops. When a group of five or six cops stands around and watches one cop go off the handle, they are ALL bad cops... Is that generalizing?

Not generalizing to speak of something that is systemically wrong. It's why I say there is no bad apple. A bad apple couldn't exist if cops did what you and I and others say they should. The barrel is rotten.

 

[BrianB]

I can respect that opinion, I just have a different one. And fwiw, most cops wouldn't pay for their own lawyer, their union would.

Just to make sure I get where you're coming from, entertain a scenario for me if you will.

Let's say the criminal assailant in this case wasn't a police officer - he is a UPS driver. He's trying to deliver a package and the recipient is being mouthy about the package taking forever to get there. UPS driver gets pissed, smacks the guy on the side of the head, knocking him to the ground. Then kneels on his chest and taunts him for a little while. Should the UPS driver be arrested and charged with battery or not?

 

[MAC702]

Just to make sure I get where you're coming from, entertain a scenario for me if you will.

Let's say the criminal assailant in this case wasn't a police officer - he is a UPS driver. He's trying to deliver a package and the recipient is being mouthy about the package taking forever to get there. UPS driver gets pissed, smacks the guy on the side of the head, knocking him to the ground. Then kneels on his chest and taunts him for a little while. Should the UPS driver be arrested and charged with battery or not?

Absolutely, and that's an outstanding contrast!

Although I'm still wondering if the Teamsters would pay for his lawyer...

 

[PALO]

Absolutely, and that's an outstanding contrast!

Although I'm still wondering if the Teamsters would pay for his lawyer...

The point you make about the contrasts are valid. In my experience, with "minor assaults" (such as a slap in the face), officers (at least in my agency) are usually not charged. I have only seen one outright assault (iow outof the blue slap in the face) of that nature and the guy got 5 days suspension iirc and his corporal stripes were taken away. Considering that was his first offense of that nature, he had an otherwise near spotless record and he had 10 yrs on, I think that was "fair". Excessive force is one thing, an officer can lose control or simply go too far during an OTHERWISE lawful use of force, but an outright ASSAULT e.g. slapping a person in the face merely because he pissed you off is another thing entirely.

I've never had any force complaints, in 20+ yrs, and I would hope that if I "lost it" I would get the same consideration. Regardless, the contrast is a valid complaint and fwiw I gave a statement to IA about the slap because I was not going to stand by and let thuggery go unpunished.

To the best of my knowledge that officer has never had any other force complaints and has had quite an impressive career (he made a few pretty cool high profile arrests). Hopefully he learned his lesson/

fwiw, three officers in my agency were charged with assault in the last couple of years. Imo, one of them was bona fide assault. One got two hung juries(they tried him twice). The other two were acquitted. Of the acquitted one was fired. The other was fired and then rehired with backpay per binding arbitration in his favor

 

[MAC702]

... fwiw I gave a statement to IA about the slap because I was not going to stand by and let thuggery go unpunished. ...

There is no need to answer, as I ask this question just to make people think:

Did you report the incident to IA, or did you just tell the truth when IA asked you about it?

 

[MAC702]

...In my experience, with "minor assaults" (such as a slap in the face), officers (at least in my agency) are usually not charged....

I've never had any force complaints, in 20+ yrs, and I would hope that if I "lost it" I would get the same consideration. ...

Shouldn't the "consideration" be built into the law, and not decided by selective enforcement?

 

[PALO]

There is no need to answer, as I ask this question just to make people think:

Did you report the incident to IA, or did you just tell the truth when IA asked you about it?

He self reported to IA immediately after the incident, to his credit

 

[PALO]

Shouldn't the "consideration" be built into the law, and not decided by selective enforcement?

It's built into prosecutorial discretion. Sometimes that discretion goes against officers as in the decision to retry the misdemeanor assault case after a hung jury. That is almost never done in my jurisdiction, but was done with the officer and the prosecutor admitted so. On the other hand, some relatively minor assaults (slap in the face) the prosecutor is satisfied with dept. discipline and uses his authoritah (discretion) to not charge.

i Can see both sides of the argument and fwiw a 5 day suspension is roughly 2,000 dollars plus the demotion. that's a pretty decent punishment.

For average citizens, very minor assaults are not prosecuted at all sometimes.Moat other misdemeanor prosecutions get probation, a small fine and sometimes are deferred such that if probation is completed, the conviction is wiped from the record.

 

[MAC702]

I agree with prosecutorial discretion, as long as the prosecutor has a track record of equal treatment of LEOs as well as non-LEOs.

I probably misunderstood and was thinking you were referring to the consideration coming from the LEOs as to whether or not the prosecutor was given the case.

 

[PALO]

I agree with prosecutorial discretion, as long as the prosecutor has a track record of equal treatment of LEOs as well as non-LEOs.

I probably misunderstood and was thinking you were referring to the consideration coming from the LEOs as to whether or not the prosecutor was given the case.

In the assault case where the officer got demoted and got 5 days off, the victim actually did not WANT prosecution. Prosecutors CAN prosecute without victims desiring it, but that almost never happens with misdemeanors. Slightly more likely with dv's

I give credit to the ofc for immediately self reporting to IA and takking his lumps

 

[509rifas]

military on military violence...

Cops are supposed to behave professionally. That was not professional.

 

[Logan 5]

Here is a news story covering the event. Sheds a new light on it, IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpNZ22z7B7w
If you feel conflicted about what happened here, you have no commitment to liberty.

I have no conflict, even after watching the first video. The kid may have a mouth on him, but he is still the reporting party, the alleged victim, and Darden is way out of line by making him a victim again. It's not hard to diffuse the situation, that I can see. Just apologize for not being "on time", let the kid know he did his best to get there, and try to leave it at that since they are there now. Technically by assaulting the kid he's also putting the kid under arrest. What for, I'm uncertain of.

military on military violence...

Cops are supposed to behave professionally. That was not professional.

Darden is allegedly USMC (by his own words in the video). Has this been confirmed or not? I am inclined to think he's lying about that as Marines conduct themselves with honor and integrity with the public. In the video no REAL Marine would act like that. Marines are REAL MEN, and this Darden guy just doesn't seem to have what it takes.

 

[OC for ME]

I'll take a misdemeanor conviction with a fine & probation for $200 Alex.

I suspect that a cop who has a criminal record would be very difficult to hire and remain hired. The cop in the video does not deserve jail time but a criminal conviction is warranted. Cops must be held to a higher standard, as a requirement of their profession, and thus be held to a greater degree of account. LE must step aside and let the wayward cop defend himself just as any other citizen is required to do.