Feeling Conflicted, cop assualts civilian and I'm not outraged

[dmatting]

...We can understand the stresses of their very difficult jobs, and how easy it is for them to fall into frustration, rage and illegality in these circumstances, but these real dangers are very much among the reasons that we need to hold them to a higher standard, however much we may sympathize. ...

Perhaps you can sympathize, but I do not. So, please, do not include me in your generalized "we". They chose their profession and they can choose to leave and do something else less stressful.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Perhaps you can sympathize, but I do not. So, please, do not include me in your generalized "we". They chose their profession and they can choose to leave and do something else less stressful.

+1.....because it's so stressful that people don't like professional busy bodies getting all up in their grill....

 

[Gunslinger]

Wow. A lot of discussion over an open and shut situation. Thug cop commits battery because he was a Marine and therefore immune to a society of law. Probably Latrine Orderly. He should be charged accordingly with the criminal act and sued for assault and battery. The real tragedy, it seems, is the victim is too gutless to do so. Discussion of obiter dicta in SC cases that have no bearing on the instant case makes my head hurt.

 

[Gunslinger]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>snip

That is why it is crucial to enhance penalties against the police in the rare circumstances in which they are caught abusing people and violating the law. We can understand the stresses of their very difficult jobs, and how easy it is for them to fall into frustration, rage and illegality in these circumstances, but these real dangers are very much among the reasons that we need to hold them to a higher standard, however much we may sympathize.

.

I sympathize with a drafted soldier in combat who did not choose to be there. I have no sympathy for any pos thug who gets a badge and a gun and doesn't have the intellect, integrity or courage to do the job he's paid for and uphold the oath he took. Dirty cops may be a small minority, but they need to be treated as you would any other cockroach. This guy is a perfect example.

 

[PALO]

A young man who called police is annoyed at the response time and claims rank to the officer.

Officer knocks young man on his ass.

I guess I just don't like people posturing, whether they're saying "I'm a soldier" or "I just got out of the pen".

Maybe I like this because despite the excessive force it was not escalated to 10 officers dog piling and beating him. The officer maintained even tone.

Thoughts?


[video=youtube;p51PGX-PrqQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p51PGX-PrqQ[/video]


P.S. I thought they tazed him for a moment there.

There's no excuse for using physical violence because somebody mouthed off. If you are going to be a cop, you have to have the ability to let that stuff just roll on by. Use verbal judo- when arrow of insult is aimed at head, move your head.

I have seen very very very little excessive force in 20+ yrs of law enforcement, but I am reminded of an incident where a guy who was supposed to be my backup (he was cover, I was contact, which means he should have kept his yap shut and hung back observing), got involved in a ******* math with a young punk and ended up slapping him in the face for spitting on the ground near his feet and mouthing off.

5 day suspension. For a first offense of that type (otherwise spotless record), that was a fair punishment.

And before the double standard brigade makes claims about how a "civilian" would have been prosecuted for a quick slap - outside of the world of DV I have never seen a prosecutor do anything but nolle pros such minor assaults IN MY JURISDICTION.

But he definitely deserved the 5 days off

 

[Citizen]

SNIP And before the double standard brigade makes claims about how a "civilian" would have been prosecuted for a quick slap - outside of the world of DV I have never seen a prosecutor do anything but nolle pros such minor assaults IN MY JURISDICTION.

Thank you for confessing that prosecutors in your area don't consider assault and battery, even by a trusted police officer, worth prosecuting.

Unless it involves a politically sensitive issue like domestic violence, of course.

Keep it coming. We love these little snippets about government not doing its job.



Oh, and my question is why you didn't stop it before it escalated to physical violence? And, why you didn't protect your detainee?

 

[BrianB]

While I admit I don't like the mouthy Army Reservist at all, I'm not "conflicted" in the slightest. Cop should be in jail and the complainant should be enjoying his payday.

If I (not an LEO) am talking to someone - maybe even trying to help them - and I feel they have disrespected me and "stepped up to me", can I slap them in the head, knocking them to the ground, and kneel on their chest while I mock them for a little while? If I can't do it the cops can't either.

Yep, jail for the cop and payday for the victim - that's the way I'd go if I was a jury hearing the respective cases.

 

[OldCurlyWolf]

There's no excuse for using physical violence because somebody mouthed off. If you are going to be a cop, you have to have the ability to let that stuff just roll on by. Use verbal judo- when arrow of insult is aimed at head, move your head.

I have seen very very very little excessive force in 20+ yrs of law enforcement, but I am reminded of an incident where a guy who was supposed to be my backup (he was cover, I was contact, which means he should have kept his yap shut and hung back observing), got involved in a ******* math with a young punk and ended up slapping him in the face for spitting on the ground near his feet and mouthing off.

