Sen. Creigh Deeds stabbed, son shot

[Citizen]

How can I distort that? You were talking about this guy, since it's what the thread was about. And you were being slapped down because you guys were getting out of line.

<snicker>

The discussion was about praying for a good recovery.

 

[Primus]

<snicker>

The discussion was about praying for a good recovery.

Praying for who's recovery? The President? NO. Your proving my point, this was meant as a call for prayer for his good recovery. You and other jumped in and decided to bad mouth him and use words like enemy. ****** **** ------------.

 

[Citizen]

I QUOTED then BOLDED what you said.

Here's what you wrote: So let me get this straight... this guy was your sworn enemy, so much so that you would wish him to have his son die and him almost die?

Show me where I wrote that.

 

[Grapeshot]

There's a wide difference between what Primus says I wrote and what you bolded.

Are you joining the distortions, now?

Aren't you the one who railed against quoting out of context?

Almost die and not recovering are most similar and not distortions.


Again, if you cannot accept moderation, you know what to expect.

You are a guest, not a site owner. You accepted the rules/policies by posting here. Not abiding by that would seem to say something.

 

[Primus]

OK.

So, what I get from your post (in no particular order) is that I'm supposed be sympathetic to my enemies just because they have problems in life. (Nevermind the problems they create for me.) I'm supposed to apply Christian principles. And, that because he has supporters, I am supposed to be sympathetic to him.

Not a chance.

On the other hand, you have a somewhat valid argument with how he might remember our words when he gets back to government. But, all you're doing is validating my point that he might be worthy of ill wishes. It might be counter-productive to type them here--that's your point I consider valid. But, I can still have ill wishes for enemies even if I don't type them. Its having the ill wishes that is being criticized, not the counter-productivity of typing them here.

You did not use the word SWORN but you used enemy multiple times.

I get it... your back peddling like crazy. You posted this very post to try and push back and say you should be able to bash this guy. Once called out on it now its "oh I didn't mean him when I was saying enemy over and over... I didn't mean him when I said because they have problems in life... didn't mean him when I said "problems THEY create for me.... didn't mean him when I said he gets back to government.... and most definitely didn't mean him when I said "But I can still have ill wishes for enemies even if I don't type them".

C'mon guy. Man up. Say "Yes I don't like him and I wished him ill will". You said it the first time, don't get all soft and accuse other's of "distortion". It's the beauty of this system, there's a quote feature....

 

[davidmcbeth]

Almost die and not recovering are most similar and not distortions.


Again, if you cannot accept moderation, you know what to expect.

You are a guest, not a site owner. You accepted the rules/policies by posting here. Not abiding by that would seem to say something.

Moderation ... in small doses .... is OK

Me thinks, in this case & thread, that it is extreme ...

Now what if the same thing happened to Feinstein the crazy bat? Oh, we would all be praying .. some for a different outcome than others though.

Required empathy is not one the list of 10 commandments ... If the guy pulls though, I guess he's lucky...if not, unlucky.


me? I'd rather die like my grandpa ... in his sleep; not like the passengers in his car screaming like little girls.

 

[peter nap]

There was a fair amount of discussion in this thread, made by decent people. As has happened so many times in the past the trolls have rolled in. Fair enough, that's gotten to be normal but in this case it's gotten so bad I expect we've even shocked AR15.

I'm ashamed I even started the thread. I vote you lock it Grapeshot and let the boys from the Westboro Baptist Church find another grave to urinate on!

 

[Grapeshot]

Originally Posted by Primus

SNIP Please stop the alcohol consumption it's affecting your posts...

You think?
Please say it isn't so.

Personal insults.

I am sure they will be deleted as such.

Don't know if it was an insult or not. Something is contributing to unreasonable responses.

Going to lock this until day time - give people a break and a chance to rethink their words.

 

[Citizen]

Don't know if it was an insult or not. Something is contributing to unreasonable responses.

Going to lock this until day time - give people a break and a chance to rethink their words.

Yeah, good idea. Maybe somebody can explain to me why I'm supposed to pray for the recovery of an enemy who would increase the tax theft and saddle both myself and fellow Virginians with more government. Do these same posters require that I pray for the recovery of the local mugger, knowing full well that he when he is recovered he will prey again?

 

[Citizen]

There was a fair amount of discussion in this thread, made by decent people. As has happened so many times in the past the trolls have rolled in. Fair enough, that's gotten to be normal but in this case it's gotten so bad I expect we've even shocked AR15.

I'm ashamed I even started the thread. I vote you lock it Grapeshot and let the boys from the Westboro Baptist Church find another grave to urinate on!

Don't be ashamed for starting the thread. Be ashamed of the sorry illogic being slung around by those who insist on observing silly PC.

