Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
It's supposed to be Federal...State...People. The Government is operating along the intended course. Is it operating properly...I would say no.
Wyoming's move is just another example of how inefficient the States run.
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Wyoming lawmakers propose bill to nullify new federal gun laws
- Thread starter zack991
- Start date
It's supposed to be Federal...State...People. The Government is operating along the intended course. Is it operating properly...I would say no.
Wyoming's move is just another example of how inefficient the States run.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
The people always come before any bureaucracy, unless you live in China? You do know that boats for there leave every day?
Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
No thanks...I'm not down with Communism. Imperialism isn't much better, though.
Bone: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Tenth Amendment--to our Constitution.
Let me see here, so, "...powers not delegated to the [Federal Government] by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are [still] reserved to the States"?
Basically, Power passes along the line of succession: Federal Government, and if not prohibited by the Constitution to the States are reserved to the States--meaning: The States have certain Powers, and there are other Powers the States can have, if the Federal Government doesn't want them--then the People are left with the scraps...if there is anything left; there isn't. Wait, there is the Power to vote.
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LkWd_Don
Regular Member
How about providing credible source material proving your position.
The Preamble of our Constitution does not Start with This your Federal Government, It begins with WE THE PEOPLE, and it is not securing the blessings of Liberty for our Federal and State Governments, but to Ourselves and Our Posterity.
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_preamble.html
Again, if you can not speak the truth, you really should learn not to speak at all.
eye95
Well-known member
She speaks of the way she wants it to be, not of the way the Framers intended.
She likes a hierarchical model. There are plenty of countries set up according to that model. France comes to mind. Maybe she'd be happier living there?
She likes a hierarchical model. There are plenty of countries set up according to that model. France comes to mind. Maybe she'd be happier living there?
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Yes and why we are not supposed to be Imperialistic, although our country has took on that.
But also communism and socialism was used together until the Bolshevik revolution, there really are no differences between them except for the way they are implemented this is also true for fascism.
Your only cite is an attempt at distorting the constitution.....? Again I'll provide you that this is not what was understood by the states or the Feds at one time.....Our state constitution says.....
SECTION 1 POLITICAL POWER. All political power is inherent in the people, and governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, and are established to protect and maintain individual rights.
OC for ME
Regular Member
What it should state. Remember, not all citizen consent to be governed. In fact they only consent to follow the laws with a desire to be unmolested by the state.
Our US Constitution and thus state constitutions were written by politicians and not the people. All the people get to do is vote yea or nay. The process to recommend changes to proposed laws and thus constitutions is intentionally made difficult for the people by politicians.
Liberals desire tyranny for others and not themselves. This is why liberals speak of their desires as if their desire are fact. B92FSL speaks to reality, most of the time, and we should take heed of her words, for we read the words of a liberal who is the rare exception to the rule.
davidmcbeth
Banned
+1 ... supremacy of fed law over state ... of course such a law may offer immunity to state officials, MAY.
Otherwise its just a show. No sheriff, state cop, local cop is going to impede a federal agent. In fact, they would all likely join them if asked by the feds.
The only people going to protect people from unconstitutional laws and gun grabs are other people, not anyone from the government.
Oh, the feds are at my door ... I'll dial 911 ...
911: 911..whats your emergency?
you: I have federal agents at my door to steal from me
911: and?
you: are you not going to send help to get these federal agents off my land
911: honey, you have been reading pro-gun forums too long
you: what?
911: call me back when they are shooting your dog(s) .. I like to listen .. stay safe, bye-bye
eye95
Well-known member
You are finally showing your true colors. Federal trumps State (not triumphs) ONLY in those areas in which the federal government has been given specific authority. In ALL other matters, the 9A and 10A (in addition to the structure and the genesis of the Constitution) mean that all other rights, powers, authorities, and privileges are retained by the People and the States.
If you don't get that fundamental concept, you don't get the Constitution.
+1ing an ignorant post just +1s your own ignorance.
LkWd_Don
Regular Member
As the Article 1 Section 1 that SVG was quoting is from the Washington State Constitution, I feel that if the People you are claiming do not wish to ruled under that Constitution, have the right to remove themselves from this state without actually leaving our Untied States.
It really would be beneficial for many Washington State Residents to read our State Constitution.
http://www.leg.wa.gov/LawsAndAgencyRules/Pages/constitution.aspx
Speaking to your reference to The People not having a means to recommend changes to our Laws and or Constitution, shows me at least that you are not familiar with the People of Washington State having a right to Petition for change and of Referendum.
Here is Section 4 of "Article 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS" of the WA State Constitution
Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
I'm not sure what is, and is not a Credible Source.
"We the People" speaks nothing to the structure of the System that exists. Anyhoo, "We the People" bestowed that Power--think about it: "We the People" is a collective declaration.--not too Libertarian, is it?
There is no Truth; don't fault me for your shortcomings.
Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
Why move to France, when we have that model here! What the framers intended, is noted. If you are fine with a group of men, two hundred years past, telling you what form of Government you can and cannot live under, go for it; stand your post.
Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
We are moving to a Socialist State; make no mistake, we are moving there. Socialism does not equal Fascism; Socialism does not equal firearm bans.
