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Sign at Virginia Beach PD Office

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
The key word is "ASK".
They can ask what they want.
No, it's not legal to require it in the non secure public areas but again, they're only asking.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
skidmark walks into the VBPD and walks up to the desk officer in the lobby: "Where do I check out a cop?"

DO: Huh?
s: Your sign outside says to inform you that I can't secure my firearm in my car. Well, without a cop standing guard over it my firearm wouldn't be very secure in my vehicle while I'm in here, would it? So, what do I have to do to check out a cop to guard my firearm?
DO: ::facepalm:: ::headdesk:: :very heavy sigh:: OK, just go ahead and do what you came here to do. Just please leave me alone. OK?
s: So, I don't get to check out a cop?
DO: ::facepalm:: ::headdesk:: :very heavy sigh::
s: (under his breath) You try to follow the rules they make up and what do you get for it?


stay safe.
 
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TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
IMHO, this sign needs to come down or be drastically altered.

They can probably ASK anything they want, as noted earlier.

But when they go further to, in what my opinion is "command you", to inform them if you are carrying, that crosses the line in violation of an administrative action regulating the carry of a firearm.

TFred
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
IMHO, this sign needs to come down or be drastically altered.

They can probably ASK anything they want, as noted earlier.

But when they go further to, in what my opinion is "command you", to inform them if you are carrying, that crosses the line in violation of an administrative action regulating the carry of a firearm.

TFred

The sign is illegal.

Planning, ordering, installing the sign all required administrative action.

A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-915
 
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Grapeshot

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Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
So to whom do I have to speak with to get the sign removed?

You could try the Chief of PD, but I think you might have better luck with the County Attorney. If the doesn't work there is always the City Council.

I would go armed with the preemption code section and point out nicely where attorney's fees and costs can be recovered. The GA obviously did not want to leave any wiggle room on this to local municipalities.
 

XDS45

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
43
Location
Virginia Beach
So I'm just curious as to how this is seen as an illegal sign... It says that they ask for you to leave your firearm in your vehicle... They can ask me all I want but it won't happen. Now the please advise the D.O. I guess could be seen as a demand but to me still sounds like a request which I don't have to comply with. I say all of this but I h e been up for over 24hrs. Thanks
 

Grapeshot

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Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
So I'm just curious as to how this is seen as an illegal sign... It says that they ask for you to leave your firearm in your vehicle... They can ask me all I want but it won't happen. Now the please advise the D.O. I guess could be seen as a demand but to me still sounds like a request which I don't have to comply with. I say all of this but I h e been up for over 24hrs. Thanks

More to the point - what would the average person think in reading the sign. The sign is deliberately misleading, it gives a false impression.

To repeat the important part of the Code of Virginia: no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action..............other than those expressly authorized by statute.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+15.2-915
 

XDS45

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
43
Location
Virginia Beach
Thank you Grapeshot didn't think about it that way, but yes it probably would be misleading to most that read it.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
The sign is illegal.

Planning, ordering, installing the sign all required administrative action.

Yes, doing all those things require administrative action, but the administrative action is to create and erect the sign. No administrative action was taken to

... adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425,

And no agent took any administrative action governing
the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-915

As has been noted several times, they ask you to choose Option #1 or Option #2. Asking aint governing.

You might find it more comfortable if you untwisted your panties.

As for the contention that the average, unsophisticaded citizen reading that sign might interpret it to mean they could not take their handgun into the police station - you are probably correct. Unfortunately, the law looks to what a "reasonable" person would do - clearly indicating that the pereson seeing the sign can reason (a high-faluting word for "think") - which lets the average, unsophisticated citizen out of consideration, more's the pity.

stay safe.
 

Esanders2008

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
576
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
Just spoke to Sgt Minehan, VBPD, and he said "the building is owned by the city, so just like movie theaters can ban weapons, so can we" (paraphrase). I said no sir, that is not the case, let me read you the code. He interrupted, and said he is not going to argue with me, and that is the policy.

Oh boy.
 
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