Ask LEO a question

[Citizen]

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LEO 229 wrote:

MSC 45ACP wrote:

Is it me, or is 229 justaputz that just wanders from post to post causing trouble? I'm new here, so I don't know very many folks. Why does it seem he's always stirring up chit?

You are correct... I stir chit up.

I say the things other people are scared to say. I am not one to "go with the flow" and play it safe. I raise questions and provide alternate points of view.

So yes, in every thread.... I am going to piss someone off simply because they do not like what is being said. How dare I question something!!! This is due to their own ignorance, bias, or lack of understanding.

Please show me where I started trouble other than asking a question. :lol:

Don't take the bait, MSC 45ACP.

His comment, "Please show me where I started trouble other than asking a question" is, itself, starting trouble.

Obviously, any number of people can quote posts of his that "startedtrouble". But he will take whatever is quotedand start arguing with it endlessly, going into evasions, creating fog, etc.Meaning, more trouble.

There is even agood chance he will take this note to you from me as an opportunity to get trouble moving along.

 

[para_org]

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Our esteemed LEO 229 a "putz" ? .... How dare you guys say such a thing. He is the ONLY LEO here that speaks the honest to gosh truth.

Just ask him, and he will tell you so. Oh wait, he already has. Sorry, my bad.

 

[TexasNative]

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On the other hand, there are a goodly number of folks here who have a huge problem with cops in general, and there are others who have a problem specifically with LEO 229, and will lie about him, twist what he says, make stuff up, and otherwise behave with something less than the minimal level of integrity society expects of people.

In response, unfortunately, LEO 229 on more and more frequent occasions has started sinking to their level, and in the end, they all start talking (or shouting) past each other, and nothing much gets accomplished.

But whenever someone starts talking about how wonderful they are because LEO 229 is a (fill in the blank), that's your first clue that the ad hominem attacks are about to start and meaningful discussion of the topic at hand has effectively ended.

I for one miss the good old days when 229 would just give us the LE perspective on situations and questions, ignoring the cop- (and 229-)haters. These days it routinely turns into a tit-for-tat "you too!" argument.

~ Boyd

P.S. This is not to say that I think everyone who disagrees with 229 is a hater. Many counter his statements with effective statements and arguments of their own. The ones that start impugning his character, though, are contributing to the problem rather that contributing to the group.

 

[para_org]

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You seem to be missing the point. He needs no outside help here as he manages just fine "impugning his (own) character".

 

[TexasNative]

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Case in point.

 

[para_org]

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Not really, unless correcting you is "impugning" our esteemed LEO. As you know, that is a BIG stretch, worthy of the best of this thread's obfuscation.

You don't happen to be an alternate login of LEO229's ?

(On second thought, please do NOT bother answering. This discussion with you has become, like all such obfuscation, worthless.)

NEVER MIND.... MOVE ON, NOTHING TO SEE HERE........

 

[TexasNative]

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As usual, insulting people rather than stating facts and contributing to the conversation.

But true, there's definitely nothing more to see here.

~ Boyd

 

[para_org]

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Just like LEO 229, wants to go backwards and then obfuscate....

Citizen is right, people shouldn't take your bait LEO 229 er um, TexasNative.

MEA CULPA .

 

[LEO 229]

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Boyd... I am honored to have you be accused of being my double. :lol:

 

[LEO 229]

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TexasNative wrote:

As usual, insulting people rather than stating facts and contributing to the conversation.

But true, there's definitely nothing more to see here.

~ Boyd

Stop obfuscating!!!

This post is clearly:

• evasive
• unclear
• confusing

 

[MSC 45ACP]

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I have a great deal of respect for land-based LEO's (and my water-borne bretheren). You guys havea very dangerous job. I spent most of my 22 years in the Coast Guard doing LE. We NEVER operated alone. At a minumm, you had at least onepartner when doing a boarding. The bigger the boat (or ship), the bigger the boarding team. Land cops are almost always alone and backup is at least 5 minutes away, more often longer.