5 day suspension. For a first offense of that type (otherwise spotless record), that was a fair punishment.

And before the double standard brigade makes claims about how a "civilian" would have been prosecuted for a quick slap - outside of the world of DV I have never seen a prosecutor do anything but nolle pros such minor assaults IN MY JURISDICTION.

But he definitely deserved the 5 days off

I observed a similar incident with another officer, however he got away with it, mainly because the person he slapped was drunk and I was just a cadet on a ride along as part of our academy training.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Thank you for confessing that prosecutors in your area don't consider assault and battery, even by a trusted police officer, worth prosecuting.

Unless it involves a politically sensitive issue like domestic violence, of course.

Keep it coming. We love these little snippets about government not doing its job.



Oh, and my question is why you didn't stop it before it escalated to physical violence? And, why you didn't protect your detainee?

I thought Mayberry was in the South, apparently this is where PALO works? Washington state has a horrible record of both excessive force and lack of prosecution. http://www.policemisconduct.net/2010-npmsrp-police-misconduct-statistical-report/

He has tried this line in the past about how angelic his department is yet he has never divulged what department or where. I call hoey.... my guess is like his view of TV shows, he has witnessed what many of would call abuse but he just saw it as a poor good guy trying to do a tough job.

 

[bbMurphy]

Maybe his name tells us where he's from? PALO = Pennsylvania Law Officer from Kent, PA:question::question::question:

Just my 2 cents.

 

[PALO]

I'll ignore all the childish personal attacks and just say that I have never seen such minor assaults actually prosecuted except for DV in the jurisdicction I work in. There is RCW and there are filing standards. Filing standards are often much more restrictive than the RCW. For example, assault on a PO is a Assault III felony but filing standards in the county of King require MORE than a mere slap of an officer's face for them to file Assault III. They will file Assault IV unless the assaulter has substantial criminal history or there are injuries to the officer beyond mere transient "ouch". That's their filing standards. We routinely go to push'y shov'y type "assault" cases and they never (not once in my experience) go to court. The prosecutor will dump them. That's their "authoritah" . They are the ultimate decider .

A 5 day suspension was a reasonable penalty for the officer. He is a good officer, but he did a bad thing (nobody's perfect) and he was duly punished and life goes on.

It's relatively hard to get a conviction for Assault even when the officer is obviously guilty as hell (e.g. Paul Schene). That case resulted in two mistrials. I've had a few friends in the last 10 yrs charged with assault based on on-duty behavior and every single one was acquitted. Juries tend to be sympathetic to cops.

 

[DocWalker]

Kid was wrong and stupid, but didn't touch the cop.

Cop was wrong for getting physical and showed lack of self control, he should be suspended and forced to take classes and put on department probation. A message needs to be sent.

By the kid not pressing charges the PD will sweep it under the rug and the officer and other LEO's of the department will feel they got a green light to attacke and abuse the citizens. I hope the next officer doesn't do more damage when he losses his cool.

The cop said he was a marine, good training but very reactionary as demonstrated in the video.

 

[PALO]

Kid was wrong and stupid, but didn't touch the cop.

Cop was wrong for getting physical and showed lack of self control, he should be suspended and forced to take classes and put on department probation. A message needs to be sent.

By the kid not pressing charges the PD will sweep it under the rug and the officer and other LEO's of the department will feel they got a green light to attacke and abuse the citizens. I hope the next officer doesn't do more damage when he losses his cool.

The cop said he was a marine, good training but very reactionary as demonstrated in the video.

I agree. His behavior warrants a suspension 2- 5 days depending...

That seems perfectly fair to me

 

[PALO]

Out of the 800,000 LEO in the US, we're surprised to see a few hundred YouTube videos? We only see the bad because that is what gets the majority of people in an uproar. Post a good video of a LEO and people will be "Ok!" or "Good job," and the thread dies in 2 pages. Post something like the topical video, and you'll get three weeks and 20 pages of "Cops are evil!" and various epithets.

For my personal opinion on the video, the cop's actions were overboard for the situation. A guy was just beaten and home violated. Sure, I'd be ticked off too, and the LEO should be cognizant of that. The victim acted immaturely, but that doesn't allow the officer to act the way he did. As much as the victim seems to be someone not to be my friend, I think he does have grounds for police brutality and unlawful detaining.

All LEO should watch the YouTube video of the trooper who gave an old guy a speeding ticket and the guy flipped out. The trooper stood there and took it. Then, when the old guy tore up the ticket and threw it out the window, the trooper told him "If you don't pick that up, I'm going to cite you for littering."

Anecdotal, I have two friends who are LEOs, and are very down to earth, family men, and in my experience, good guys. Just like painting all gun owners with the same brush is bad, so is painting LEOs.

