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"stupid" oc move in missouri!!!!
- Thread starter mspgunner
- Start date
OC for ME
Regular Member
My point is lost on some of our fellow citizens. With overwhelming majorities in both the house and senate the timidness of our elected 'leaders' is beyond the pale. The introduction of bill(s) is not the same as fully supporting the bills submitted even by those who submit the bills.
As to that 'public opinion' issue, I believe that public opinion is on our side, overwhelmingly so, and the political opinion is on their side. Because political critters seek political opinion to the detriment of the public opinion. How on earth do you think that 21.750.3 got passed into law.
Further evidence the 'uptick' of firearm sales, in Colorado. The average citizen knows what to do. It is the timid of spirit and the weak of mind that fail to see what is clearly in front of them.
Our elected vermin are timid of spirit and weak of mind, and they continually turn a blind eye to the will of the people in their currying of the favor of the few who are not our allies in our quest for liberty.
No, what you pointed out is that you simply have no clue what my opinion is sir, none what so ever and you simply seek to argue.
My opinion is quite simple, the right to arms, for one and all, no exclusions, no restrictions other than while in custody or during court proceedings, at no other time what so ever should anyone ever be denied the right to arms and no methodolgy of baring those arms should ever be regulated by anyone other than the person making that choice for themselves, the end.
I pointed out that opinions on MANY firearms forums clearly indicate that a vast majority of gun owners who participate in internet forums consider the man legally carring a firearm openly into a place similar to a recent criminal activity location is a VERY BAD IDEA. My own opinion on that activity has nothing to do with legality and every thing to do with public opinion as this has clearly been defined as the major excuse for the additional taking of rights here in Missouri as OC has become restricted in several municipalities and indeed "public opinion" was the cry of those in power as they dropped the gavel and pushed forward with these new laws.
Working with those in power at the state level to attempt to try and remove the power from municipalities to violate our rights was a major effort last year by a very few people and several gun owners groups offered NO ASSISTANCE what so ever, some pledged to actually RESIST the effort and the largest gun owners group the NRA absolutely derailed and gutted an actual step forward that made it through committee and had great potential to get at least a partial expemtion for those with a CCW license, but thanks to the NRA, they have actually potentialy made something that was never a problem before a real problem now.
Since a summary of NC laws clearly indicate that your premeption still allows for restriction of OC in VERY similar ways, I would suggest you start replacing your own legislators and fix your own yard before you worry too much about Missouri, we have enough cluless legislators, we do not need clueless advocates running off at the mouth about our yard while their grass needs to be mowed.
Any more questions?
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
We do try to fix things in our own backyard, but most of us here do not go around calling others stupid for exercising our rights. We have very little problems here with the public and open carrying. You want to know why? Because we do open carry and we stand up to the politicians instead of harassing LAC. We are actively fighting with those politicians to get those restrictions removed. Most of us do not suck up to timid politicians. States like Il, and Mass, have unconstitutional laws for a reason, ultimately it is their fault. If you have laws in your state that are unconstitutional it is the will of the people. It is NOT the fault of one law abiding citizen. That is foolish and dumb in any state.
I suggest you check out the NC forums, specifically the experience reports. You will find that they are overwhelmingly positive. Think about it.
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Redbaron007
Regular Member
Did you read all of LMTD's post?
Just one question, if you handle your reps like you said you do, how come you don't have preemptive OC?
It sounds like you have a lot of talk, but may not know what the Sam Hill is actually going on. Just my humble observation/opinion.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Did you read all of LMTD's post?
Just one question, if you handle your reps like you said you do, how come you don't have preemptive OC?
It sounds like you have a lot of talk, but may not know what the Sam Hill is actually going on. Just my humble observation/opinion.
Maybe you need to check~we do have preemptive OC. What we also have are some restrictions, like alcohol in a restaurant, and also paid venues. But on the whole we have very little problems with the public, and very few bad encounters with law enforcement and the public. OC is very normal here. What I have noticed from these boards is that the states where there is problems there also is back biting. Maybe it is just a coincidence.
But the battles that have been won on here and off has come from people with courage and determination to exercise their rights. They are not stupid, they are to be commended.
Redbaron007
Regular Member
So why do you have restrictions on preemptive OC, that sounds unconstitutional; why haven't you guys fixed that. If you guys are so great at TELLING legislators what to do, why is their restrictions? Just asking.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
So why do you have restrictions on preemptive OC, that sounds unconstitutional; why haven't you guys fixed that. If you guys are so great at TELLING legislators what to do, why is their restrictions? Just asking.
Do you think calling LAC in NC stupid would fix it?
Redbaron007
Regular Member
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
Again check our forums, just is not a problem here. Guess maybe we are just smarter than other states.
Redbaron007
Regular Member
Sure....whatever you say. :shocker:
I've got a gut feeling you have never been involved in legislative action except to just vote or send an email to your rep.
