Vegas StrEATS Festival

[DooFster]

http://library.municode.com/HTML/14787/level2/TIT12MIRE_CH12.02SPEV.html



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Section F there doesn't seem to be terribly useful, but there is no implication of the public street becoming "not public".

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No mention of the use being granted exclusively.

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So they failed miserably at this. Now I know for next time. If they can't produce a permit, then don't let them off the hook.

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So this is interesting. Preemption would apply here, methinks.

In any case, in the whole section of the municipal code, I could not find anything that make the public street private. I could not find anything that states that they are permitted to demand bag searches. I DID see a section that mentions that they can, as part of their permit, charge a fee. So I am not sure how that works, when the event is held on public property.

The way I am interpreting this, the permit allows them to use the public space for their event. I see nothing in the Munipal Code that says anything about that space being privately held during the validity period of their permit. It is permitting them to have their event, not granting them exclusivity. Yeah, that's the word I was looking for.

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So a quick search of "Vegas Streats" on the CLV website Business License page returns what appear to be very short business licenses, all showing an "Out of Business" status. The operator is probably doing a 1 day business license or something, 'cause there seems to be a unique entry for each month. The name Ricardo Guerrero is listed in several places, along with Slidin Thru LLC. He is listed as the Managing Member of the LLC.

http://www.lvrj.com/business/slidin-thru-ready-to-expand-from-truck-to-restaurants-135308448.html

So the permittee is Slidin Thru LLC, with his name attached. Next time around, they need to be able to produce an event permit on the spot.

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I noticed while we were there that there are two distinct areas of the event, the part that is out on 6th st, which is clearly public property, and a part that runs through what amounts to a sidewalk and parking lot strip that runs between LV Blvd and 6th. That strip of property is owned by Exber, Inc, which is the parent company of the El Cortez. So, for the moment, that section can be reasonably called private property. There might be an argument later that they have conceded their private property rights by allowing it to be a public footpath and parking area (an argument the smut-peddlers have used, successfully), but for now, I'm just going to concern myself with the 6th st part.

So, the fencing was set up such that you had to go through a search to get into the event area, but it routed you directly into the Private Property (Exber) part. You can't access the 6th St part without going through the private property area, which I think could probably be remedied.

So, I think the bottom line here is whether the event permit grants them exclusive right to control access to what would normally be public property. If it does, then this is not an OC issue, it's a "And just who the hell thought THAT would be okay" kind of problem. I'm gonna email the Permit office and ask them about the exclusivity part, and see what they say. We'll go from there.

So here's my question: were we right in what we were doing, and should they have kicked us out in the manner that they did, minus the LVMPD Sergeant??

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[Nevada carrier]

For the portion of the even held on public property, you were right. Public property is still public and access cannot be restricted. The county ordinance that bars weapons can do so for weapons not including firearms; those are preempted by state law.

 

[Merlin]

For the portion of the even held on public property, you were right. Public property is still public and access cannot be restricted. The county ordinance that bars weapons can do so for weapons not including firearms; those are preempted by state law.

I was willing to back off of that (this time) because I wasn't certain if there was any ordinance that was relevant. It is plausible to me that if a permit is granted for filming (like a movie, or CSI episode) that they might be granted temporary private property so as to control their filming environment. Of course, there are arguments, both pro and con on that one, but that is a separate discussion.

Pro: For the filming example, I understand the need to control the environment for filming. As a taxpayer, allowing them to use that space for a limited, temporary use is a boon to the taxpayers in that it helps fund the public works that maintain that public space through fees and such. It can also be a benefit to tourism, etc, etc. I personally would be ok with this specific use, but only because 'private property' type control of the space would/may be necessary for successful filming. And I like CSI. Also, things like races, that require blocking the streets for safety reasons, I can understand. Again, there is a benefit to the taxpayers by putting on events like that, and in that example, it is a safety thing.

Con: It's still my dirt, and I should not be blocked from accessing it. With the exception of the examples above, I see no benefit to the public by blocking public access to public dirt. This example, the Vegas Streats thing, I see no justification for denying me access, or my rights.

 

[Merlin]

I sent an email to the SpecialEvents department at CLV. Here's what I sent.

Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 3:56 AM
To: Film-Special Events
Subject: Event Permit Details?

Greetings!

I have a few questions about the Special Events permit process. I am hoping you can help me, if not, please direct me to the right person.

