TFred
Regular Member
The point is that it doesn't matter what happens. They could hand you an ice cream cone and a chocolate chip cookie, and it's still against the law for them to demand that you tell them if you are carrying a gun.
TFred
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Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office
- Thread starter Esanders2008
- Start date
TFred
I can tell you what happens from my own experience. I have attended meetings there in the Operations Division (located in the same building) and have also attended meetings at two of the other three precincts. I have never left my weapon in my vehicle. Out of courtesy I have told them that I had my weapon with me (the decision to do so was to eliminate any "downstream" questions -- this gets it out of the way in the beginning). I have attended meetings with Sgts. regarding patrol activities, with the Crime Prevention Sgt. regarding neighborhood watch, and meetings with precinct Lt. and Capt., and also with Operations Division staff. I have never had anyone raise any concerns but have been told more than once that if I choose to carry my weapon that there are secure areas that I may not be able to access (which made no difference at all for what I was there for -- as I was meeting in conference rooms, etc.).
It would be interesting to know which Sgt. this was, as it could have been someone from Command Duty assignment, or possibly just a First Precinct duty Sgt. -- but lacking any authority to state what he did. There are citizen advisory meetings with the precinct Capt. where this could be asked, but it is more likely that this needs to be raised with the Operation Division Deputy Chief, since any policy about what takes place in any precinct has to be cleared by him. That is Tony Zucaro.
Esanders2008
Regular Member
That is an interesting point. Perhaps the sign needs a different wording then, such as "Please be advised that weapons are prohibited in certain restricted areas in the building. If you are planning to enter such an area, please speak to the desk sgt if you need to secure your weapon "
Just my opinion, please weigh it and let me know what you all think.
Frankly I think that it would be silly to have a sign like that but I suppose that there may well be those who wouldn't consider the problem with attempting to carry a weapon into an area where there might be a prisoner, etc.
I personally don't like that they have any signage. That is kind of typical of how VA BH does things. As mentioned above, it seems likely that the signage exists to intimidate you into not carrying as the wording could be taken to mean that you have been told that you cannot. Add to that the obviously incorrect response by the Sgt. and the two together at least to me come across as them doing something that they legally cannot do.
But again, this is kind of typical. They were that way about the CHP requirement to take to that same location for drop-off. And they are that way about a municipal code regarding stop and ID and I have their written response to that one -- they just "believe" whatever is most convenient for supporting actions that they have already decided that they want to take whether that position is actually supported by law or not.
DrMark
Lone Star Veteran
No, the point is that I want to know what happens when you advise the desk officer that you're carrying.
This I agree with. I believe they have no authority to make extra-legal gun-related demands, including the demand you specified.
DrMark
Lone Star Veteran
Thanks drdan01.
Thundar
Regular Member
Google Drive
Here is what I got when I clicked on the link:
Sorry, you can't view or download this file at this time.
Too many users have viewed or downloaded this file recently. Please try accessing the file again later. If the file you are trying to access is particularly large or is shared with many people, it may take up to 24 hours to be able to view or download the file. If you still can't access a file after 24 hours, contact your domain administrator.
Esanders2008
Regular Member
Wow who knew my recording would be so popular. If anyone knows any alternatives to hosting the video on google drive, please let me know
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Postcard sent.
Last edited:
Esanders2008
Regular Member
TFred
Regular Member
Lyndsy Simon
Regular Member
Legality aside, I'd also argue that the sign is putting the public at risk.
Consider this - I drive a Jeep. If I were to leave my firearm in my vehicle, there' really no way that I can make it "secure". I can meet the letter of the law, sure, but even if I have a safe bolted or attached to the tub with a steel cable, it would only take a pair of bolt cutters or maybe a small crowbar to gain access (or just take the whole safe).
My particular situation is uncommon, but the fact remains that no vehicle will ever be secure. They're literally designed with ease of movement as their primary function. If you ask people to leave a weapon in a vehicle, you've just created a parking lot where a relatively large number of the vehicles will have firearms stowed in them.
Alternatively, if one went inside and disarmed at their request, now I'm handling a firearm in a public place. My holster is a Serpa Blackhawk with the paddle attachment - I have three options - drop trou in the middle of the PD's lobby and remove the paddle from my waistband, ask for the nice clerk to stick his or her hands down my pants to hold back the claw on the inside while I do the same for the ones on the outside, or unholster my loaded weapon and hand it to a person whose training is an unknown to me.
Come to think of it... I might go by there and just drop my pants. That's certainly the most amusing option I see here.
Consider this - I drive a Jeep. If I were to leave my firearm in my vehicle, there' really no way that I can make it "secure". I can meet the letter of the law, sure, but even if I have a safe bolted or attached to the tub with a steel cable, it would only take a pair of bolt cutters or maybe a small crowbar to gain access (or just take the whole safe).
My particular situation is uncommon, but the fact remains that no vehicle will ever be secure. They're literally designed with ease of movement as their primary function. If you ask people to leave a weapon in a vehicle, you've just created a parking lot where a relatively large number of the vehicles will have firearms stowed in them.
Alternatively, if one went inside and disarmed at their request, now I'm handling a firearm in a public place. My holster is a Serpa Blackhawk with the paddle attachment - I have three options - drop trou in the middle of the PD's lobby and remove the paddle from my waistband, ask for the nice clerk to stick his or her hands down my pants to hold back the claw on the inside while I do the same for the ones on the outside, or unholster my loaded weapon and hand it to a person whose training is an unknown to me.
Come to think of it... I might go by there and just drop my pants. That's certainly the most amusing option I see here.
Esanders2008
Regular Member
Ha! That's good.
On a side note, I also carry with the same holster you do, and I never have a problem taking off the entire rig. HOWEVER, some people may not like the way I do it, because I end up with the muzzle in my hip :uhoh:
Lyndsy Simon
Regular Member
I use Amazon S3 for this sort of thing - there is a fee associated, but it's about $0.10 per GB transferred. If this file was downloaded 200 times, it would cost me almost a whole dime.
I rehosted it for you. If you want it taken down, just let me know:
Link
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
It is.. once you see it here, the horse is free and the door to the barn is wide open.
Esanders2008
Regular Member
Lyndsy Simon
Regular Member
Thank you! I appreciate your contribution.
Not a problem - in fact, I set up a bucket (sort of like a folder) named "VCDL". While I'm a member of the group, I'm brand new and certainly don't have authority to speak on their behalf. I'll make it a point to hook up with one of them as soon as I get a second. I don't mind hosting this sort of thing, as long as the costs don't get oo terribly out of hand. If they do, then we'll figure out a way to deal with that too.
As far as I'm concerned, if you're advancing the cause of Liberty, I'm your personal nerd.
wylde007
Regular Member
How would "secure area" make a difference? There is no jail attached to the Admin Building.
I asked the same question once to the Public Safety office and they gave me the same answer - it is a "request" and they cannot enforce it. I told them their sign might be illegal, but it was at the very least deliberately worded to discourage.
And you don't have to inform anybody. It is a "request" and is unenforceable.
Still... :banghead:
"Jail" is a whole different thing. In VA BH the precincts have "holding" areas which are secure rooms where a suspect can be held (the HQ inside of building 11 is also the First Precinct). Those are secure areas and you're not getting into the area that leads to those while carrying a weapon. And then there is the equipment checkout area - that is also a secure area. And I've never tried it as you have to agree to disarm as a condition for ride-alongs (so I then don't have my weapon anyway), but I believe that the inside the fence area where the patrol cars are kept and readied for shifts are probably considered as secure areas. Short version is that "jail" isn't an issue with precincts, but they each have secure areas that restrict weapons.