davidmcbeth
Banned
I'll take back "incredible" but the rest stands. Put a different word.... noticeable, staggering, etc.
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or...maybe...information available over the internet or due to internet?
I'll take back "incredible" but the rest stands. Put a different word.... noticeable, staggering, etc.
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OK, do not use wiki for this type of analysis .... I have found it not useful for this purpose.
Ex..2002, school shootings just in EU
19 FEB Freising, Germany ... 2 killed
26 APR Erfurt, Germany ..... 16 killed
29 APR Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina ... 1 teacher killed
So the US is no different than anywhere else ... and killings that are not shootings are also available and just as bad really
The issue is not guns. The issue is not an explosion of violence. The issue is that these incidents are being recorded better.
Its like when we find a new species .. wow, look at that population explosion ! Last year we had zero !
What is better known and better documented is the killing of children by governments .. oddly enough, anti-gunners never want to report these numbers (they are still killed by guns too). Look up those numbers and tell me which numbers are more appalling. I'd rather lose 1000 kids over 20 years to crazy folks doing crazy things than 1,000,000 because the people could not defend themselves from their own gov'ts. The argument is not won on # of people/children killed ~ gov'ts kill more folks through cleansing, etc. Why they call it cleansing is a mystery-its dirty work.
.. but its crystal clear there is a rise in type and numbers.
No its not crystal clear to me .. back in the 50's neighborhoods would hide all kinds of crime stats from getting out...looks bad to pronounce that you have a child rapist living in the neighborhood.
...This is just straight numbers, dates and details. No spin.
This won't happen .
Cops are not going to confiscate guns. We aren't stupid. I know if I participate in something that illegal and immorally wrong I'll probably get shot or worse have to shoot a fellow citizen in defense of my life or my partners.
The number of people killed each year does not mean a great deal. In that, I mean one shooting in a small population is much more significant than a hundred shootings in a very large population. Lies...Damn Lies... Statistics. You all sound like politicians trying to make the numbers work for you.
To get a little closer to the original thread line........
So, Primus, This has already happened, remember that big rain we had down south and LEOs and Military went door to door? Precedent set.
I do believe you when you say YOU will not confiscate weapons from LACs. I do not trust your "partners" to do the same. You also seem to be stating that you would "shoot a fellow Citizen" to defend those who would, and have, gone door to door. Sad.
It seems the "gov" in Conn. is going to use "background checks" to locate those who did not declare their weapon/mags. I thought they got rid of them?
The Katrina incidents were done extra legal. The MC folks may correct me, but I think NC has a law that permitted guns to be confiscated if they were beyond the threshold of the home. I think that law got repealed or changed. MO specifically does not permit a state of emergency to infringe the lawful carry of a firearm.Back to op....
Wasn't the confiscations deemed illegal during Katrina? I don't know the exact case law but pretty sure I've seen on here guys talk about the aftermath and it was ruled that's a no go even in a state of emergency
And since you brought it up.... state of emergency stuff is completely different then passing a law (that hasn't even been challenged yet) then enforcing said law (the methods aren't determined yet). So no, there isn't a precedent set yet. Unless you think CT has massive looting going on from a massive natural disaster?
Listen its real simple about who to shoot and not shoot. If you shoot at me I shoot back. If you attempt to shoot at me I shoot first. That's pretty basic. If I'm on a traffic stop and I get shot at because some d bag read on the internet that all cops were confiscating guns, then game on. I'm not going to let him shoot me and say "oh its ok he was misinformed from the internet". Same for my fellow workers. If they are on a traffic stop and get shot at I'm coming to their aid.
This should apply to all citizens. If someone shoots at you you shoot back and defend yourself. Im a citizen too, so I will defend myself.
These "door to door" hypothetical is just that. Hypotheticals that are just as bad at fear mongering as the antis saying "oh any guy carrying a gun is crazy and they will shoot everyone call the cops!" Instead its "the cops are evil and crazy and are coming to take all our guns and oppress us!"
Both sides are completely wrong, based on little to no legitimate information, and pushed by a few to enrage the many.
