Opencarry.org is a Political/Partisan group says the WI DOT

[oliverclotheshoff]

Nice. I like it. Puts the onus on them to explain why they think we're political or partisan, and then we can hit them with the court rulings saying that's not a legal reason to prevent participation.

I still have no response to my open records request beyond their email saying that they were working on it.

Is there a time frame they must meet for an ORR? Or is it one of those as they get to it type of things?

 

[MKEgal]

Is there a time frame they must meet for an ORR?
Or is it one of those as they get to it type of things?

Yes and no...

19.35 Access to records
(4) Time for compliance and procedures
(a) Each authority, upon request for any record, shall, as soon as practicable and without delay, either fill the request or notify the requester of the authority's determination to deny the request in whole or in part and the reasons therefor.
http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/19/II/35/4


Last time I did an open records request, it took about 2 months before they told me it was ready (which the court found was an unreasonable delay*),
and another couple weeks before they provided the info to my lawyer as part of discovery for the suit we filed to get them to release the information,
and they got creamed by the court for trying to require me to waive my right to sue them as a condition of releasing my records (records about me) to me**.


* The custodian is not authorized to comply with an open records request at some unspecified date in the future. Such a response constitutes a denial of the request.
WTMJ, Inc. v. Sullivan, 1996

* What constitutes a reasonable time for a response by an authority depends on the nature of the request, the staff and other resources available to the authority to process the request, the extent of the request, and other related considerations.
WIREdata, Inc. v. Village of Sussex, 2008

** An agency cannot promulgate an administrative rule that creates an exception to the open records law.
Chavala v. Bubolz, 1996


ETA: Found a whole chapter of a book for legislators which talks about open records.
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lc/publications/briefingbook/ch07_open_records.pdf

 

[oliverclotheshoff]

Thanks MKEgal

 

[Have Gun - Will Carry]

ETA: Found a whole chapter of a book for legislators which talks about open records.
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lc/publications/briefingbook/ch07_open_records.pdf

Interesting reading, I learned a thing or two. Unfortunately I'm left with a mental image of a random legislator and his/her staff behind closed doors ROTFLing over the pamphlet's contents until their sides hurt, before tossing it into the circular file...

It does have its bright spots, though. I especially like this one: "A record request may not be denied because the requester refuses to provide identification or to state the purpose of the request."

Anonymity is a good thing, and all too rare nowadays...

 

[MKEgal]

In-ter-es-ting...
Got the PDF of the WI Adopt A Highway participating groups.
Sort of.

After I went through it by eye looking for potentially objectionable groups such as unions (found 12) and other gun-related groups (found 3) I did not see OCDO.

(Nor are there any groups with any sort of blatant political affiliation. I'd like to know how many of those were turned down or dissuaded by their stated policy of refusing to allow "political or partisan" groups to participate...)

So I used the search feature for "open carry" and "carry" and found nada.

I wonder why they dropped us from the list, or what other groups they 'accidentally' left off?

Am formulating a reply.


Here's the online doc if y'all want to check through it:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...afe&zw&sig=AHIEtbRNQV3vKvz8bSpLm25jCmWrClwP8g

 

[MKEgal]

Am sending a followup open records request today.

Asking for the complete list, including OCDO,
asking for all info about why OCDO was labeled a political org (email, memo, letter, phone log),
asking for info about why their "no political groups" policy was put into place,
asking for group names & contact info for all groups denied participation in the program since 01/01/12 on the basis of appearing to be political,
and including info showing why that's illegal,
asking for name & contact info for other groups which have been told (after participating) that they are political & asked to change their sign.

Not quite so polite & fluffy this time.
Let's see what happens.

 

[rickrich]

Open Carry Will Remain as Adopt a Highway Sponsor

Received new letter yesterday from DOT...

I'll scan it later, but basically, it says the DOT will not make a determination that open carry is a political/partisan group.