I learned a bit on the nautical side of LE. You meet a lot ofvery nicelaw-abiding people and a few that aren't interested in abiding by the law. Fortunately, the good far outnumbered the bad. Sadly, there are also a few bad apples within the ranks of LEO's. You run into "contrary" poeple wherever you go. Some folks are just permanently constipated... not much you can do about them, except ignore them if possible.

 

[Doug Huffman]

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DHS's armed thugs, beardless though they be, have made it much easier for me to give up my Beneteau than be subject to their intrusive petty-tyranny.

Read Atlas Shrugged.

 

[MSC 45ACP]

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I'm sorry to hear you've had some bad experiences with the CG. I retired not long after it became part of DHS. I do remember having to enforce some unpopular laws, notably the closed and restricted fishing areas in the North Atlantic Ocean. Did you encounter a rude boarding team or something worse?

 

[Sheriff]

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MSC 45ACP wrote:

Land cops are almost always alone and backup is at least 5 minutes away, more often longer.

The area in which I live..... they may be in one man cars, or alone as you call it, butwhen dispatched to a call, the first cop will "stage" a few blocks away and wait for their backup to catch up with them. It's called "officer safety". The citizens have to fend for themselves until the cops are together and ready to go in.

25 years ago, the first officer on the scene would charge in and take care of business until his backup got there. Nowadays it seems like a lone officer is just too scared to run in and take care of business. The little girl being raped down by the lake has to wait for the cops to congregate a few blocks away and come in together. A very sad state of affairs in my opinion.



EDIT FOR TYPO

 

[Thundar]

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Sheriff wrote:

The area in which I live..... they may be in one man cars, or alone as you call it, butwhen dispatched to a call, the first cop will "stage" a few blocks away and wait for their backup to catch up with them. It's called "officer safety". The citizens have to fend for themselves until the cops are together and ready to go in.

25 years ago, the first officer on the scene would charge in and take care of business until his backup got there. Nowadays it seems like a lone officer is just too scared to run in and take care of business. The little girl being raped down by the lake has to wait for the cops to congregate a few blocks away and come in together. A very sad state of affairs in my opinion.



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A compelling argument for the armed citizen. Take care of yourself. If you don't, youmay bedead by the time police arrive.

 

[LEO 229]

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Sheriff wrote:

MSC 45ACP wrote:

Land cops are almost always alone and backup is at least 5 minutes away, more often longer.

The area in which I live..... they may be in one man cars, or alone as you call it, butwhen dispatched to a call, the first cop will "stage" a few blocks away and wait for their backup to catch up with them. It's called "officer safety". The citizens have to fend for themselves until the cops are together and ready to go in.

25 years ago, the first officer on the scene would charge in and take care of business until his backup got there. Nowadays it seems like a lone officer is just too scared to run in and take care of business. The little girl being raped down by the lake has to wait for the cops to congregate a few blocks away and come in together. A very sad state of affairs in my opinion.


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25 years ago officer people were not so willing to attack and kill cops.

Departments have had to adapt to the changing times. Some calls are dangerous to go to alone. Not all of them.

Domestic Violence calls are top of the list.

Officers are not supposed to go in alone but many still do. They are supposed to wait for backup and approach together. You have to deal with the abuser and while arresting that person you have to deal with the spouse that does not want the bread winner to go to jail. You cannot do that alone having to arrest one and fight two.

In the case of a Sheriff's office... they have a very large area to cover. If can take 20-30 minutes for a backup officer to actually get to you. So the officer may wait a bit before going in. If attacked, he will not have to wait as long for someone to come to his rescue.

Please show me something where the police waited for backup while a child was being raped? Or was this just to get people enraged over police staging? That was a ridiculous example.

An officer is not scared to take care of business either. If that were the case, he would not show up at all. Responding to calls are a bit different than back in your day.

With better training, officers know what calls can have an increased danger and what to look out for. How many officers do you want to send in alone to be shot as they approach? A shooter can only engage one target at a time. Two officers increases the chances of spotting danger and ability to shoot back.

Face it... there are times when two officer are necessary to successfully accomplish the task.

