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Obama hasn't messed witrh my guns

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I have no problem with consensual polygamy AT ALL.

While I support gay marriage, I find gays who cast aspersions on polygamy in order to make gay marriage seem "normal", dispicably hypocritical.

+1 consenting adults are just that consenting adults.

It's arbitrary... as ultimately are all laws.

Why 25mph on a street and not 26mph?

Again +1 this aptly describes the sticky situation with abortion and why I can't be against it in the early stage of pregnancy. I don't believe it's a life at conception it's just a combination of cells......where that arbitrary line crosses into life I just don't know.
 

twoskinsonemanns

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Apr 12, 2012
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2,326
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WV
I don't really care what his position is............(snipped).............. He had better be lying.

Careful Citizen. When two people are arguing about which one gets to be in the front of the line as they plunge over the cliff, they will BOTH turn on the man who tries to warn them about the cliff ahead...
 

osmanobma

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
52
Location
Missouri
I have no problem with consensual polygamy AT ALL.

While I support gay marriage, I find gays who cast aspersions on polygamy in order to make gay marriage seem "normal", dispicably hypocritical.

at least we can agree on one thing. if you are for one type of marriage, you have to be for all consensual marriage, if you want to have any credibility i your argument.

note, i want the government to get out of the marriage business.
 

osmanobma

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2012
Messages
52
Location
Missouri
It's arbitrary... as ultimately are all laws.

Why 25mph on a street and not 26mph?

because we are talking about the termination of life, not the speed of your car. this is a very silly and petty argument meant for deflection. but it has absolutely nothing to do with what was said.
the speed limit is set, by people . Only the driver decides if he goes over that set limit. go ver the speed limit doesnt magic make you go into this vortex in space, nothing special happens, your car is still moving. but you are suggesting that up till day 91 the baby is sub-human, but on day 92, it has earned the right to live.
the baby get no choice. your arbitrary cut is no different than if i said, its not a human until age 3.
we are talking human life here, not cars
 
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homerfire232

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Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Messages
17
Location
Upstate, New York, USA
Back on track with the original post, Obama said in plain english at the last debate, he would like to see the in-effective "assault weapons" ban be reinstated. This is the first time he has publicly stated anything anti second amendment since becoming the prez. Also, the next four years could very well see two new supreme court justices. And remember the DC vs Heller case only passed 5-4, a slim margin, stating that the 2nd amendment IS an individual right. If Obama is given 4 more years he can do what he wants with no regard for any one group as he will not be in the position to again. His past has shown he is very anti-gun, just cause he has done nothing the first 4 years, doesn't mean we are safe his last 4.
 

Gil223

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Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
Location
Weber County Utah
I don't really care what his position is; look at his record. Also, you realize you just said his position was such-and-such and then said he had to be a liar?
I didn't say that Romney specifically is a liar, what I said was that, "lying, pandering" and "flip-flopping", are job requirements for politicians. That is an inclusive statement about the nature of the political beast, not any individual politician. Those few who don't have those traits, do not arrive in Washington, D.C.
By war-mongering, I am referring to his tough stance on Iran.
Romney, as are any and all "candidates" for office, is in the "talk is cheap" stage. Beyond that, somebody needs to take "a tough stance on Iran". Iran's nuclear saber-rattling is a greater threat to the middle-east than any military action currently underway in the area.

Regarding his governance, do you think the government coerces people to pay taxes in any other way than the threat of guns pointed in their faces? Nevermind that if you stand firm and actually defend yourself against their depredations, they will kill you in your living room.
Apparently, I missed the news reports of the referenced Romney-directed tax murders. Cite?

Regarding reducing the size of government, bullhockey. I'll believe it when I see it. His whole game at Bain Capital was taking advantage of crony capitalism (alliance between government and business). He fully understands the relationship between government and big business already. He's not going to change that. No with his record, in and out of government.
Again, Romney is in the "talk is cheap" stage of the election. He can DO nothing at this point other than peddle his ideas. Is he being truthful? He's being as truthful as any politician. We have a natural tendency to vote for the liar whose lies we find most in line with our own philosophies and desires.
Oh, and I forgot to mention his ads saying China was cheating (currency manipulation). Boy, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.* He is not currently a currency manipulator, but he is certainly a part of that system and has made no such accusation against the US despite it being very well deserved. Nor has he said he will end the currency manipulation by the United States (fedgov and Fed).*
"That system", to which you refer, is the American political system. Romney didn't invent it, and yes, he is certainly - and necessarily - "a part of that system". The Chinese don't have an official vote in this election, and - unlike Obama - Romney does not see it as his responsibility to apologize for America's existence or practices. One does not successfully engage in international negotiations from a position of weakness.