 

[davidmcbeth]

Yeah, good idea. Maybe somebody can explain to me why I'm supposed to pray for the recovery of an enemy who would increase the tax theft and saddle both myself and fellow Virginians with more government. Do these same posters require that I pray for the recovery of the local mugger, knowing full well that he when he is recovered he will prey again?

I see you slept on the matter ... and came to a logical conclusion. Kudos.

 

[Grapeshot]

I see you slept on the matter ... and came to a logical conclusion. Kudos.

He did not.

Honoring Peter Nap's request as OP of the thread, locking it - will consider a soft delete.

 

[Grapeshot]

Sen. Creigh Deeds released from hospital

Virginia State Senator Creigh Deeds was discharged from UVA Medical Center Friday morning, according to a hospital spokesperson.


The former gubernatorial-hopeful was repeatedly stabbed to the head and chest on Tuesday at his Bath County home. His son shot and killed himself, in what State Police investigators believe was an attempted murder-suicide.

http://www.nbc12.com/story/24043111/sen-creigh-deeds-released-from-hospital

 

[Grapeshot]

I was reminded that I had not finished cleaning up some remarks, including mine, that appeared insulting to a Citizen. No one on this forum deserves to be insulted personally. My apology for any part I may have played in that.

Frankly, after locking the thread, I unfortunately forgot to follow through. That has now been done.

Regarding this thread. We'll try it one more time. I'm reopening it, but expect that everyone to stick to the facts and not attack the Senator or his family with specific regard to the unfortunate circumstances. Imagine how you would feel if someone close to one were in a similar circumstance.

Stay on the high road, please.

 

[davidmcbeth]

<snicker>:dude: should have just left it locked ....

 

[77zach]

Yeah, good idea. Maybe somebody can explain to me why I'm supposed to pray for the recovery of an enemy who would increase the tax theft and saddle both myself and fellow Virginians with more government. Do these same posters require that I pray for the recovery of the local mugger, knowing full well that he when he is recovered he will prey again?

+1

You broke the conditioning, the vast majority can't or won't, hence our national situation. The unforgivable sin is "not being nice" , even if the victim was a POS. I don't know the record of this Va pol, but let's say Obama was assassinated. I'm capable of more than binary thinking. On the one hand, I could feel sorry for his family, I could feel sorry that he chose to join the predator class, I could feel sorry that he chose to be a war criminal, and a traitor. And on the other hand I could take satisfaction knowing that he got what was coming to him. I could hope that it would send a message to his successors that there are some people left who aren't playing games, and are serious about defending this nation against domestic enemies. I'm sure Obama's death would only accelerate the tyranny, but you get my point.

 

[HPmatt]

I could hope that it would send a message to his successors that there are some people left who aren't playing games, and are serious about defending this nation against domestic enemies.

Want to say I remember something about this subject on the VA state flag. Looks like if 56,000 virginians can't read, or forgot their latin studies.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

+1

You broke the conditioning, the vast majority can't or won't, hence our national situation. The unforgivable sin is "not being nice" , even if the victim was a POS. I don't know the record of this Va pol, but let's say Obama was assassinated. I'm capable of more than binary thinking. On the one hand, I could feel sorry for his family, I could feel sorry that he chose to join the predator class, I could feel sorry that he chose to be a war criminal, and a traitor. And on the other hand I could take satisfaction knowing that he got what was coming to him. I could hope that it would send a message to his successors that there are some people left who aren't playing games, and are serious about defending this nation against domestic enemies. I'm sure Obama's death would only accelerate the tyranny, but you get my point.

Agree with 77zach and Citizen in that respect; it is (currently) beyond my ability to pray for the recovery of an enemy of Freedom, though I must say Death may be an even worse alternative. Nobody chooses to be a victim, and I would hope nobody would wish for a son to attempt what the deceased did, but we don't choose to give away our Freedoms as "representatives" would make it appear. As to why Citizen was attacked for not being nice, I think it also had a bit to do with the tasteless remarks and speculation that came early in the life of this thread from one particular individual (who I felt ambivalent towards up til those remarks), which I believe set off the powder keg of breach of "conditioning".

Anyways, these are my reasons (and mine alone, as far as I know) for not being able to pray for an enemy of Freedom:

1) If such an enemy recovers, he may well return to his old ways, bolstered now with the sympathies of otherwise open-eyed individuals still uninvolved. (Case in point: Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who now uses the "I was shot, so that makes me an expert on gun violence" card that the Brady bunch uses so often)
In this case, the best I can do is say "may your will be done," but without asking for their health to go either way.

2) If such an enemy is claimed by Death, his Death will lead to his portrayal as a saint, a martyr for his work to "put an end" to _______ ("social problem"). At that point, you get the "how many more good people have to suffer/die" speech to elicit an emotional response that clouds the minds of rational-minded individuals.
In this case, I just say "please protect the Innocent who are rendered defenseless [I always stress the importance of children, as they are not yet old enough to protect themselves]." The parents who choose to become easy targets are, like in case #1, left entirely to His will; I will neither pray for their death nor their recovery.

