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The Open Carry and Strict Scrutiny bill has been filed

Raventai

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Oct 10, 2015
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Dixie county, florida
After all those changes what's the point of the bill? In other words the bill has already been defeated and we're just waiting for the coroner to pronounce it officially dead.

This has not happened yet, it's what some law makers think may happen, and possibly something we need to work against to keep what we want in the bill.

Our maybe we take pain Jane open carry bill now and work for more later if we have to?
 

77zach

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Marion County, FL
After all those changes what's the point of the bill? In other words the bill has already been defeated and we're just waiting for the coroner to pronounce it officially dead.

Correct, but this will have to come up many times before it passes, just like with concealed carry.
 
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ixtow

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Suwannee County, FL
I've never bought salad dressing in my entire life.

As much as I disagree with so many things, I do hope I'll need to buy some for that word salad I promised to eat if Floriduh turned Yellow. I did amend that dictum to include Green, even though that's not good enough.

I may be a harsh (and possibly senile) critic, but I'm not the enemy.
 
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77zach

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I've never bought salad dressing in my entire life.

As much as I disagree with so many things, I do hope I'll need to buy some for that word salad I promised to eat if Floriduh turned Yellow. I did amend that dictum to include Green, even though that's not good enough.

I may be a harsh (and possibly senile) critic, but I'm not the enemy.
I think you'll be safe, but you may want to research organic paper or ink. Just to be safe; I didn't think as fascist a state as Texas would get OC either.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

Grapeshot

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Valhalla
So it has to pass through on the 20th then we wont have any updates until March?
I believe that means the bill would have to approved before the end of the session in March to become law this time around.

Meanwhile, updates should be posted whenever there is progress or setbacks to report.
 

Raventai

Regular Member
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Messages
25
Location
Dixie county, florida
the house bill has to make it through the Justice Appropriations Subcommittee and the Judiciary Committee in the house, before it can get to the floor of the house. http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=55017

in the Florida senate it has to go through Criminal Justice, Judiciary, than the senate vote.
Rules https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2016/0300


so five sub committees & two chamber votes, Governor Rick Scott has stated that if it passes the legislature then he will sign it.
 

hammer6

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Oct 11, 2008
Messages
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Location
Florida
I just received a phone call from the Miami Herald / Politifact.com who are verifying the comments concerning crime rates between open carry and non open carry states made by FL state Rep. Matt Gaetz.

I helped them to understand what open carry is, what the current status is, and to verify the math.

It will be interesting to see how they handle the data.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/s...-gaetz/violent-crime-lower-states-open-carry/


they said "half true" bro

"Gaetz then compared the total number of violent crimes (defined by federal officials as murder, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault) with the total population in the eight states without open carry in 2012. We checked his math and found the same result: Those states had a combined violent crime rate of about 434 per 100,000 people. The remaining 42 states had a violent crime rate of about 352 per 100,000. That means states with open carry laws did have a 23 percent lower violent crime rate that year."


after after reading through their research, i've found some flaws in it as well. they say that in pennsylvania, you can't openly carry in densely places. well, that's half true. you can only open carry in pittsburgh and philadephia if you possess a carry license.
 
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defcon4

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Location
Alabama
http://www.politifact.com/florida/s...-gaetz/violent-crime-lower-states-open-carry/


they said "half true" bro

"Gaetz then compared the total number of violent crimes (defined by federal officials as murder, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault) with the total population in the eight states without open carry in 2012. We checked his math and found the same result: Those states had a combined violent crime rate of about 434 per 100,000 people. The remaining 42 states had a violent crime rate of about 352 per 100,000. That means states with open carry laws did have a 23 percent lower violent crime rate that year."


after after reading through their research, i've found some flaws in it as well. they say that in pennsylvania, you can't openly carry in densely places. well, that's half true. you can only open carry in pittsburgh and philadephia if you possess a carry license.




Not quite true either. See Bolded above. In Pennsylvania Philadelphia is the only city that can legally require a LTCF to openly carry a firearm. :)
 

77zach

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Marion County, FL
The media will always get it wrong or lie. Even the official staff analysis on the bill contains errors. Which wouldn't be a big deal, but they undercounted the states that allow unlicensed open carry.