Don't underestimate the significance of our debt problem with China. In Sept or so, I think it was Reuters who reported that a couple Chinese generals were recommending economic war over Taiwan. The Chinese can wreck our economy in just a few weeks by dumping their US Treasury bonds on the world's bond markets. How does that work? Just like this. Our government has to spend, and spend, and spend. In order to do it without taxing us into poverty it has to borrow, borrow, borrow. Well, if the world bond markets are flooded with US Treasury bonds, then the US government has that much more trouble selling its next issue of bonds (borrowning). Also, as the supply of bonds goes up on the market, the value of the bonds goes down. Here is how that works. Lets say a $100 bond usually sells for $93, (the other $7 being the 7% interest on the bond.) But, as bonds flood the market, the value of bonds maybe goes down to $85. Here is the other whammy. If the bonds go down in price, it means the Treasury has to sell even more of them to get the money it wants (but still has to pay the face value at maturity to redeemers.) So, it gets harder to sell bonds, and you have to sell more of them to raise the same amount of money. And, it has to pay off that higher interest at maturity to redeemers.
Yep - that's how it works... except that our government doesn't have to "spend, and spend and spend" like drunken sailors - the Congress chooses to spend money we don't have, and there's no sign of that changing, regardless of the outcome of this election. Why is there no public outcry - with hundreds of thousands of people descending upon Washington - demanding that Congress get control of itself?

I am scared to death of an economic war of this nature with China. No, no, no, no. Anybody who would blunder us into such a war, or deliberately provoke one, is insane with a capital i. Thus, when I saw the anti-China commentary in Romney's ads, I sat bolt upright, my hair standing on end. WTF! is he talking about!?! He had better be lying.
Government Motors has more than 50% of it's manufacturing facilities in China. We MUST DEMAND that our government rein in it's spending, and get our deficit(s) under control! U.S. goods and services trade with China totaled $539 billion in 2011. Exports totaled $129 billion; Imports totaled $411 billion, for a deficit of 3.14:1. Put into dollars, that's a deficit of $282B in China's favor. Whoever in the USTR's Office of China Affairs, is responsible for managing the horrific formulation and implementation of U.S. trade policy for China, Hong Kong, Macao, Taiwan and Mongolia, should be FIRED! Our National Debt increases at the rate of approximately $162,500,000 per hour, 24 hours per day! That's $2,708,333.33 per minute or, $45,138.89 per second!
The Obama administration has increased our National Debt by almost $6T. We (as a nation) are in a money hole so deep, it will take several generations to recover - IF even then.

Now... isn't all of this a bit off the thread TOPIC? Pax...
 

Shoobee

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
599
Location
CCCP (Calif)
Back on track with the original post, Obama said in plain english at the last debate, he would like to see the in-effective "assault weapons" ban be reinstated. This is the first time he has publicly stated anything anti second amendment since becoming the prez. Also, the next four years could very well see two new supreme court justices. And remember the DC vs Heller case only passed 5-4, a slim margin, stating that the 2nd amendment IS an individual right. If Obama is given 4 more years he can do what he wants with no regard for any one group as he will not be in the position to again. His past has shown he is very anti-gun, just cause he has done nothing the first 4 years, doesn't mean we are safe his last 4.

The race is close right now, with less than a week until the election.

By saying that he supports an assault weapons ban to get AK-47's off the street, he gleans popularity from that 60% of the population who do NOT own a firearm and who think AK-47's are rediculous, although most of them do not know what an AR-15 is, nor do they have any idea what the definition of assault weapons includes.

Romney has said he feels the same way. There is no difference in the two candidates on this issue, therefore there is no way to know if there would be any difference on their nominating USSC appointments. It cancels itself out on both sides.

Although an assault weapons ban is popular with 60% of the population, it seems unlikely that the RNC would try getting one put in place again. Last time the Clintons did this it lost the US House to the RNC and it spawned Newt Gingrich.

But yes he said it. But so what? It does not make a difference between the two candidates.

If anything, saying it just make Pres Obama more popular.

He has recently been endorsed by Mayor Bloomberg, and de facto Gov Christie has supported him as well, so things are looking really good, although NYC, NY or NJ are not swing states at all.

The swing state that everything depends on is Ohio. The other swing states that could hold a surprise are Florida, Va, and Pa.

Everyone around the world is watching this race.
 