It's not a distortion, it's an interpretation...big difference. It's hard to distort something that isn't too specific; and doesn't serve a sufficient utility.
Federal trumps State, period. Washington's constitution is just about irrelevant.
I agree, though, the Government, and governments, derive their Powers from the consent of the People. Individual Rights are a matter of degrees; as is Liberty.
We-the-People
Regular Member
Government derives its power from the governed and has only that power delegated to it by the governed. As such, the federal government has ONLY those powers specifically delegated to it within the Constitution.
Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution grants the following powers to the federal government:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
The "commerce clause" and the last one are where we have problems. Starting with Alexander Hamilton's treatise in support of the (unconstitutional) First Bank of the United States, those who want to expand the federal powers have created the "implied powers doctrine". Yet the Bill of Rights, specifically amendments 9 and 10 which read:
Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Quite obviously DENY the federal government any powers that are not delegated to it by the Constitution and retain those powers for the PEOPLE and the states.
But then, reading the Constitution never did get in the way of a good socialist or communists argument that the government can do whatever it wants. They simply don't care and preach their drivel until they get enough ignorant people to buy into the concept of the government providing everything they need in some sort of "grass is greener" utopia which cannot be sustained but once emplaced requires violent revolution to remove.
Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution grants the following powers to the federal government:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
The "commerce clause" and the last one are where we have problems. Starting with Alexander Hamilton's treatise in support of the (unconstitutional) First Bank of the United States, those who want to expand the federal powers have created the "implied powers doctrine". Yet the Bill of Rights, specifically amendments 9 and 10 which read:
Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Quite obviously DENY the federal government any powers that are not delegated to it by the Constitution and retain those powers for the PEOPLE and the states.
But then, reading the Constitution never did get in the way of a good socialist or communists argument that the government can do whatever it wants. They simply don't care and preach their drivel until they get enough ignorant people to buy into the concept of the government providing everything they need in some sort of "grass is greener" utopia which cannot be sustained but once emplaced requires violent revolution to remove.
LkWd_Don
Regular Member
If you can not differentiate between what is true and what is false, that is not my shortcoming!
And who cares about any of the evil political parties, be they Libertarian, Republican, Democrat, or other? Not I!
Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
The rambling you read from so-called 'tea party' types, harkens back over two hundred years. Some individuals just can't get over the fact that they lost the war, slavery was going to end, women were going to have the Right to vote extended to them, etc.
Just like every other social battle waged from the Conservative side, to stop, impede the movement towards a more equitable, and civilized society, they will lose, period. The Alex Jones types of America are paranoid, armed, and nostalgic; a recipe for violence, and social upheaval.--but they will still lose the war.
LkWd_Don
Regular Member
Re-emphasised and snipped for brevity and for my purposes.
The Congressional Powers that I snipped out do not deal with creation of Laws, so I do not wish to discuss them at this time.
Please note that in the first ability for Congress to establish a Law.. it is for very Specific Purposes.. Immigration and Bankruptcies..
Our Constitution does allow our Congress to provide for the Punishment of Counterfeiting.. as it is stated that only our Congress and not our States has the authority to coin money for the United States..
Next, please note the only place's that Congress has the authority to define and punish Felonies.. "committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations"..
If Congress is saying that an act that is committed on Land is a Felony, then it must have been defined as such by a State as Congress was given no such authority!
Where or what is Congress to make rules for??? "the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces" no other Rule or Law making is within their granted authority! With the exception of our National Seat of Government, which they are given exclusive authority over.
The catch-all that Congress has used to BS everyone into believing that they have authority that they do not is the Clause that I refer to as the Necessary & Proper Clause.
Please understand that first things first.. not everything that is necessary is proper and not everything that is proper is necessary! In this, what they do, must be both Necessary And Proper! And then it only applies to the what? The Foregoing Powers or to Powers Granted elsewhere in the Constitution.
Someone please show me where if our Congress is not permitted to define Felonies committed on land within the United States, then what gave them the authority to create a US Marshals Service, Department of Justice, FBI, BATFE, Department of Homeland Security, and possibly many more agencies?
As I first discussed, they have the Authority to establish laws for Immigration, so for them to create the ICE is within their granted powers.
To argue that Our Government Trumps all that States may do is not simply untrue, but to believe it is actually the case is nothing less than lunacy!
Too many sheeple exist within our Society that are allowing the Federal Government (Congress and President) to dictate what will and will not be!
That is not Freedom! That is not Liberty!
In order for the sheeple to regain their freedom and liberty, then need to read, need to learn, and then need to speak out against the transgressions and tyranny of those who wish to usurp power not rightfully their's, and dictate to those who are not subordinate or subservient to them, but are actually their Superiors!
We the Legal Citizens of the United States are The People who are the foundation of our Governments Authority! Without us and our permission, Our Government is really nothing! We simply need to remind them who is in charge!
Beretta92FSLady
Regular Member
Agreed. We reminded Government who's in charge, just three months past, in November.
The People have only the Power to bestow Power, not to exercise the Power bestowed; so-called Freedom and Liberty do not extend beyond that Power to bestow.
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