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Obama hasn't messed witrh my guns

OC for ME

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Not to the participants.

Serbs repeatedly appeared in the media at the time appealing to people in the United States for support in the conflict. The reason, "They're Muslims!" They just didn't get the "So???" response that they invariably received.


It was answered and I answer it again: "In the Balkans in the 1990s."

You'll excuse me if I take the word of the actual participants over yours.
Your contention, without cites (not required because your contention is not a legal statement), does not convince me as to the "factualness" of your contention. I am not particularly interested in the individual experiences of any participants, their experiences are purely anecdotal evidence. I'll stick with "scholarly" writings on the subject.

I was not there so I have no first hand knowledge. Even if I were there, back then, any experiences I would have received would also be anecdotal evidence. I'm sure, to some folks, it seemed like they were being killed due to their religious (Christians v. Christians) beliefs but that is not the Yugoslav War that has been chronicled by the intelligentsia in academia.

If there were Christians slaughtering Christians simply because they are different kinds of Christians I have as yet to read about the slaughter. It seems that ethnicity now includes religious beliefs.
 

Deanimator

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I'll stick with "scholarly" writings on the subject.
I've seen "scholarly writing" which at various times purported that:
  1. The Holocaust never happened.
  2. The Japanese were "beaten" at the time of Hiroshima and were looking to SURRENDER.
  3. There was no man-made famine in the Ukraine.
  4. The Stalin purges were alternately a)justified by internal threats b)vastly exaggerated.
 

OC for ME

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I've seen "scholarly writing" which at various times purported that:
  1. The Holocaust never happened.
  2. The Japanese were "beaten" at the time of Hiroshima and were looking to SURRENDER.
  3. There was no man-made famine in the Ukraine.
  4. The Stalin purges were alternately a)justified by internal threats b)vastly exaggerated.
I provided a link to a scholarly writing, as a courtesy, to support my claim. It is your prerogative to either accept or reject.
 

OC for ME

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My statement was one of historical reference, and how we see history or human conduct repeating itself. Christians killed Christians in countless European wars. Muslims have killed Muslims in Middle eastern conflicts. I am sure in Asia many of the wars there historically were people killing others of the same religious background. Of course this statement doesn't take into consideration the countless sects in said religions.
Other than the slaughter of untold number of Christians because they were not the right Christian, or more likely they were not Christian enough, I know of no war where the only (primary) reason the war was fought was due to Christians 'A' wanting to eradicate Christians 'B'. Where as Muslims have that Sunni/Shiite thing. If there is a Sunni/Shiite equivalent in all of Christendom's history please point me to it.

I reject, obviously, that Christians have a Sunni/Shiite equivalent these past ~2000 years.
 

WalkingWolf

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Other than the slaughter of untold number of Christians because they were not the right Christian, or more likely they were not Christian enough, I know of no war where the only (primary) reason the war was fought was due to Christians 'A' wanting to eradicate Christians 'B'. Where as Muslims have that Sunni/Shiite thing. If there is a Sunni/Shiite equivalent in all of Christendom's history please point me to it.

I reject, obviously, that Christians have a Sunni/Shiite equivalent these past ~2000 years.

Northern Ireland?
 

Shoobee

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I think there is an excellent chance that Romney will carry Ohio.

Regardless of how you feel about Romney, Obama has done quite literally NOTHING to merit reelection.

His horrific mismanagement of the economy is reason enough for him to slink off into obscure ignominy.

Well I suppose we will all find out in another week from now who will win Ohio. One way or the other, the one good thing is that all the millions of dollars spent on campaign ads will finally end everywhere. Here in Calif all you hear now are ads about the ballot propositions. Cali is not a swing state so neither candidate is wasting any money here. All the campaign ad money for the presidency is going to Ohio, Pa, Va, and the other swing states.

Ohio is close enough in the polling that I wish I could take your bet. Nobody really knows though.

I do find it odd that there is so much hate for an experienced incumbent president that such a large portion of the population seems to be willing to go with a completely new inexperienced challenger who has flipped on virtually all his former positions. I would not have minded the challenger if he had stuck to his original guns and stayed consistent. His original positions were reasonable and not really bad. But now that his puppet masters want him to completely overhaul his previous positions, he has gladly accomodated them. How can anyone honestly trust or elect a person like that?

Fixing the economy is another big lie. Neither candidate is going to be able to fix the economy. It will need to fix itself over time as demand for fundamental goods and services again accumulate. So why believe a lie by either candidate that he would be the best to fix it? In the challenger's case, he has no federal experience, and his only claim to fame is that he will fix the economy, which is itself a lie. How can anyone honestly vote for a person like that?

Anyway the population is obviously gullible and easily deceived. In about another week we will see how much, whether 49%, or 50%, or 51%.

Whichever one wins, it changes nothing. The economy will still need time, years or decades, to recover from a huge real estate bubble that crashed on Wall Street and on Main Street. And anyone who thought they were going to get rich by borrowing more mortgage money than they could ever repay in their lives is going to stay poor. And therefore walk-away short sales and foreclosures will continue for years and decades.

Gun rights won't change much either. Personally I hope the increasing trend of more people carrying concealed and openly with keep growing. But as Scalia has pointed out, that will continue to be a state issue not federal.