3) If the person recovers partially, the enemies of Freedom get the best of both worlds: they have a living martyr to champion their (emotion-driven and unjust) cause, and they have an "expert" on whatever "societal problem" they chose.

So unless the enemy of Freedom sees the Light (pun intended), it is a lose-lose-BIG LOSE situation in regards to Freedom. I can sum up my feelings on the issue with a quote from a play (coincidentally, the name of that Shakespearean play is also the name of the individual of the tasteless remarks and speculation).

"To show an unfelt sorrow is an office
Which the false man does easy."
- Malcom, Act II, Scene ii (guess the Shakespearean play)

That said, I feel sorry for the loss experienced by the mother (a child's death is always a great loss for ANY real mother), the senator and the rest of the family (same reason), and of course the first responders that had to witness the scene.

@HPmatt: that phrase should follow "Molon Labe" on every sticker, flag, and sign (and tattoos, for the hardcore).

 

[Cannonball]

Agree with 77zach and Citizen in that respect; it is (currently) beyond my ability to pray for the recovery of an enemy of Freedom, though I must say Death may be an even worse alternative. Nobody chooses to be a victim, and I would hope nobody would wish for a son to attempt what the deceased did, but we don't choose to give away our Freedoms as "representatives" would make it appear. As to why Citizen was attacked for not being nice, I think it also had a bit to do with the tasteless remarks and speculation that came early in the life of this thread from one particular individual (who I felt ambivalent towards up til those remarks), which I believe set off the powder keg of breach of "conditioning".

Anyways, these are my reasons (and mine alone, as far as I know) for not being able to pray for an enemy of Freedom:

1) If such an enemy recovers, he may well return to his old ways, bolstered now with the sympathies of otherwise open-eyed individuals still uninvolved. (Case in point: Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, who now uses the "I was shot, so that makes me an expert on gun violence" card that the Brady bunch uses so often)
In this case, the best I can do is say "may your will be done," but without asking for their health to go either way.

2) If such an enemy is claimed by Death, his Death will lead to his portrayal as a saint, a martyr for his work to "put an end" to _______ ("social problem"). At that point, you get the "how many more good people have to suffer/die" speech to elicit an emotional response that clouds the minds of rational-minded individuals.
In this case, I just say "please protect the Innocent who are rendered defenseless [I always stress the importance of children, as they are not yet old enough to protect themselves]." The parents who choose to become easy targets are, like in case #1, left entirely to His will; I will neither pray for their death nor their recovery.

3) If the person recovers partially, the enemies of Freedom get the best of both worlds: they have a living martyr to champion their (emotion-driven and unjust) cause, and they have an "expert" on whatever "societal problem" they chose.

So unless the enemy of Freedom sees the Light (pun intended), it is a lose-lose-BIG LOSE situation in regards to Freedom. I can sum up my feelings on the issue with a quote from a play (coincidentally, the name of that Shakespearean play is also the name of the individual of the tasteless remarks and speculation).

"To show an unfelt sorrow is an office
Which the false man does easy."
- Malcom, Act II, Scene ii (guess the Shakespearean play)

That said, I feel sorry for the loss experienced by the mother (a child's death is always a great loss for ANY real mother), the senator and the rest of the family (same reason), and of course the first responders that had to witness the scene.

@HPmatt: that phrase should follow "Molon Labe" on every sticker, flag, and sign (and tattoos, for the hardcore).

This is a message for those who claim Christianity:

Either pray for your enemies or give it up altogether.
"I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Luke 5:32
"But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" Matthew 5:44

We are so very quick to forget how we have been changed through our faith in Christ. I know if He was able to change my heart, it is undoubtedly possible for him to change the heart of Creigh Deeds or anyone else for that matter.

We would all do well keep into focus a central truth: "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Ephesians 6:12

The underlying war of this nation is a fight between worldviews: One that identifies man as problem, and God as solution and one that identifies God as problem and man as solution.

So this entire argument really begs the question, why pray at all if you don't do it with the heart of him you pray to? Instead curse your enemies as your enemies curse you. And go do it somewhere else than here.

 

[Cannonball]

SOLA FIDE, no words, works or rites required.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide

The Five Solae of the Protestant Reformation
Sola scriptura, Sola fide, Sola gratia, Solus Christus, Soli Deo gloria

Well-addressed....

Let me redact these previous statements, as they were written in haste and over-emotion and are not the Christian viewpoint:

"Either pray for your enemies or give it up altogether. " and "... why pray at all if you don't do it with the heart of him you pray to?"

The reality is we can't pray with the heart of him we pray to, no matter how much we would like to, because we are sinful. But, the above scriptures give insight into the way we should pray, which I would like to gently bring to the attention of those who'd rather disregard the mandate.