"stupid" oc move in missouri!!!!

[SavageOne]

I was a little wrong of the circumstances and location and I just wanted to clarify. It was not AZ, it was Alamogordo, NM. Here are some links to the story from OCDO.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...d-gun-in-theater&highlight=alamogordo+theater


http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...en-carry-lawsuit&highlight=alamogordo+theater


Sorry, about the inaccuracies of my earlier post.

The ruling(from a federal court) said that the OCer's Fourth Amendment rights had been violated by the LEOs. I still think a person would have a good case that LEOs cannot ask someone to leave in lieu of the property owner. They cannot act as bouncers for bars(while on duty), they cannot transport a shop keepers receipts to the bank for them. They should not therefore be able to trespass someone for the owner.

Since it has been established that the carrying of an openly displayed handgun is not a criminal violation, I can't see a judge allowing LEOs to ask someone to leave, if the property owner is unwilling to. While I am a firm believer in the rights of a property owner, they must also accept the responsibilities incurred when opening their property to others.



Also discussed here


http://www.volokh.com/2009/10/01/po...simply-because-hes-openly-carrying-a-handgun/

 

[Festus_Hagen]

Shop owner could say he was scared to confront an armed man .
Called cops .
Done deal .

 

[WalkingWolf]

Shop owner could say he was scared to confront an armed man .
Called cops .
Done deal .

With cops there it was still the employee's responsibility to tell him to leave, IMO.

 

[OC for ME]

<snip> In NC, a concealed weapons carry permit is officially abbreviated CCWP, not CHP, which I always think as the California Highway Patrol.

Other states describe, label, refer to their CCW documents differently. Some states have 'carry permits' regardless of carry method. Other states do not require a permit to carry, OC or CC, within their state borders.

What is a LEA? Is that an LEO on administrative leave or just a misspelling or something else.

Is this a 'trick question'?

<snip> Thanks for listening

OK, here goes....'reading', not 'listening'.

 

[OC for ME]

Shop owner could say he was scared to confront an armed man .
Called cops .
Done deal .

Granted....it is what it is.

The cops should have followed the law and 'volunteered' to escort the 'manager' to the OCer and then witness the manager asking the OCer to leave the premises.

 

[Festus_Hagen]

Granted....it is what it is.

The cops should have followed the law and 'volunteered' to escort the 'manager' to the OCer and then witness the manager asking the OCer to leave the premises.

I don't think we have definite proof it didn't happen that way .

Either way, I think the argument is void who should do what . All he has to say is he " felt too uncomfortable " or something of the like to approach him .

 

[Festus_Hagen]

With cops there it was still the employee's responsibility to tell him to leave, IMO.

This is Mo. , not NC .

IMO ,and probably any judge in our state, he was perfectly within the law.

 

[OC for ME]

Can a cop become a 'authorized person' at the request of property management? I guess I could become a 'authorized person' if property management asked me to talk to the guy. The cops are not all in a tizzy over this. I'd place that theater on the 'The List'......start bad mouthing them on obscure gun nut websites.

It would be nice if the 'stupid' OCer would tell his side of the story.

What bugs me is the running him for warrants crap. That should be the focus of our ire.....except for this nitwit, all by himself, nobody but him to blame, single-handedly ruining any chance for preemption this next legislative session.

Nitwittery abounds.....

 

[WalkingWolf]

This is Mo. , not NC .

IMO ,and probably any judge in our state, he was perfectly within the law.

And Mo is not Colorado, so how could it be insensitive. Seems some in Mo are speaking for the good people of Colorado.

 

[Redbaron007]

And Mo is not Colorado, so how could it be insensitive. Seems some in Mo are speaking for the good people of Colorado.

No offense, but are you a Troll? You seem to exhibit several traits of one.

 

[Festus_Hagen]

No offense, but are you a Troll? You seem to exhibit several traits of one.

Yea, that's what I'm getting too .

As was said, mow your own grass . We are trying to trim our own . Thx .

 

[Festus_Hagen]

Can a cop become a 'authorized person' at the request of property management? I guess I could become a 'authorized person' if property management asked me to talk to the guy. The cops are not all in a tizzy over this. I'd place that theater on the 'The List'......start bad mouthing them on obscure gun nut websites.

It would be nice if the 'stupid' OCer would tell his side of the story.

What bugs me is the running him for warrants crap. That should be the focus of our ire.....except for this nitwit, all by himself, nobody but him to blame, single-handedly ruining any chance for preemption this next legislative session.