They did realize, however, our sign does not conform to their policy of not allowing web addresses on signs. So the signs will be changed to OPENCARRY WISC CHAPTER

Thanks everyone for your ideas, responses, and pressure on the DOT.

Now, who wants to organize an Open Carry litter pick up ?!

 

[BB62]

Received new letter yesterday from DOT...

I'll scan it later, but basically, it says the DOT will not make a determination that open carry is a political/partisan group....

They already did - the question is using what guidelines/method??

Thanks for your efforts, btw.

 

[NoTolerance]

Received new letter yesterday from DOT...

I'll scan it later, but basically, it says the DOT will not make a determination that open carry is a political/partisan group.

They did realize, however, our sign does not conform to their policy of not allowing web addresses on signs. So the signs will be changed to OPENCARRY WISC CHAPTER

Thanks everyone for your ideas, responses, and pressure on the DOT.

Now, who wants to organize an Open Carry litter pick up ?!

Would OPENCARRYDOTORG WI CHAPTER work? That's not technically a web address...

 

[MKEgal]

Willing to be in the litter gang this time.
Glad that they've reversed their position, but I'm still wondering what started the problem.

 

[BB62]

...Glad that they've reversed their position, but I'm still wondering what started the problem.

IMHO you ought to do more than wonder - you ought to nail down what happened via records requests.

 

[MKEgal]

See post #50 - already working on it.

 

[davegran]

 

[MKEgal]

ACLU comes through

Their site said 10 weeks, it's been 6 months.
But I did get a lukewarm response, asking for more info.
I have & will send them the info they're asking for.

I also have a bunch of email exchanges within the DOT / AAH program about our sign, and in some of them they seem almost worried that they've done something wrong, will get media or legislative attention.
Well, maybe they should change their policies to conform to the law, then there won't be a problem.

And they mention a rat by the name of Craig who lied to them about this thread.

 

[protias]

And they mention a stalker by the name of Craig who lied to them about this thread.

Fixed and geee, what a surprise there...

 

[MKEgal]

If anyone knows of a group anywhere in the state which has been turned away because the DOT thought they were "political or partisan", please have them contact the ACLU in support of them taking up this case.
Having a letter to that effect would be wonderful.
https://aclu-wi.org/contact-us

 

[rickrich]

Litter Pickup Scheduling

We fended off the attack from the anti gunner who complained about opencarry.org sponsoring an Adopt a Highway section. However, now we have to pick up the litter, or they'll remove us from Adopt a Highway for not taking care of the section.

So, a litter pickup will be scheduled for an upcoming Saturday.

Our stretch of highway is located on Highway 67, north of Eagle, south of Dousman between highways C and D

 

[protias]

We fended off the attack from the anti gunner who complained about opencarry.org sponsoring an Adopt a Highway section. However, now we have to pick up the litter, or they'll remove us from Adopt a Highway for not taking care of the section.

So, a litter pickup will be scheduled for an upcoming Saturday.

Our stretch of highway is located on Highway 67, north of Eagle, south of Dousman between highways C and D

I'd like to get out there. Please post when this happens.

 

[davidmcbeth]

We fended off the attack from the anti gunner who complained about opencarry.org sponsoring an Adopt a Highway section. However, now we have to pick up the litter, or they'll remove us from Adopt a Highway for not taking care of the section.

So, a litter pickup will be scheduled for an upcoming Saturday.

Our stretch of highway is located on Highway 67, north of Eagle, south of Dousman between highways C and D

Gonna do a Kramer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bewrXPdwhYE

lol ...

 

[Running Wolf]

We fended off the attack from the anti gunner who complained about opencarry.org sponsoring an Adopt a Highway section. However, now we have to pick up the litter, or they'll remove us from Adopt a Highway for not taking care of the section.

So, a litter pickup will be scheduled for an upcoming Saturday.

Our stretch of highway is located on Highway 67, north of Eagle, south of Dousman between highways C and D

I'll be there again, schedule permitting. At this point I'm available the first and third Saturday in June.