The Interplay Between Concealed and Open Carry

[Unreconstructed Confederate Polymath]

wont work

gfsz 1995 ii) if the individual possessing the
firearm is licensed to do so by the state
in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the state and the
law of the state or political subdivision
requires that before an individual obtains
such a license the law enforcement
authorities of the state or political subdivision
verify that the individual is qualified under law
to receive the license

see the wikipedia discussion

gfsz 1995 prohibits reciprocity in school zones

 

[Crassus]

wont work

gfsz 1995 ii) if the individual possessing the
firearm is licensed to do so by the state
in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the state and the
law of the state or political subdivision
requires that before an individual obtains
such a license the law enforcement
authorities of the state or political subdivision
verify that the individual is qualified under law
to receive the license

see the wikipedia discussion

gfsz 1995 prohibits reciprocity in school zones

Wow! good find.

 

[Brass Magnet]

wont work

gfsz 1995 ii) if the individual possessing the
firearm is licensed to do so by the state
in which the school zone is located or a
political subdivision of the state and the
law of the state or political subdivision
requires that before an individual obtains
such a license the law enforcement
authorities of the state or political subdivision
verify that the individual is qualified under law
to receive the license

see the wikipedia discussion

gfsz 1995 prohibits reciprocity in school zones

Unless you can find a cite to a case that has been brought to court on your assertion I don't think it has been tested.

Although I agree that it could be found the way you suggest, if the state says that everyone who may legally posess firearms is licensed I would argue that they have de facto verified that they are qualified under law as those who are not legally allowed to posess firearms are specifically not exempt.

This does bring up another idea. Now that we have "conservatives" in both houses and the governers house, a "firearms freedom act" should also be passed. This may help along the court challenges of other states and help reduce the feds usurped commerce clause power which would affect the GFSZA.


ETA: I looked more into the WIKI article and have read the BATF letter. Does the BATF's regulative authority allow it to interpret legislative intent? I don't believe so but am unsure.

In any case I'm still reading and looking for a case that has been brought to court of a permit holder that was otherwise legally carrying a firearm and arguing under the exception.

 

[apjonas]

Ok, as far as it goes but

GFSZ - in the courts.
NICS - who cares? I'll wait 2 days for a background check.
reciprocity - get the appropriate permit for the state I want to carry in.

(GFSZ) who knows if it will ever make to SCOTUS, how long it will take or what the outcome will be.
(NICS) not a big issue. I think the background check is still instantaneous, the 48 hours is for you to "cool off" - I guess if you were in the sauna.
(NR vs RECIP) - still paying $ for government permission (and doesn't help in CO, MI and SC). If a WI permits existed, how many recognitions/reciprocities would be likely? If structured properly close to 40. Forget about HI, OR, MD, MA, RI, NJ, NY, DE in any case. How much could you save by not needing FL, PA, UT, VA, etc.?

If you really don't want/need the "benefits" of a WI permit, of course there is no requirement to obtain one. The questions are (1) What advantages to OC derive from the lack of a CC permit system? (2) What are the fears that a CC permit system conjures up for those who would only OC anyway?

In sum, if you already purchase permits from other states, a good WI permit would provide certain advantages and save you $. If you don't like permits then you probably don't have one and will never change your mind.

 

[protias]

Your advocating permitted OC?
I do not agree with that at all. I think we should be able to carry any way we wish non permitted. They need to change the GFSZ law to say no guns on school in a school building. I do not think we need anything more than that because quite frankly, criminals won't abide by those laws either.

There should be no restrictions on where, when, or how people carry.

(GFSZ) who knows if it will ever make to SCOTUS, how long it will take or what the outcome will be.
(NICS) not a big issue. I think the background check is still instantaneous, the 48 hours is for you to "cool off" - I guess if you were in the sauna.
(NR vs RECIP) - still paying $ for government permission (and doesn't help in CO, MI and SC). If a WI permits existed, how many recognitions/reciprocities would be likely? If structured properly close to 40. Forget about HI, OR, MD, MA, RI, NJ, NY, DE in any case. How much could you save by not needing FL, PA, UT, VA, etc.?

If you really don't want/need the "benefits" of a WI permit, of course there is no requirement to obtain one. The questions are (1) What advantages to OC derive from the lack of a CC permit system? (2) What are the fears that a CC permit system conjures up for those who would only OC anyway?

In sum, if you already purchase permits from other states, a good WI permit would provide certain advantages and save you $. If you don't like permits then you probably don't have one and will never change your mind.

48 hour "cooling off period" does not exist in every state, so why do we have it?

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

(GFSZ) who knows if it will ever make to SCOTUS, how long it will take or what the outcome will be.
(NICS) not a big issue. I think the background check is still instantaneous, the 48 hours is for you to "cool off" - I guess if you were in the sauna.
(NR vs RECIP) - still paying $ for government permission (and doesn't help in CO, MI and SC). If a WI permits existed, how many recognitions/reciprocities would be likely? If structured properly close to 40. Forget about HI, OR, MD, MA, RI, NJ, NY, DE in any case. How much could you save by not needing FL, PA, UT, VA, etc.?