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SOP with the standard 9-man SWAT teams is that if they run into gunshots they take cover and wait for backup.
However, this strategy would not work as they are not trying to arrest a criminal.
The time that THEY wait for b/u is also time for Americans to also converge on the location.
There simply are not enough LEOs that could respond...
So they would have to catch people outside their dwelling ... via traffic stops but once this activity starts it would put LEOs in danger with every traffic stop (that is not directly related to trying to get a gun owner).
And I think that nullification is the best means of forcing them to repeal all AW laws ...
The Katrina incidents were done extra legal. The MC folks may correct me, but I think NC has a law that permitted guns to be confiscated if they were beyond the threshold of the home. I think that law got repealed or changed. MO specifically does not permit a state of emergency to infringe the lawful carry of a firearm.
I suspect that the confiscations, if they occur, will not be contested by the citizen. There is too much to lose. But, they are always one in the crowd. Sadly, as has been mentioned, there will be cops that will enforce the law and confiscate unregistered guns if ordered to do so.
Back to op....
Wasn't the confiscations deemed illegal during Katrina?
And since you brought it up.... state of emergency stuff is completely different then passing a law (that hasn't even been challenged yet)
These "door to door" hypothetical is just that........
no its more guys trying to poke a bee hive and cause violence.
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^^^^^this^^^^^
The Katrina thefts were done extra illegal -- but the court (after a successful lawsuit) required folks to prove that they were the owners (as no receipts were given) via sales invoices etc. So many still have not gotten their guns back.
When it comes to my guns .. I place ZERO confidence in any gov't official or agency.
Thanks for the correction. I thought it was overturned in some fashion.
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This won't happen .
Cops are not going to confiscate guns. We aren't stupid. I know if I participate in something that illegal and immorally wrong I'll probably get shot or worse have to shoot a fellow citizen in defense of my life or my partners.
I've said this before.... and mark my words. These laws are designed to pressure them to give up the guns. IF they don't, they will used as a secondary offense or something to boost a case.
I've asked this several times of David (who's doing real work and good work for us on this) what has been sent.
So far... 1 letter has been sent by SOMEONE to SOME gun owners. There are many reason to believe this is fake.
BUT I'll give you (not individual you, the internet you) for the sake of argument that one letter has been sent. Guess what.... read it. NOTHING says a words about confiscation. It lists 4 ways. Sell it. Destroy it. Send out of state. Or turn it in. PERIOD.
Now I get it... some say "well the assumption is if you don't they will come get it."
Sorry guys... even with the letter from you saying you had those guns on 2JAN.... nothing says you STILL have guns. So.....
No probable cause for warrant....
So here's what we have...
A few guys excited about a probably fake letter that DOESNT say anything about confiscation that isn't even enough to form PC to even get a warrant to get your gun.
And guys are willing to poke the bees nest and TRY to start a civil war over this?
You would have to have illegal warrants based on FAKE letters (maybe) enforced by a lot of bad cops willing to die for stupid politicians.
Umm.. negative my friends.
And guys like that 3% dude do NOTHING but make ALL of us gun owners look very bad. He's literly giving anti all the ammunition they need to pass more dumb laws.
So essentially its a self fufilling prophecy... make up all kinds of fake threats and then say we will fight (but don't want to I promise...) over things that aren't true.. and then when more dumb laws get passes on the threats made and reactions from made up things gets guys more wound up.... etc. Etc. Your smart enough to see where it goes.
If I'm wrong.... quote this post in a year and I'll eat my words.
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It was illegal during Katrina.....it still happened. Some believed they were following the (illegal) law. Bad. Some just went along with it. Bad. Some actually knew it was wrong, but did it anyway. Very Bad.
State of emergency, illegal law, governors whim, I do not care what your excuse will be. The law HAS been challenged by the mere fact that so many Citizens have decided their Rights under the Document supersede the "law of the land". They have not applied for permission or turned the new "contraband" over to the government. What will the "law enforcement" people do now that they have this many people standing up to, what they believe is "bad law"?
This will play out soon in Conn.
Again....."they" have already done the door to door thing. Say it....katrina.