Will you next rant about the fire department staging too? They do it all the time. They have 6-8 guys with axes and still wait for the single officer to walk up and knock on the door. :lol:

 

[Sheriff]

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LEO 229 wrote:

An officer is not scared to take care of business either. If that were the case, he would not show up at all. Responding to calls are a bit different than back in your day.

Very often I wish I didn't know what I am talking about.If you look on the internet, there dozens of cowardicelinks about cops hiding and running from calls. There was a big long discussion not long ago on officer.com , cops whining about their fellow workers running from and hiding from calls until the calls were "safe" to go into.

Here'sone link, cop too scared to act, even though his partner wanted to jump out and do the right thing.

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/03/thin_line_divides_honor_shame.html

And yes, we know you will find a way to defend the coward cop. Have fun. :lol:

 

[acrimsontide]

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I am usually very supportive of police as I feel they have a tough job. While I know that "staging" goes on, I am appalled that it does. An officer should know and accept the fact that his/her job is dangerous, but it is a job he/she chose to do. If police are called, they should respond and do that job, otherwise they should not have put on the uniform. When a citizen calls for assistance, they likely need it immediately, and should not have to wait until the responding officer feels the situation is safe for him/her to respond.

I too have read stories like the one linked in the post above and I have read stories where officers showed bravery and responded by themselves and did their jobs. And I have personally known one brave officer who responded alone and was killed in his efforts to do his job. I respect that officer's bravery. He likely saved several lives by engaging the guy who killed him. Had he "staged" until other officers arrived, he might still be alive but at the expense of the lives of several civilans.

If an officer is afraid of the risks of the job, then it's time for that officer to find another line of work. I know all officers want to go home at the end of their shifts but so do those serving in our military and a soldier who deliberately delays going forward and doing their job is labeled a coward and is usually dismissed from the military with less than an honorable discharge. When a soldier is ordered to go forward, it is not their option to decide to wait until it is safe. It should be the same for police officers.

 

[wylde007]

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Sheriff wrote:

Here'sone link, cop too scared to act, even though his partner wanted to jump out and do the right thing.

I wonder if that fear now is propagated by the knowledge that the perp may be far-better armed than they are?

That some of their less-than-honorable brethren have acted beyond, above or outside of the law and brought negative connotation to the office?

I personally could see where an officer might be afraid to go into a situation these days. Gone are the times when the quiet citizenry respected and admired "Officer Friendly" who would stop them on the sidewalk to say "Hello" or small-town talk to them.

Now they see story on top of story about officers abusing their authority, violently assaulting citizens who they decide are non-compliant. Officers reaching into private vehicles and taking personal effects without permission. Officers striking, tazering or shooting individuals either in custody or cooperating...

Then you have the cases where the officers go to the scene where three of their fellows have been gunned down by a notorious thug and the streets are lined with mongrel vermin shouting down the backup officers and threatening their lives and safety.

It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world...

 

[acrimsontide]

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wylde007 wrote:

Sheriff wrote:

Here'sone link, cop too scared to act, even though his partner wanted to jump out and do the right thing.

I wonder if that fear now is propagated by the knowledge that the perp may be far-better armed than they are?

That some of their less-than-honorable brethren have acted beyond, above or outside of the law and brought negative connotation to the office?

I personally could see where an officer might be afraid to go into a situation these days. Gone are the times when the quiet citizenry respected and admired "Officer Friendly" who would stop them on the sidewalk to say "Hello" or small-town talk to them.

Now they see story on top of story about officers abusing their authority, violently assaulting citizens who they decide are non-compliant. Officers reaching into private vehicles and taking personal effects without permission. Officers striking, tazering or shooting individuals either in custody or cooperating...

Then you have the cases where the officers go to the scene where three of their fellows have been gunned down by a notorious thug and the streets are lined with mongrel vermin shouting down the backup officers and threatening their lives and safety.

It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world...

I agree that it's not the best of times for LEOs as there are a lot of crazies out there. However, as I said earlier:
If an officer is afraid of the risks of the job, then it's time for that officer to find another line of work.