I agree. One of the things that makes being a LEO so rewarding is (and I've cited the gallup poll data supporting this) that most people respect cops and think we are honest and professional. Again,. that's not just personal experience talking, that's nationwide polls. Sometimes cops will go overboard and imo the "system" does a pretty good job at holding bad cops accountable. Some agencies do a piss poor job. Some do a great job.

There's no excuse for what this cop did and imo he deserves a suspension. Most agencies work under the concept of progressive discipline. If this type of thing happens again and again, it warrants dismissal, pursuant to due process of course

 

[BrianB]

Administratively a suspension is fine and dandy but criminally I think the cop should be charged with battery. If juries tend to be lenient on cops, fine, let them be, but let the cop hire a lawyer with his own money to defend the charge, roll the dice with a jury, and risk jail time just like I would if I did that. What's wrong with that plan?

 

[PALO]

Administratively a suspension is fine and dandy but criminally I think the cop should be charged with battery. If juries tend to be lenient on cops, fine, let them be, but let the cop hire a lawyer with his own money to defend the charge, roll the dice with a jury, and risk jail time just like I would if I did that. What's wrong with that plan?

I can respect that opinion, I just have a different one. And fwiw, most cops wouldn't pay for their own lawyer, their union would.

At least in my jurisdiction, the average penalty for an assault of this ilk (we aren't talking aggravated assault, broken bones,. etc.) is probation, and a fine. I can confirm that by searching DISCIS from my computer. That's simply reality - first offense (no priors), "minor assault", etc. won't get you jail time.

So, with that in mind, a weeks suspension, which at least where I work = about a $2000 fine, plus the ofc. being put on probation in his agency is a REASONABLE penalty. There are Assaults that rise to the level where they should be criminally charged, absolutely e.g. paul schene case (he got two hung juries).

cheers

 

[Citizen]

I can respect that opinion, I just have a different one. And fwiw, most cops wouldn't pay for their own lawyer, their union would.

At least in my jurisdiction, the average penalty for an assault of this ilk (we aren't talking aggravated assault, broken bones,. etc.) is probation, and a fine. I can confirm that by searching DISCIS from my computer. That's simply reality - first offense (no priors), "minor assault", etc. won't get you jail time.

So, with that in mind, a weeks suspension, which at least where I work = about a $2000 fine, plus the ofc. being put on probation in his agency is a REASONABLE penalty. There are Assaults that rise to the level where they should be criminally charged, absolutely e.g. paul schene case (he got two hung juries).

cheers

Wait a minute. Just a few posts up, PALO said the prosecutor(s) in his jurisdiction nolle prose'd assaults unless domestic violence. Now the story is that they get a fine and probation.

 

[PALO]

Wait a minute. Just a few posts up, PALO said the prosecutor(s) in his jurisdiction nolle prose'd assaults unless domestic violence. Now the story is that they get a fine and probation.

This is an example of your disingenuousness.

What I said is that when it comes to very minor "push'y shove'y" type assaults very frequently, when the person has no priors especially the pros will nolle pros them.

Minor assaults IN GENERAL that are prosecuted (assault IV) usually get a fine and probation.

Those aren't contradictory statements. Only in your quest to seek out stuff to quibble over, is it.

Some stuff is so de minimus it's not charged. I get this with neighbor disputes all the time. Prosecutor is not going to waste his time over a minor pushy' shovey offense. DV is a different animal because it's so politically charged.

I really am trying to avoid devolving to your level, but this is the kind of crap I expect from trolls.

Prosecutors where I work have a sick # of cases on their plate and limited funds. Heck, we have "expedited misdemeanors" where people arrested for felony drug crimes (e.g. possession of cocaine) are given a chance to plea to a misdemeanor AUTOMATICALLY if they have no priors.

Look it up. King County, WA.

 

[Citizen]

This is an example of your disingenuousness.

What I said is that when it comes to very minor "push'y shove'y" type assaults very frequently, when the person has no priors especially the pros will nolle pros them.

Bwahhahahahahahahaha!! No. That's not what you said. You didn't say pushy-shovey, nor very frequently, nor anything about priors. Here is what you said in post #102 just a little ways up the page:

And before the double standard brigade makes claims about how a "civilian" would have been prosecuted for a quick slap - outside of the world of DV I have never seen a prosecutor do anything but nolle pros such minor assaults IN MY JURISDICTION.

"I have never seen...do anything but nolle pros..."

And, that was for a slap. Not just a push or shove.

Ahahahahahahaaa!! Can't even keep up with your own stories!!


By the way, did you answer my questions about why you didn't protect your detainee from the assault? And, why you let it escalate to the point your back-up slapped a detainee?

 

[eye95]

The statements are not in conflict. One statement says that the charges are so minor as to typically not even be prosecuted. The other outlines the typical penalty were the charge to be brought and a conviction to result.

Two absolutely compatible statements.


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