How amazing is it that most of the country lets any adult open carry without any documentation or permission slips or licenses, yet we have to have a knock down drag out over LICENSED open carry, licensees who are more law abiding than the police, statistically. Mind blown.
 
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randian

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Mar 10, 2011
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380
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Phoenix, AZ
Looks to me like the opposing parties want to gut "signs have no force of law" (liberals don't suddenly have respect for private property out of the goodness of their hearts) and make getting permits much more of an expense/hassle to sign on to open carry. I hope our side doesn't take that deal.
 

77zach

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Marion County, FL
Looks to me like the opposing parties want to gut "signs have no force of law" (liberals don't suddenly have respect for private property out of the goodness of their hearts) and make getting permits much more of an expense/hassle to sign on to open carry. I hope our side doesn't take that deal.

Doubt it. It's a non issue now with concealed carry and if open carry was legal, businesses would retain the right to ban it, just like "no shirt, no service".
 

randian

Regular Member
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Mar 10, 2011
Messages
380
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Doubt it. It's a non issue now with concealed carry and if open carry was legal, businesses would retain the right to ban it, just like "no shirt, no service".
Unless the OC bill specifically changes the law a no-gun sign at the door doesn't stop you from open-carrying anywhere. "No force of law" means they would have to ask you to leave after the fact, just like if they discover you are carrying concealed.

Also, why are anti-gun politicians bleating about "private property rights" in the context of OC if a business can just ask you to leave? It's pointless to talk about a private property right you already have unless the real goal is something else, like gutting "no force of law".
 

hammer6

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Location
Florida
[/B]


Not quite true either. See Bolded above. In Pennsylvania Philadelphia is the only city that can legally require a LTCF to openly carry a firearm. :)

my bad- i thought pittsburgh was a city of the first class. thanks for the correction
 

77zach

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Marion County, FL
Unless the OC bill specifically changes the law a no-gun sign at the door doesn't stop you from open-carrying anywhere. "No force of law" means they would have to ask you to leave after the fact, just like if they discover you are carrying concealed.

Also, why are anti-gun politicians bleating about "private property rights" in the context of OC if a business can just ask you to leave? It's pointless to talk about a private property right you already have unless the real goal is something else, like gutting "no force of law".

I hope we're all surprised by the intelligence and level headedness from Republicans and maybe even a few Democrats. They can find out that open carry isn't a big deal in other states, even in Oklahoma and Minnesota and Utah, etc, where it has been legalized in the modern era. My experience OCing in other states is that people don't seem to notice (incredibly, possibly due to cell phone holsters everywhere?), think you're a police officer, don't care, or celebrate it. The fact that the media will be all over this (until they completely forget about it a month later) will educate many people and would make it even more of a nonevent. Also, the current form of the bill makes explicit what the fourth amendment and case law already dictate to police: if an uninformed citizen from New York calls to report " a man with a gun" they can ask the caller if the man is threatening anyone with it or if he is going about his business. If the latter, they can educate the caller that it is perfectly legal and hang up. Or, if they're bored, they can follow the OCer around until there is real police work to be done.
 
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ADulay

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Oct 5, 2008
Messages
512
Location
Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
I hope we're all surprised by the intelligence and level headedness from Republicans and maybe even a few Democrats. They can find out that open carry isn't a big deal in other states, even in Oklahoma and Minnesota and Utah, etc, where it has been legalized in the modern era. My experience OCing in other states is that people don't seem to notice (incredibly, possibly due to cell phone holsters everywhere?), think you're a police officer, don't care, or celebrate it. The fact that the media will be all over this (until they completely forget about it a month later) will educate many people and would make it even more of a nonevent. Also, the current form of the bill makes explicit what the fourth amendment and case law already dictate to police: if an uninformed citizen from New York calls to report " a man with a gun" they can ask the caller if the man is threatening anyone with it or if he is going about his business. If the latter, they can educate the caller that it is perfectly legal and hang up. Or, if they're bored, they can follow the OCer around until there is real police work to be done.

EXACTLY!

This has been my experience around the country also. It is a NON EVENT for 99% of the time. The other 1% is an out of place New Yorker who can't figure out what's happening around them.