Whether magazine fed gas operated semi auto rifles and uzi's continue to be available, we don't know. There is no party with control of the White House, the Congress, AND the Senate with 60 seats. And even if one evolved with all that control, then the present US Supreme Court seems to be inclined to interpret 2A rather "liberally" (that's what Liberal really means) and therefore these guns may very well survive a USSC decision with the court as presently constituted.

I know Romney and Obama both hate these high capacity fast shooting guns. Therefore I don't trust either one of them on gun issues. But I would rather re-elect the incumbent for another 4 years who has so far done nothing about guns, than put in a new challenger who might pull off 8 more years in the White House.

I would trust Chris Christie or Jeb Bush with our gun rights much more than Romney or Obama. And a vote for Romney is a vote against Christie or Bush. It sounds like Chrisite has finally found that out, from the way he has been talking about the big storm and the FEMA effort to recover from it.

We'll all see what happens in another week or so.
 
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Shoobee

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He's basically been Toby-Slapped, then kicked to the curb in favor of discussion of substantive matters...

If you guys care so much about the war against muslim extremist terrorism, then it was Obama's personal 10x increase in the drone strikes that has killed most of the Al Qaeda leadership and the Taliban. That's why they hate our drones in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

I do not know who the lady in the CIA is who for the past 5 years tracked down Bin Laden. But she does deserve the credit for that. I would love to read her own book about how she did it, and what she thought all along the way, up until the time she finally stared into Bin Laden's dead face on the tarmac at Bagram. A happy ending.

Not sure if Romney would have been able to give the order to kill Bin Laden. Romney is way too religious to drink a beer or glass of champaign that I have to doubt he would be able to make a kill order as well. Once again, his federal inexperience is a major issue, that lots of gullible Republicans seem to be ignoring.
 

Shoobee

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PistolPackingMomma

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Not sure if Romney would have been able to give the order to kill Bin Laden. Romney is way too religious to drink a beer or glass of champaign that I have to doubt he would be able to make a kill order as well. Once again, his federal inexperience is a major issue, that lots of gullible Republicans seem to be ignoring.

Right, because Obama had sooo much experience going in. :rolleyes: Good thing that wasn't a major issue, huh?

Oh well, collateral damage.

Your concern is touching, truly.
 

WalkingWolf

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Oh well, collateral damage. These gihadists purposely keep civilians, women, and kids around them as a "protection" from drone strikes, because they know The West is troubled by the collateral damage required to kill the jihadists.

I seem to remember one of Obooboo's 2008 election accusations was of war crimes and injustices by Bush when he was president. So it is not ok if it is a republican, and it is ok if it is a democrat? Gotcha!
 

Shoobee

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Right, because Obama had sooo much experience going in. :rolleyes: Good thing that wasn't a major issue, huh?

Your concern is touching, truly.

Babe, it makes no sense to replace a perfectly good and now well trained and experienced US president with an old guy from Massachusetts who has only been governor.

Your logic failure harkens back to McCain vs Obama. That was long ago.

In any NCAA debate it is only necessary to point out your logic failure. You lose.
 

3fgburner

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Other than the slaughter of untold number of Christians because they were not the right Christian, or more likely they were not Christian enough, I know of no war where the only (primary) reason the war was fought was due to Christians 'A' wanting to eradicate Christians 'B'. Where as Muslims have that Sunni/Shiite thing. If there is a Sunni/Shiite equivalent in all of Christendom's history please point me to it.

I reject, obviously, that Christians have a Sunni/Shiite equivalent these past ~2000 years.

Thirty Years' War. You think Muslims get het up over dissing the Koran? The Catholics and Protestants were chopping up each others' hymnals for cartridge papers.
 

Shoobee

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I seem to remember one of Obooboo's 2008 election accusations was of war crimes and injustices by Bush when he was president. So it is not ok if it is a republican, and it is ok if it is a democrat? Gotcha!

You're living in the past too, WWolf.

You actually seem like a really bright guy. It is too bad for the nation that the Repubs have you on their lease.
 

Shoobee

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Thirty Years' War. You think Muslims get het up over dissing the Koran? The Catholics and Protestants were chopping up each others' hymnals for cartridge papers.

Talk about living in the way distant past.

If you want to hate God and religion fine. But stop making excuses.

The current jihad is between muslims and the rest of the world. Wake up.
 

OC for ME

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Thirty Years' War. You think Muslims get het up over dissing the Koran? The Catholics and Protestants were chopping up each others' hymnals for cartridge papers.
Touché'Though, a careful study of the Thirty Years War will reveal that the Catholic vs. "protestant" (Calvinism really) angle is misleading. The Thirty Years War was not really about faith, or even religion (denomination), it was about power ---> money & power to be exact. Then again what wars are ever fought over principles.Well done and +1 to you Sir.
 

MAC702

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...Romney is way too religious to drink a beer or glass of champaign that I have to doubt he would be able to make a kill order as well...

I'm no Romney fan, but I know a lot of Mormons. I don't think this alone would be an issue.

And like I said, I've known a lot of Mormons. I wouldn't bet against the beer and champagne either.

There's a reason you always take TWO Mormons with you when you go camping.
 
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MAC702

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OK, when was the last report of Christians slaughtering Christians. I've must have missed that one on Drudge.

The Colombian Civil War and Mexico's war on drug cartels are listed as current wars, and involve mostly (if not all) confirmed Catholics on all sides.

Granted, these are not daily high-intensity conflicts, but the slaughter is there (1/4 million Colombians since the war started). I've personally lived in both of those countries.
 
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