Shoobee

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
599
Location
CCCP (Calif)
because we are talking about the termination of life, not the speed of your car. this is a very silly and petty argument meant for deflection. but it has absolutely nothing to do with what was said.
the speed limit is set, by people . Only the driver decides if he goes over that set limit. go ver the speed limit doesnt magic make you go into this vortex in space, nothing special happens, your car is still moving. but you are suggesting that up till day 91 the baby is sub-human, but on day 92, it has earned the right to live.
the baby get no choice. your arbitrary cut is no different than if i said, its not a human until age 3.
we are talking human life here, not cars

Hey, the babes want to be able to get fast safe abortions.

It's a babe thing.

Proportionately, married women who go to church aren't as hung up abortion rights as single ladies who work at jobs.

At any given time, single ladies who work at jobs comprises up to 20% or more of the whole population. That is more than all the Latino Americans and all the African Americans combined. A realy piece of the pie chart.

Now is not a good time to press this hot button issue, especially if in Romney's case he actually does believe in allowing women choice and access to fast and safe abortions, but the RNC has made him flip flop on this as well.

The best time to debate right to life and constitutional status of fetuses (feti) is AFTER and election not DURING it.

But one way that the RNC deflects the attention of their own poor folk (their middle class koolaid drinkers) off tax cuts for the rich is to divert it onto abortion rights.

The truth of the matter is that the Constitution is silent about abortion rights. The Founding Freemasons did not even let women into their meetings let alone talk about them. Thus it is even more abundantly clear that they did not write about anything female-related, not even females voting, that did not come until about 100 years later.

Absent any language about abortion rights in the Constitution, the states are free to make any rules or laws about it that they want. Thus the koolaid drinkers in Utah can outlaw it, while the party girls and boys in California can allow it, and then everybody is happy. But it would take a Constitutional amendment to overturn Roe v. Wade and allow the states to do as they please. And an election is not a good time to bring it up.

The right time to bring up things is when the other party has screwed up, and lost the Senate, the US House, AND the White House, sort of like the Repubs did in 2008. Then your party briefly can pass whatever is most important to them, like Obama-care.

:D
 
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Shoobee

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Apr 16, 2012
Messages
599
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CCCP (Calif)
+1 consenting adults are just that consenting adults.

Again +1 this aptly describes the sticky situation with abortion and why I can't be against it in the early stage of pregnancy. I don't believe it's a life at conception it's just a combination of cells......where that arbitrary line crosses into life I just don't know.

Deanimator's posts are indeed thoroughly thought through and often quite brilliant.

And obviously mixing religion with politics, unless you live in Utah or somewhere in the Deep South, is never a good idea.

Most people are in plain ignorance of the 1st Amendment, or else have some born-again interpretation of it.

The Founding Freemasons of the 1700s were religiously tolerant, in their meetings and their memberships, and therefore all they were doing in the 1st Amendment was trying to assure that religion stays out of government. This has become critical in the USA, never any less so now than ever before.

Anti-abortion and anti-gay are religious views and do not belong in government or in our laws.

We need tolerance in our government and in our laws.

Although I personally believe in making 17 or 18 year old Susie go through her pregnancy and then give up the child if she cant afford to raise it, or although I personally believe aberrant lifestlyes like GLBT living belongs in the closet, those are personal views and they should not become a part of government.
 
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Deanimator

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Sep 21, 2007
Messages
2,083
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Rocky River, OH, U.S.A.
because we are talking about the termination of life, not the speed of your car. this is a very silly and petty argument meant for deflection. but it has absolutely nothing to do with what was said.
It has everything to do with what was said.

As a general rule, I oppose abortions where the fetus would survive outside of the mother. Just another place where I differ with the SOTUS (Sociopath of the United States).

You asked why X (days or months, I forget which) and not Y. That's PURELY arbitrary, just like a speed limit.
 

OldCurlyWolf

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Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
Deanimator's posts are indeed thoroughly thought through and often quite brilliant.

And obviously mixing religion with politics, unless you live in Utah or somewhere in the Deep South, is never a good idea.

Most people are in plain ignorance of the 1st Amendment, or else have some born-again interpretation of it.

The Founding Freemasons of the 1700s were religiously tolerant, in their meetings and their memberships, and therefore all they were doing in the 1st Amendment was trying to assure that religion stays out of government. This has become critical in the USA, never any less so now than ever before.

Anti-abortion and anti-gay(Homosexual, Use the correct word)are religious views and do not belong in government or in our laws.

We need tolerance in our government and in our laws.

Although I personally believe in making 17 or 18 year old Susie go through her pregnancy and then give up the child if she cant afford to raise it, or although I personally believe aberrant lifestlyes like GLBT(the correct letters should be "HLBT") living belongs in the closet, those are personal views and they should not become a part of government.

Actually you have it reversed. The object was to keep Government out of the business of Religion. It has been perverted in the last 60+/- years to the current fouled up situation.
The second objective of the 1st Amendment is a censorship free press(Media) and the right of any citizen to be able to state their own opinion/belief without fear of reprisal from the government.
 