Nitwittery abounds.....

Yes, they could become "authorized persons" .

They could also run him on the grounds of " we are trying to figure out if he was about to commit a crime " . I'm not saying I like it, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I wish he would tell his story as well .

As for the legislative session , what are your plans this year to try and help get preemption ? I will be active , as I'm sure you will . Just wonderin' if you have any ideas to toss around . :dude:

 

[Burns]

So just because some guy with metal problems commits crimes in a theater, we should not carry in one? THAT'S ALL THE MORE REASON TO CARRY....

 

[SavageOne]

This is Mo. , not NC .

IMO ,and probably any judge in our state, he was perfectly within the law.

I am not sure that a judge would look at the situation the same. As discussed in the last paragraph here


http://www.volokh.com/2009/10/01/po...simply-because-hes-openly-carrying-a-handgun/


How afraid of the OCer could the staff have been if they were willing to allow the person to re-enter the theater and watch a movie, simply without his firearm? They could not have been that in fear of man. That simply leaves the gun they were afraid of.

If it was the gun they were afraid of then they could have called the police and asked them to be there when they asked the man to leave. How afraid could they be to preform their responsibilities, with armed LEOs right there?


Finally, do you have any evidence to back up you claim about all the judges in MO? Case decisions,rulings, judicial opinion? If you don't, might I suggest you don't use wild hyperbole to try and slap down someone just because they're from another state and have the audacity to challenge you on your own state's forum.

 

[SavageOne]

No offense, but are you a Troll? You seem to exhibit several traits of one.

Yea, that's what I'm getting too .

As was said, mow your own grass . We are trying to trim our own . Thx .

So, if we check your posts will we find that you have posted in other states forums?

Posting in another states forum does not make you a Troll, it provides a different viewpoint. Using that someone from a different state doesn't know what's going on in your state as the only argument against them does not cast you in the most intelligent light.

 

[Festus_Hagen]

So, if we check your posts will we find that you have posted in other states forums?

Nope.

 

[SavageOne]

Yes, they could become "authorized persons" .

They could also run him on the grounds of " we are trying to figure out if he was about to commit a crime " . I'm not saying I like it, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I wish he would tell his story as well .

As for the legislative session , what are your plans this year to try and help get preemption ? I will be active , as I'm sure you will . Just wonderin' if you have any ideas to toss around . :dude:

Could you give a cite where LEOs on duty can in fact become an authorized person?


Also, you argument " we are trying to figure out if he was about to commit a crime " was rejected by the federal court in the NM case I mentioned. As discussed in the first paragraph here




http://www.volokh.com/2009/10/01/po...simply-because-hes-openly-carrying-a-handgun/


I will agree with you and wish the OCer would stop by OCDO, I personally would advise him to check into the NM case. The parallels between his situation and the NM case seem very similar. A legal suit with an federal case on point should not be to hard to win.

 

[Festus_Hagen]

No, I have not looked that up , I'm just playing devils advocate . Sorta playing like I'm " The Man " if you will, to try and say what I think " he " would say .

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that unless someone ponies up ( a lot of talk goes on about " I'd do this, I'd do that" here, but it never happens ) for a lawyer and takes it to a judge and a jury , it's all " you vs. the word of a well respected LEO " to them .

Again, not saying it's right, because it's not . Just inducing some thinking here is all .

 

[SavageOne]

No, I have not looked that up , I'm just playing devils advocate . Sorta playing like I'm " The Man " if you will, to try and say what I think " he " would say .

I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that unless someone ponies up ( a lot of talk goes on about " I'd do this, I'd do that" here, but it never happens ) for a lawyer and takes it to a judge and a jury , it's all " you vs. the word of a well respected LEO " to them .

Again, not saying it's right, because it's not . Just inducing some thinking here is all .

I personally believe the only way we are going to get real change in MO is through litigation. I posed a question about that here

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?94637-How-is-OC-only-with-a-CCW-legal


I find it interesting that you bring up a common theme that arose in that discussion, someone(else) paying for it. In post #9 of that thread I discussed forming a legal action fund for the state, to pay for such litigation. Let's just say that the reception was less than tepid. It seems that the MO streak of individuality runs strong in our OCers. They are such staunch individuals as to refuse even the idea of coming together in a group to try and change the law for all. I hope someday this may change, but who knows?

 

[paul@paul-fisher.com]

I OC'ed to Batman and used it as a conversation starter emphasizing that the theater in CO was posted.

With friends like you, I don't need enemies. (the op).

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