Pay scale of LEOs - does it effect performance

[papa bear]

I agree with this.

Also, absent police, people will very quickly learn to protect themselves and it won't be very long before they (and everyone else) realizes how much more effective they are at it, creating a positive feedback loop of less crime.

i agree with this. however i do want to point out that we already have to do this. the police at best are minutes away. even in condensed areas. it takes a process to get you help. you have to protect yourself if the SHTF. you are the first line of defense

 

[MAC702]

i agree with this. however i do want to point out that we already have to do this. the police at best are minutes away....

Well, yes, we know this, but at present the ignorant masses believe this is sufficient for their protection, because the cops and politicians (in many areas) have told them so.

 

[countryclubjoe]

LEOS are simply a NECESSARY EVIL.

CCJ

 

[sudden valley gunner]

LEOS are simply a NECESSARY EVIL.

CCJ

We can strike necessary.

 

[Citizen]

We can strike necessary.

Yeah. Just because we have LEOs does not mean they are the only solution or the best solution. Especially when you weigh the net negative against the net positive.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Yeah. Just because we have LEOs does not mean they are the only solution or the best solution. Especially when you weigh the net negative against the net positive.

Exactly, I posted recently a thread where a private organization have a tremendously better track record than the monopolization of force into government agents. Loved his quote about love being the basis of protection not violence.

 

[DWCook]

Obviously I'm going to just sit back and read instead of posting my opinions if someone's going to throw rocks at just an opinion of my personal belief. You responded in a way acting like I was favoring one side or another. No I am not, I merely stated my opinion as others did, if I wanted to get rude unprofessional comments I would look at a spoiled child.

This thread was speaking about pay scales and how it supposedly effects LEO's performance, we now changed it back to the usual we are better without them talk.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

Part of the trouble is we have passed laws protecting the criminal.

We don't blame people for there bad actions and try and protect them.

But there well b crime and criminals as a lot of people only care about themselves and not other.

I see many good law abiding citizen who believe every body is and don't realize there are criminals that could care less what they do, who they hurt as long as they think they can get away with it.

They are only sorry that they got caught not that they did the crime.

 

[BB62]

...We don't blame people for there bad actions and try and protect them...

It's THEIR, not "there".

 

[OC for ME]

<snip>

This thread was speaking about pay scales and how it supposedly effects LEO's performance, we now changed it back to the usual we are better without them talk.

Good observation. But, and this is where I rain on the OPs parade, the premise is false. Sorry, tried not to do this (not really) because the issue is not, or should not be, pay vs. performance but performance irrespective of pay

With tens of hundreds of LEAs and the pay scales are different. Yet, the performance of LEOs varies. You can have a 17K/yr cop in Nowhereville SC described as a liberty loving rights respecting peace officer, and have a 120K/yr cop in Los Angeles CA who is a thug. Conversely, a senior (higher paid cop) in a specific LEA should be a better cop than a low paid rookie. A performance and pay analysis should only be applied to the same LEA for the same pay scale.

Think of this way, payscales are Grade 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Evaluate performance for all G1 cops. Then G2 cops, G3 and so on.

A rookie cop could be a rights respecting peace officer and his G5 supervisor could be a flaming thug. Unfortunately the G1 rookie either morphs into a G5 thug, or not, or quits the force cuz there are too many flaming thugs for his rights respecting temperament.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Part of the trouble is we have passed laws protecting the criminal.

We don't blame people for there bad actions and try and protect them.

But there well b crime and criminals as a lot of people only care about themselves and not other.

I see many good law abiding citizen who believe every body is and don't realize there are criminals that could care less what they do, who they hurt as long as they think they can get away with it.

They are only sorry that they got caught not that they did the crime.

That pesky constitution and its restriction on government and it's agents....

Whats the old saying I'd rather a 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man be imprisoned.

 

[eye95]

Not all law that protects the guilty exists to protect the innocent and just happens to make convicting the guilty harder. Some law that protects the guilty has no legitimate claim to protecting all of us from government intrusion--it only makes convicting the guilty harder.