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Shoobee

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Apr 16, 2012
Messages
599
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CCCP (Calif)
Actually you have it reversed. The object was to keep Government out of the business of Religion. It has been perverted in the last 60+/- years to the current fouled up situation.
The second objective of the 1st Amendment is a censorship free press(Media) and the right of any citizen to be able to state their own opinion/belief without fear of reprisal from the government.

Like I said, born-again misguided viewpoints on the separation of church and state.
 

eye95

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I have to take exception to the first and last adverbs you use to describe Romney. According to all I have seen and heard, Romney's position is for reducing the size of government, and the "war-mongering" claim is unsubstantiated. As for his "governance", what kind of drugs are you taking? Also, the "lying, pandering" and "flip-flopping", are job requirements for politicians. How do you think Obama got elected... by being honest and forthright? :lol: Pax...

Ya gotta understand, Romney isn't perfectly paulian, therefore he is a big-government war-monger!


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WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina
Like I said, born-again misguided viewpoints on the separation of church and state.

I can't seem to understand how any educated citizen would not know the bill of rights was not in the constitution to protect government. They are there to protect the people, the first amendment was put in place to protect people, and their right to religion of their own choosing.

NOT to eliminate religion as the USSR attempted, we are not the USSR YET!
 

Gil223

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Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
Location
Weber County Utah
By saying that he supports an assault weapons ban to get AK-47's off the street, he gleans popularity from that 60% of the population who do NOT own a firearm...
There's an old saying about numbers: "Figures can lie, and liars can figure." And your figures are, once again, WRONG. Here's one from Oct 2011 -
A new Gallup poll of self-reported gun ownership shows that 47% of American adults have a firearm somewhere in their household.
"New" as of 12 months ago - I couldn't find anything newer than that. I believe that by now one can safely assume the difference is negligible (probably about 50-50). So, even a year ago your 60% was only 53%. The other applicable saying about statistics is, "Over 85% of all statistics are made up on the spot."
Another FAIL for you.
 

Gil223

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Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
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Location
Weber County Utah
Deanimator's posts are indeed thoroughly thought through and often quite brilliant.

And obviously mixing religion with politics, unless you live in Utah or somewhere in the Deep South, is never a good idea.

Most people are in plain ignorance of the 1st Amendment, or else have some born-again interpretation of it.

The Founding Freemasons of the 1700s were religiously tolerant, in their meetings and their memberships, and therefore all they were doing in the 1st Amendment was trying to assure that religion stays out of government. This has become critical in the USA, never any less so now than ever before.

Anti-abortion and anti-gay are religious views and do not belong in government or in our laws.

We need tolerance in our government and in our laws.

Although I personally believe in making 17 or 18 year old Susie go through her pregnancy and then give up the child if she cant afford to raise it, or although I personally believe aberrant lifestlyes like GLBT living belongs in the closet, those are personal views and they should not become a part of government.

Old Curly Wolf was right on target. You don't have a clue about the Constitution! It's obvious because you apparently think that:
1. The First Amendment was written to protect the government from church influence - which is ass-backwards - and
2. You also obviously think that "the separation of church and state" is codified somewhere... but, it isn't mentioned anywhere in the U.S. Constitution. The general philosophy of the "separation clause" was taken from a letter by Thomas Jefferson (written in 1802) to the Danbury Baptist Church, to wit:
Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.
The "Establishment and Separation Clause" in Amendment I has been previously interpreted by the SCOTUS thusly:
The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another. The first approach is called the "separation" or "no aid" interpretation, while the second approach is called the "non-preferential" or "accommodation" interpretation. The accommodation interpretation prohibits Congress from preferring one religion over another, but does not prohibit the government's entry into religious domain to make accommodations in order to achieve the purposes of the Free Exercise Clause.
You really should stop trying to BS your way through this forum... we have emoticons available that are smarter than you. :lol:
 

eye95

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I can't seem to understand how any educated citizen would not know the bill of rights was not in the constitution to protect government. They are there to protect the people, the first amendment was put in place to protect people, and their right to religion of their own choosing.

NOT to eliminate religion as the USSR attempted, we are not the USSR YET!

I would take that concept one step further and say that the BOR exists to limit the federal government. It is through that restriction that the people are supposed to be able to maintain the freedom they are already supposed to naturally have.


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Gil223

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Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
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Weber County Utah
I would take that concept one step further and say that the BOR exists to limit the federal government. It is through that restriction that the people are supposed to be able to maintain the freedom they are already supposed to naturally have.


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Absolutely! +1 :) Pax...
 
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