Thanks for your $.02.
DocWalker
Regular Member
I don't think him carrying in a theater is insensitive, after all you never know were or when you might need to defend yourself. With the event in CO. one might want to be extra cautious going to see a movie for fear of a copy cat. The thing about this is you never know when or were.
The other question is does he have the ability to CC or is the person only able to OC due to age or not having a CC card? Is someones life worth less because it might be seen as insensitive to OC or should only people with the ability to CC be allowed to protect themselves at a movie now?
The other question is does he have the ability to CC or is the person only able to OC due to age or not having a CC card? Is someones life worth less because it might be seen as insensitive to OC or should only people with the ability to CC be allowed to protect themselves at a movie now?
Boba Fett
Regular Member
Sure way to prove you're opinion is correct: Saying you're smarter
Man I just can't seem to find that tip in my public speaking book!
xdmcompact
Regular Member
Someone made the design I just changed it around a little. I just made a shirt for myself, had it made down at a local screen printing place by my house. Just copy the design and have one made.
Here's one I just had made.
Here are some I modified of others designs
I will openly admit, I have not read the official laws of your state, but I find this site often leads one to good information, at times it is out of date, perhaps you can get it corrected if it remains so, but here are the entries for NC premptions:
Complete state preemption of firearms laws except localities may regulate the possession of firearms:
In public-owned buildings
On the grounds or parking areas of those buildings
In public parks or recreation areas
Additionally, under NC Code Chapter 14 � 160A.189, a city may by ordinance ... regulate the display of firearms on the streets, sidewalks, alleys, or other public property.
While the word "display" does not appear to be defined in the Code, some localities in NC have adopted, or are considering adopting ordinances like the city of Chapel Hill's which restrict the open carry of handguns.
This was challenged in State v. Fennell (1989) and the NC Court of Appeals upheld previous NC court decisions stating that the guarantee of an individual right to openly bear arms in the NC constitution was subject to reasonable regulation declaring that "a pistol shall not be under a certain length."
Also understand your huge misunderstanding of myself limits your vision into who i am and I would LOVE to be wrong about ALL of the above and find that you indeed have an OC, no permit required anywhere in the state and no one may alter that beyond a constitutuional amendment, but I do not believe you have made the trip yet sir.
In Missouri we are in the middle seeing wins and losses and whether you have the capabilities to understand the "court of public opinion" having impact upon it or not has nothing to do with POLITICAL REALITY.
Vote em out? Remains a somewhat diffacult task when you have the RINO's to play with and then there are the districts that tend to have a lot of folks casting ballots from the grave, not to mention holding voting places open beyond the posted hours because the results are not favorable etc.
Was gunners language strong calling it stupid, as I said early on, depends upon view. In the view of public opinion acrioss several forums related to firearms, the vote remains that it was indeed a "very bad idea" "stupid" "dangerous""insensitive" etc at overwhelming rates, none of which change the legal status of it.
I can assure you of one thing, had we been successful in getting our state -premption and not getting hosed by the NRA, I can assure you gunner would have been screaming about the mans right just as well, but since efforts exist for current sessions and the upcomming one, it kinda pisses him off to have another politician say "I can't be associated with that" and since the optional choice to that politician is a libtard, I would offer that as much of a pain and distasteful as they are, RINO's beat libtards each and every time.
If you had any concepts of MO politics and what happened to get CCW for this state including the libtards using the very constitution of this state which has language such as yours "shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons" as an indication that a concealed weapons permit system itself was unconstitutional and sue to the supreme court of the state trying to stop it.
Mow your own lawn before complaining about our weeds, we got enough of them to work on without the clueless gawkers scapegoating.
papa bear
Regular Member
look , there are only three states in the Union that has close to perfection in gun laws. we should all be working toward those goals. there maybe some gun laws in MO, i don't know i have not done a comparison
but the point is this, don't hide it under a basket. Open Carry will get people used to it so they will not run away screaming. one of the reasons open carry is OK in NC is that we do it
join your local grass roots org. to push for your rights. get active, get involved. go to meet and greets.
just do something
but the point is this, don't hide it under a basket. Open Carry will get people used to it so they will not run away screaming. one of the reasons open carry is OK in NC is that we do it
join your local grass roots org. to push for your rights. get active, get involved. go to meet and greets.
just do something
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
BINGO!
It's not that we have better or worse laws in NC, we exercise what we preach, and we certainly do not go around calling each other stupid for exercising those rights. The point of inviting others to the NC forums was not to gloat, but for others to see that we have very few problems here with the public, and law enforcement as well. I believe the same is for Virgina. Look to the states that do have great laws, and see if they go around calling their brethren stupid. IMO if you want the numpty or timid politicians to know you are serious, stop cowering and show them. Ya know like your state slogan says "Show Me", well dammit one of your own did that.
