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The Interplay Between Concealed and Open Carry

Jon Bonavia

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Dec 9, 2010
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Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
The first text on page 100 of the third edition are "Do laws allowing individuals to carry concealed handguns". On what page of my signed first edition do those words appear?


ETA much later: Yo time is up! Page 97.

Chapter Five starts on page 97 of the First Edition HB and page 100 of the PB third edition.
 
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protias

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Dec 18, 2008
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SE, WI
+1!!!!

Even add in a weapon enhancer!

Robbery, 1 year in jail, armed robbery 5 years in jail.

Walking into school with a handgun, no problem. Shooting into school, big problem!

Please do not focus on location. One could then say, it is less illegal to fire into a crowd, but more illegal to fire at a government building. Both are done to create bodily harm.

Thank you again, Mr. Huckleberry, I am here to be educated, that you call "intel". Some may call it 'forensics' public speaking.

Who do you keep calling Mr. Huckleberry?
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

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Chandler, AZ
Please do not focus on location. One could then say, it is less illegal to fire into a crowd, but more illegal to fire at a government building. Both are done to create bodily harm.



Who do you keep calling Mr. Huckleberry?

Sorry, bad example, shoot into any building, including a school, big problem.

Oak1911 has 'I'm your Huckleberry' in his sig. I assume Ms Bonavia is referring to that.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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You would still be able to OC if a CCW permit was put into place, provided they left OC alone. Otherwise, it would be like telling someone that just because they have a permit (license) to drive, that they are no longer allowed to walk. Now if they said you have to have a permit to OC, then that's a whole different animal..
My point was that OC would not be exempt from GFSZ restrictions if our permit system was strictly a Concealed Carry Permit. You would only be exempt from the GFSZ restrictions if you are carrying in accordance with and under the terms of your permit.

Here in MI, we have a CPL (Concealed Pistol License), and it in no way affects how we can carry. We can still OC if we wish even if we have a CPL. The one thing that it does change is where we can OC. With a CPL, we can OC virtually anywhere (schools, colleges, theaters etc) where CC and OC are prohibited.
I do not have the time to look right now, but I am willing to bet that your GFSZ Statute allows for that exception.
 
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Interceptor_Knight

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Thank you, Mr. Knight, for the measure of the strength of liberalism in Wisconsin..
Go ahead and try to prove me wrong. Gun rights is simply not a part of the Democratic platform either in our home State of Wisconsin or nationally. As but one example, although an overwhelming majority of Wisconsin Union members are "Sportsmen", I don't see Union leadership being vocal against gun control.
 

jpm84092

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Mar 5, 2010
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Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
+1!!!!

Even add in a weapon enhancer!

Robbery, 1 year in jail, armed robbery 5 years in jail.

Walking into school with a handgun, no problem. Shooting into school, big problem!

Paul, this will never happen - it makes too much sense and would actually serve to deter crime. The liberal anti-gun types would never allow a gun law that actually could be shown to deter crime to make it into law. But it would be an ideal replacement for the Federal and WI GFSZ law as they presently exist.

One advantage of living in a (shall issue) State that issues permits for concealed carry and allows open carry (without a permit) is knowing how the current Federal Gun Free School Zones operate under the law as it currently exists. Perhaps my experiences can shed light on what might happen to permit carry vs constitutional carry with respect to the GFSZ act as it currently exists.

Utah permit on a person in Utah (resident or non-resident) - can carry concealed in a GFSZ including in the school buildings - can open carry in a GFSZ including the school buildings. Can carry Condition 1 either open or concealed.

No permit - open carry would not be legal in a GFSZ (except in your car). Utah Castle doctrine extends to your car. You can carry open or concealed, with or without a permit, in your home and your car (pickup, RV, etc). In Utah, open carry without a permit requires the handgun to be "unloaded" within the meaning of Utah Law - nothing in the pipe and two actions to fire for semi-automatics. Nothing under the hammer and next chamber empty for Revolvers.

Without a change to the Federal GFSZ law, Constitutional Carry would not protect against a GFSZ felony charge. Utah is considering Constitutional Carry and the local LEOs have two fears: 1) That because of ignorance, otherwise law abiding citizens will run afoul of the Federal GFSZ law, and 2) because training in the law was not required, otherwise law abiding citizens might unintentionally commit other firearms violations.

Having said that, I too believe that Constitutional Carry, open or concealed, is indeed the right of every US Citizen under the 2nd Amendment. With that right is an obligation to receive training in the applicable firearm laws; either in a formal setting or self-taught as each person chooses after evaluating how well they might stand up in a civil liability action. However, it will take a while for the laws to catch up to McDonald v Chicago. Politicians are loathe to repeal "feel good but do nothing" acts like the GFSZ laws.

Hound those Wisconsin legislators. Utah is obne of the few CFP States that allows open or concealed carry in a GFSZ. Nevada for instance, forbids open or concealed carry on school grounds - even with a Nevada CFP (except that you may remain in your car to pick up a student and having a Nevada permit does get you inside the 1000 foot magical veil, just not on school property). In order for a CFP to allow a person to carry in a GFSZ the State Legislature must allow it AND the state must issue a permit based on a background check. The part about the background check was left off an earlier citation of federal statute.

Bottom line, Constitutional Carry will not supercede the current federal GFSZ. The only way that happens without a change to the federal law is if WI issues permits based on background checks.
 
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Jon Bonavia

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The NEXUS program operated by the Fed. USCBP and CBSA should satisfy any background question, is not operated by the states, will not add to the states tax/employment burden and should be quite sufficient for any background investigation requirement of the states. The state mandated permit prerequisites are not to ensure law abiding civilians but to funnel dollars into favorite coffers.
 

Yooper

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Houghton County, Michigan, USA
My point was that OC would not be exempt from GFSZ restrictions if our permit system was strictly a Concealed Carry Permit. You would only be exempt from the GFSZ restrictions if you are carrying in accordance with and under the terms of your permit.


I do not have the time to look right now, but I am willing to bet that your GFSZ Statute allows for that exception.

It would exempt you from the federal GFSZA. The federal GFSZA lists the exemptions, and doesn't mention how it is carried.
 

Interceptor_Knight

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It would exempt you from the federal GFSZA. The federal GFSZA lists the exemptions, and doesn't mention how it is carried.

No... It does not.
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

You are not licensed to carry a firearm Openly ("licensed to do so") therefore you are not licensed to "possess" the firearm. That is why you are not exempt from the Federal GFSZ while you OC with a strictly Concealed carry permit.
 

apjonas

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I am not sure what is being suggested here but

The NEXUS program operated by the Fed. USCBP and CBSA should satisfy any background question, is not operated by the states, will not add to the states tax/employment burden and should be quite sufficient for any background investigation requirement of the states. The state mandated permit prerequisites are not to ensure law abiding civilians but to funnel dollars into favorite coffers.

NEXUS is a program to facilitate the crossing of the U.S./Canada border. I know of no provision that permits the system to be used for other purposes. There are still fees involved and applicants must travel to a designated center to be interviewed. Some clarification would be nice.
 
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