If you really don't want/need the "benefits" of a WI permit, of course there is no requirement to obtain one. The questions are (1) What advantages to OC derive from the lack of a CC permit system? (2) What are the fears that a CC permit system conjures up for those who would only OC anyway?

In sum, if you already purchase permits from other states, a good WI permit would provide certain advantages and save you $. If you don't like permits then you probably don't have one and will never change your mind.

I understand and appreciate your points. My major point is this. WI has never met a fee it didn't like to increase. If WI sets up the bureaucracy for permits for cc, they will find ways to make additional money off of it. This past administration, for example, bumped the vehicle license from $45 per year to $75 by simply doing it in a budget bill. The money for that was supposed to be for roads, however, he raided the fund and moved it to the general fund.

While the next Governor probably won't do it during his 1st term, fiscal realities might cause some other administration to say, 'hey, they are paying $100 for a 5 year cc permit and we are freedom hating and need money so we will raise it to $300'.

We need to work on our Federal legislators to fix the GFSZ and the state one will probably go by the wayside in the next year or so.

 

[apjonas]

The same reason WI doesn't have CC..

There should be no restrictions on where, when, or how people carry.



48 hour "cooling off period" does not exist in every state, so why do we have it?

There is obviously something wrong with Wisconsinites. Or it could be the air. Why else would a person carrying in MI, IA or MI suddenly become a danger to society once the border is crossed.

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

The federal GFSZ law says that it will not apply to a person licensed to carry a firearm in that state. It does not say that the gun must be concealed or what manner of carry must be covered by the license..

You are not permitted to OC with a strictly CCW permit. Therefore, merely possessing your permit is not an exception to OC as you would not be carrying under the terms of your permit. You are not "Licensed to do so"....

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

48 hour "cooling off period" does not exist in every state, so why do we have it?

Every State was required to have a waiting period by the Brady Act initially. This requirement sunset on November 30th 1998 and the requirement for the NICS system being used for all firearm transfers by FFLs came into effect. Wisconsin has had a 48 hour waiting period since 1978 and our liberal government has not been compelled to repeal it and has been encouraged to keep it by the Madison/Milwaukee liberal voters.

 

[phred]

There is obviously something wrong with Wisconsinites. Or it could be the air. Why else would a person carrying in MI, IA or MI suddenly become a danger to society once the border is crossed.

Maybe it's the cheese, brats and beer.

 

[davegran]

Don't forget teacher's rights to seld-defense

....They need to change the GFSZ law to say no guns on school in a school building. I do not think we need anything more than that because quite frankly, criminals won't abide by those laws either.

I'd rather that the law read, "No weapons on school property when engaged in criminal activity." That way, a teacher could be legally armed on the job.

 

[Tweety]

I'd rather that the law read, "No weapons on school property when engaged in criminal activity." That way, a teacher could be legally armed on the job.

That is a really good point Dave, I think you have just changed my perspective on that.

 

[Jon Bonavia]

Thank you, Mr. Knight, for the measure of the strength of liberalism in Wisconsin.

Thank you for the warm welcome. It seems that they are hard to come by here.

 

[protias]

I'd rather that the law read, "No weapons on school property when engaged in criminal activity." That way, a teacher could be legally armed on the job.

Why do people continue to focus on the location rather than the crime? This would be like saying, "It is illegal to commit a crime in a Best Buy, but it is more illegal to commit it at a Subway." Let's focus on the crime rather than the location.

 

[Crassus]

Protius I noticed the link in your signature for the videos. Why don't you just make a thread and have it stickied?

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

Why do people continue to focus on the location rather than the crime? This would be like saying, "It is illegal to commit a crime in a Best Buy, but it is more illegal to commit it at a Subway." Let's focus on the crime rather than the location.

+1!!!!

Even add in a weapon enhancer!

Robbery, 1 year in jail, armed robbery 5 years in jail.

Walking into school with a handgun, no problem. Shooting into school, big problem!

 

[Yooper]

You are not permitted to OC with a strictly CCW permit. Therefore, merely possessing your permit is not an exception to OC as you would not be carrying under the terms of your permit. You are not "Licensed to do so"....

You would still be able to OC if a CCW permit was put into place, provided they left OC alone. Otherwise, it would be like telling someone that just because they have a permit (license) to drive, that they are no longer allowed to walk. Now if they said you have to have a permit to OC, then that's a whole different animal.

Here in MI, we have a CPL (Concealed Pistol License), and it in no way affects how we can carry. We can still OC if we wish even if we have a CPL. The one thing that it does change is where we can OC. With a CPL, we can OC virtually anywhere (schools, colleges, theaters etc) where CC and OC are prohibited.

 

[oak1971]

Thank you, Mr. Knight, for the measure of the strength of liberalism in Wisconsin.

Thank you for the warm welcome. It seems that they are hard to come by here.

Your purpose is to disrupt or gain intel and I predict your tenure will be short.

 

[Jon Bonavia]

Thank you again, Mr. Huckleberry, I am here to be educated, that you call "intel". Some may call it 'forensics' public speaking.

 

[XDFDE45]

Thank you again, Mr. Huckleberry, I am here to be educated, that you call "intel". Some may call it 'forensics' public speaking.

If that is really the case then you should go out and buy the book "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott. Also gun ownership has been on a steady rise yet crime has gone down. Notice a trend there?