Hmmm, parhaps there is something I am missing, Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, and Wyoming are all four doing a real good job. WY's CCW requirement for non-residents is the only weak point I am aware of at all myself, however something could have changed, too bad for montanna, they came close, perhaps the next round for them.
No one ever suggested to hide it under a basket, someone said it is stupid to associate OC with a tragic event one day later. There may have been 25 ccw persons in the same theater the day the OC'er was asked to leave. My point has been, still is, and nothing at all has changed in the past three days, but it is indeed starting to fade away, is the simple fact that the vast majority of persons discussing the incident clearly do not support the OC'ers position whether you and I do is irrealavent. Politicians listen to the majority or their perception of the majority position, many if not nearly all believe THEY know what is best for US without regard for being our employee or the constitutions of the state and country.
Gunner's comment of "stupid" was likely typed while OC'ing, it is not unusual behavior for myself either, though it has become less as i now have to visit several different states and have little time to research.
? join a grass roots org... Again, no offense, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Both gunner and myself are indeed two of the most active persons pushing politicians, there are indeed others in the grassroots effort for Mo as well, they simply make the choice not to talk much about it here because there are indeed too many alternative thoughts to even begin dealing with.
The more interesting question for myself is, how did the media get involved in this at all. As an avid open carry advocate here in MO, I can name several persons detained, some more than once and it NEVER made the news exclusive of one incident where an OC'er made some poor choices when speaking and that one clearly has exposed a direct line from the popo to the media aka the popo likely called the media themselves, none of the rest including my own in Feb of this year garnered any attention.
If there is a church shooting that hits major media or even local media, I will continue to OC, however I will not OC into a church and give the media or popo the chance to turn it into something it never was like they often do, it will not help the cause. We need POSITIVE press and discussions about OC, not discussions stemming from a negative event. It is not the OC'er in Ozark's fault, however, observing the media hype surrounding the other event and the fact that they are activly trying to use it as a reason to add new gun laws, most folks do not think it is wise to give the media a chance to point and say "see look at this problem" over and over. We indeed got REAL lucky with the story and the police officers response. I can assure you, there is plenty of video evidence here in MO that that response is NOT typical. Some how it seems those of you visiting the forum from NC can not understand the concept, there is SIGNIFICANT resistance to OC in MO.
It is however just my opinion, one that is shared by some and not by others, but when others come into the discussion and begin ranting on about things they have no concept of, like MO politics with a better than you mentality when they are talking to the very people who are talking face to face with the politicians, you should expect nothing less than "you haven't a clue" just as i would be if I began ranting about how your doing it all wrong in NC. Might not be the case in NC, but if you want face to face efforts with the MO legislature on a volitile issue, you had better not have any association with bad press or the door will simply close. It is not a hard concept, it is not a fair one, it is actually nearly unconstitutional, but none of that matters because you are still standing outside the door and the replacement offer on the table would never listen to you anyway.
Political reality in mo: don't play with fire, you can get burned and it does not matter if playing with fire is legal.
Again you speak of it like you have a clue. THERE IS ABSOLUTE RESISTANCE TO OC EFFORTS IN MO FROM LIBERAL ANTI GUNNERS TO THE nra and ACROSS GUN OWNERS AS WELL.
While the politicians know we are indeed serious, they also know those who oppose our efforts like the NRA, city organizations, and the anti gunners are just as serious.
Like our slogan says, the man in Ozark indeed showed them and then the media showed them that the police escorted him from the building, something a lot of those opposing have expressed is a real good idea and as another door closed on of "us" who seek OC simply said it was really stupid to do something that closed another door. If you indeed do surf other firearms forums, then you would find yourself observing the same thing i have, a lot of gun owners talking about what a bad idea it was for him to do it and even the better responses start with the infamous "it is his right but" and frankly that is a large part of the problem with this country. Everyone giving up the "rights for warm and fuzzy do not offend"
That does not turn it into a good idea in the political arena in MO at this time, perhaps the future will change it, but as long as we have foes like the NRA, media, and city orgs like the municipal league activly fighting OC, high profile incidents will remain unpopular with those in power, again, whether you or I like it. If you have a cool million in your pocket, we can line some political campaign pockets like those against us do, ut until someone comes up with it, replacing them is not so easy.
Uhm, tiny history lesson for you, MO may be the only state who has elected a deceased anti-gun democrat to the US SENATE. While we may or may not agree personally with your positions, they are totally irealavent in a state where dead folks not only vote but are indeed elected to national legislative offices. if nothing else, you should at least understand from this simple fact, the political landscape in MO does NOT mirror NC so what applies are not the same standards.
Festus_Hagen
Regular Member
It has been done over and over. Sometimes resulting in bans of OC in municipalities . Guess what ? They showed US by banning OC ! THAT is what happens in Mo. when you OC at a bad time such as this we speak of .
I have to agree with Rich , you have no idea about Mo. OC climate and no idea what is even going on .
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