AD
 

ixtow

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Bogdanoff went Full Retard and was the only thing that stopped OC from happening last time around. She then got tarred and feathered for it and replaced by an actual Democrat. The only time I've witnessed a more one-sided election, is when it's uncontested.

I don't know of any of the previous RINOs being replaced by anything more favorable.

But, if just one Democrat goes in for it, then the RINOs can't hide anymore. If a DEMOCRAT is OK with it, how can a Republican not? With Sheriff's already speaking in favor, the FSA has to look like a house divided in order to oppose it... Arranging to put that foot forward at the outset is the best move Florida Carry has made to date. Well played.

maybe even a few Democrats.

That would be the tipping point; a democrat smoking out the RINOs. Not in the drug-using sense, but since a democrat was mentioned I figured it needed clarification... You know what I mean.

Democrats around the nation have spent over a decade relying on the Blues behind the Red lines. the RINOs mean that the democrats hold a majority even when it looks like they don't. RINOs still get paid and still get the same benefits, so they play ball to keep their cushy jobs. They lose intentionally and get rewarded for it. Essentially, democrats learned how to extend Welfare to their pretend opponents in the political arena, and RINOs love receiving it.

The "property rights" criers will be allowed to bleat a while, then soundly smacked by simply saying "Property rights have never been an issue in this, nothing on this bill detracts from property rights and anyone who says otherwise is a damn liar." Give them rope, let them out themselves, then pull the lever...

The House is unlikely to be the problem, as last time...

The only property rights issue I see is the desire to create a signage statute that grants power to property owners, and legalizes their desire to persecute a certain class of people that they deem unworthy or less than human. It's no different from making a statute that grants LEOs the power to legitimize color-of-law persecution. It's not property rights, it's about over-enhancing property rights to the point that they can be used as a weapon against gun owners.

It's one thing to have the right to prohibit anyone you want from entering upon your property, upon which this law has no impact. Quite another to grant them an extension of State Power to attack someone who simply didn't notice the tiny, poorly-written, obscured sign... Gun owners generally have no interest in giving their money to businesses who hate them. But, there are plenty of anti-gun zealots looking for any excuse to attack and persecute those with whom they disagree, and that's exactly what signage laws are. I completely agree with a property owner's right to prohibit whatever and whoever they feel like. I don't know any gun owner who disagrees with that, because most of them are also property owners themselves. We have no desire to rob anyone of their property rights. But, to inappropriately enhance those rights to the point of converting the right into a license to persecute and criminalize people that they label a "the enemy," is going too damn far.

It's about converting property rights into the right to persecute with weight of law. Something democrats always, always, always push for in everything they do. It isn't new. Democrats look for a way to persecute everyone they disagree with every single chance they get. They're hiding this particular attempt behind a fraudulent "property rights" argument.

Property owners already have the right to ask people to leave for any reason or no reason. This bill does not change that.

If, once asked to leave, a person does not do so, that's trespassing. This law already exists and this bill does not change it. If a person is armed and refuses to leave, that's armed trespass. A Felony! The law for this already exists and this bill does not change it.

The more you mess with settled law, the more it has to be re-visited and re-settled... Just leave it alone. Property rights are already enshrined and protected. This bill has zero impact on them, and appropriately so.

There is no problem here except for the usual democrat agenda of trying to get a persecution clause added to any and every law they think they can get it to stick to... I ended that sentence with a preposition, among other grammatical offenses throughout.
 
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Grapeshot

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--snipped--
But, if just one Democrat goes in for it, then the RINOs can't hide anymore. If a DEMOCRAT is OK with it, how can a Republican not? With Sheriff's already speaking in favor, the FSA has to look like a house divided in order to oppose it... Arranging to put that foot forward at the outset is the best move Florida Carry has made to date. Well played.


There is no problem here except for the usual democrat agenda of trying to get a persecution clause added to any and every law they think they can get it to stick to... I ended that sentence with a preposition, among other grammatical offenses throughout.
So you used a preposition to end a sentence with. That doesn't change the tone of the bell's ring.

Keep shining your bright light. We enjoy what it reveals.
 
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