The former is necessary and good law. The latter is a problem. I suspect it is the latter that was being bemoaned.


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<o>

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Not all law that protects the guilty exists to protect the innocent and just happens to make convicting the guilty harder. Some law that protects the guilty has no legitimate claim to protecting all of us from government intrusion--it only makes convicting the guilty harder.

The former is necessary and good law. The latter is a problem. I suspect it is the latter that was being bemoaned.


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<o>

Not saying that doesn't exist, and doesn't surprise me, but I'd appreciate some examples of this.

 

[chieftopcop]

We should use the teaching train of thought: In order to get high quality teachers we have to pay a higher salary, there idea is in the 100K range to start....and that's for nine months work. I was going to add at a very safe environment, but that's only the case if they have a LEO present.

This is a bit tongue in cheek, but it does seem the higher paid departments do draw not only more applicants but those that seem to be more dedicated.

 

[Firearms Iinstuctor]

It's THEIR, not "there".

Dang I am glad you caught that world is a better place because you did.

 

[eye95]

We should use the teaching train of thought: In order to get high quality teachers we have to pay a higher salary, there idea is in the 100K range to start....and that's for nine months work. I was going to add at a very safe environment, but that's only the case if they have a LEO present.

This is a bit tongue in cheek, but it does seem the higher paid departments do draw not only more applicants but those that seem to be more dedicated.

I disagree. (And I was a low-paid teacher.) High pay only attracts high quality when that high pay is a result of the high quality. Giving the high pay before getting the high quality (which is union-think) just results in a bunch of overpaid losers.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

High pay attracts everybody, no matter what their level of competence. Unions are full of people who can't or won't do their job. Other employees have to pick up their slack, they get paid the same as the best employees, its almost impossible to get rid of them and their lack of performance spreads to new hires like the plague.

oh great all the usual anti-union talking points as written by the big corporations who just want to pay everyone minimum wage.

when wages are higher you attract more people which gives you room to select better people. if you payed minimum wage the only people who you will attract are either people with no skills or people who are desparate. higher pay begins to attract more skilled people who are likely to stay. look at New York City, they have the lowest police pay in the area, and the highest turnover rate. they hire people, who stay for three to 5 years and then get a much better paying police job somewhere else. which results in costing more money to train replacements. higher wages generally always mean you get better and more dedicated applicants.

 

[WalkingWolf]

oh great all the usual anti-union talking points as written by the big corporations who just want to pay everyone minimum wage.

when wages are higher you attract more people which gives you room to select better people. if you payed minimum wage the only people who you will attract are either people with no skills or people who are desparate. higher pay begins to attract more skilled people who are likely to stay. look at New York City, they have the lowest police pay in the area, and the highest turnover rate. they hire people, who stay for three to 5 years and then get a much better paying police job somewhere else. which results in costing more money to train replacements. higher wages generally always mean you get better and more dedicated applicants.

Cites please?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Cites please?

gee cite must be your middle name, well ask and ye shall recieve

Starting Pay Annually
NYPD 34,000
Nassau County Police 45,000
Suffolk County Police 42,000
Westchester County Dept of Public Safety 43,000 a year

In fact all of the agencies listed other then NYPD have pay scales that top out over 100,000 dollars a year for 5 years of service. wheras NYPD tops out at 80K

 

[MAC702]

oh great all the usual anti-union talking points as written by the big corporations who just want to pay everyone minimum wage...

Name (and cite) a big corporation that pays everyone minimum wage.

Speaking of minimum wage, what is it worth to twirl a sign at an intersection? I'll bet most of those people are being paid under the table because they are willing to work for less than minimum wage for a job like that when it is all that is available. Guess what happens when people are forced to work under the table by the government? It makes two people law-breakers even though they are helping each other in a mutually agreeable arrangement. It makes for no taxes being paid in the process and provides for no legal protection of an employee/employer relationship for workplace injuries or injustices.

Sign twirlers should form a union and collectively bargain for higher wages, more breaks, and smaller signs. Right?