1. How do I go about getting a copy of a past Special Event Permit? In this case, I would like to get a copy of the Permit and corresponding application for the Vegas Streats event, most recently held on Saturday, Jul 14th, 2012. If there is an online method of accessing this information, please direct me to it. I expected to have such a mechanism on the CLV website, but could not find any such thing.
2. I would also like to obtain a copy of the Permit and corresponding application for the next time this event happens, which I believe is 8/11/12. If the permit hasn’t been issued yet, that’s fine, just please advise me on how much notice I would need to give your office to be able to obtain a copy BEFORE the event.
3. A. Can you please clarify the status of Public Property during such an event? In other words, when an Event such as this one happens on what would normally be Public Property (6th St), does that Public Property become Private Property during the validity period of the Permit? If so, please direct me to the Code/Statute that authorizes that.
B. Is the Permittee granted EXCLUSIVE DOMAIN over the space? Are they allowed, as part of their Permit, the right to deny access to the normally Public Property under any circumstances? If so, please direct me to the Code/Statute that authorizes that.
C. I understand that the Permittee is required to provide, as a condition of their application, information regarding placement of barricades, fencing, etc. I understand that those items are for the purpose of public safety, but if I understand correctly, they are NOT intended to be used as devices to limit Public pedestrian access to the event area. Am I correct on that? In other words, they can (and should) have appropriate barriers in place to block vehicular traffic as needed to ensure the safety of pedestrians, but those barriers should not be used to obstruct access to public property by the pedestrian public, correct? If I am wrong, please direct me to the Code/Statute that would cover this.

I would prefer to receive the documents requested in #1 and #2 above by email if possible. I suspect that you have them stored in PDF (or something similar). This would be my ideal method of receiving these documents. If that is not an option, then snail mail would be acceptable as well. My address is below. If neither of those is an option, and it is necessary for me to come to an office somewhere to get copies of these
records, then please direct me to the appropriate office.

(My Address)

This is a request for public records under the Nevada Open Records Act (NORA). If you require something more formal, please advise me of your requirements, and I will comply as needed.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter!

And, lo' an' behold, I actually had a reply today:

Hello Mr. Merlin,
Received your records request and I'll be processing your request tomorrow. There is a form that needs to be filled out but I can send it to you via email.
Talk to you soon,
Thanks,
Erin Hernandez
Custodian of Records
CLV Public Works
Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:
Date: July 15, 2012 2:05:32
Erin: Please handle as a records request. We’ll put the information together

So, good stuff. Progress being made.

Once the private property part gets sorted, then we can deal with 12.02.230(d) (no weapons). If I need to go before the city council to get that corrected, I am not afraid to do so.

 

[MAC702]

That was a clear, respectful letter. Very well done, and I'm excited to see their further reply.

 

[DooFster]

Agreed!!

 

[DooFstersGirl]

Awesome!

 

[The Big Guy]

Good job. I'm curious to see the answers to your questions.

TBG

 

[OC-moto450r]

2A

 

[DooFstersGirl]

It was great to have Merlin there! He's very knowledgeable and knew exactly what to say. I learned a lot just from listening to him interacting with the El Cortez security people, the event staff and Metro.

 

[vegaspassat]

I wish I could have made it. Damn weekend duty :/

 

[DooFstersGirl]

There's always next time!

 

[DooFster]

Do we dare to try again next month?

 

[Merlin]

Do we dare to try again next month?

I fully intend to. I expect to have this sorted by then. That's why I asked for a copy of next months permit, so when THEY don't have a copy of it, I can bust it out.

I am also considering getting in touch with the head of the whole thing, Ricardo whatshisname. He is late twenties, and by all appearances, is just a regular dude. I think once we nail down that it is completely legal, and he doesn't have to worry about getting in trouble, he may be able to be swayed to open the private property side of it to us. Hell, I might consider running off some pro-gun t-shirts, and get a vendor booth there. How's that for turning the whole thing on its ear? I'm sure the security folks would just LOVE that. You know, its entirely possible some of them would in fact love that.

I don't just want to be right and win, I want to bring over the enemy to my side. Clearly they aren't afraid to stand their ground. Let's get them doing it for the right reason.


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[DooFster]

You know, I had something telling me we were completely in the right to do it...

 

[MAC702]

...I am also considering getting in touch with the head of the whole thing, Ricardo whatshisname. He is late twenties, and by all appearances, is just a regular dude...

Regular dudes are our best demographic! He probably has no idea the legality of it, nor the experience with firearms to appreciate it. We should offer to take him shooting for a morning, and let him know that he, too, could be open carrying.

 

[OC-moto450r]

2A

 

[Merlin]

I'm curious how someone knows what another persons beliefs are just by looking at them?

I'm just bust'n your nuggets...

Yeah, yeah, I know. I guess I could have elaborated and said that his back story is one of being down and out just a few years ago. I guess that probably contributed to my hypothesis that he might be normal people, and not some elitist hippie liberal. Yeah, hopeful I know, but hey, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

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[vegaspassat]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I guess I could have elaborated and said that his back story is one of being down and out just a few years ago. I guess that probably contributed to my hypothesis that he might be normal people, and not some elitist hippie liberal. Yeah, hopeful I know, but hey, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

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you have a PM sir

 

[DooFster]

Do we dare try again this Saturday or are we going to get the same reaction?