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Need clarification on Texas open carry rules

AZkopper

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
675
Location
Prescott, Arizona, USA
Has the governor actually signed the bill yet? I can't find anything on line about him actually signing it.

Congratulations Texas on your large victory in even getting licensed OC. The normalization of seeing OC will aid in the eventual push towards Constitutional Carry.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
What in the hell are you talking about!? We ARE getting our rights back. Previously we could not carry concealed. Now we can! Previously we could not carry openly. Soon we shall! Do us a favor and stay where you are. Go visit Washington DC instead.

Next time, please stop at the "What the hell are you talking about?" and someone will explain it, as they did.

Please understand the difference between a right and a licensed privilege. I underlined the key words to help. I thought I was polite about it, too.

Neither Texas nor Nevada has the right to carry concealed. We both can be licensed to do so, however. Open carry is a right in most states. It is only just now becoming a licensed privilege in Texas. And we applaude this progress. But accept the correction that it is not a "right" yet.

Interestingly enough, in the past 150 years, Washington DC has had more days of "constitutional carry" rights than Texas.
 
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MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
His point is that since the law still requires a license to carry openly or concealed, it is still a privilege rather than a right. Like driving.
Some folks are so hung up on the vernacular that they overlook the net effect for those of us who have wanted this change. It is a small measure, effecting only 3% of the population (those currently holding a CHL.) They are "97% empty" guys, not "3% full" folks.

It is quite possible to make sure someone understands the vernacular, while praising the progress at the same time. I apparently failed in my attempt to do so.

I have many friends in Texas who would carry sidearms. They leave them in the vehicles instead because they don't wish to deal with the expense and hassles of the government permission slip. How sad. How unamerican. How much better if they had the right to bear arms.

Texas will get there, eventually, and by constant reminders of the correct vernacular, everyone will remember how still important it really is.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,431
Location
northern wis
We had one "constitutional" carry states for decades we a already added one more this year and are looking at adding two. I believe that would make 7.

The Texas law is just another stepping stone perfect no another step yes.

The we want it all now does not work, chipping away has worked and is working.

Yes it is slow and not perfect.

A win is a win.
 
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stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
It's not "vernacular". Perhaps those of you living under tyranny forget, but there is a world of difference between carrying as a free man on one's own prerogative, and between being considered a criminal if one does not first beg permission from the beneficent state.

Or do you imagine that only 3% of Texans own guns? The fact remains that every Texan with a firearm but no permit is being denied the right to engage in behavior he has every right and ability to engage in. The fact remains that thousands of Texans experience a "chilling effect" on their willingness to exercise their fundamental rights, either out of poverty, the ignorant-but-all-too-common assumption that they will be denied a permit, or their unwillingness to place yet one more aspect of their life under government purview.

I'm glad for the progress y'all are making, but rights are far too important a concept to water down in the name of self-congratulation over a half-victory. And yet, that is exactly what I see folks doing.

No sir, I don't believe that's what people are doing. I'm under no illusions about what was or wasn't accomplished. I don't believe others are, either. However, it's insulting and inflammatory for someone to come here and call our accomplishment "nothing" and make other down-putting comments.

Furthermore, while I agree that when a license is required it can't really be accurately described as restoration of liberty/right, if we wanted to start drawing lines it wouldn't even be quite that simple as whether or not a license is required.

Currently LGOC is unlicensed in Texas, but many were, in essence, denied that right through fear of repercussions created by police making threats of arrest, etc, even though it is plainly legal and no license is required. In that case, it might be said we weren't in liberty even though the state didn't demand we acquire a license prior to engaging in the activity. In another recent case, officers improperly confronted OC activists and then the police in a statement on the confrontation they created made a comment about how they weren't informed of the walk or the group's affiliations beforehand. Another encroachment on liberty, even though a license isn't required, as the police implied that unless they're notified beforehand the person engaged in the activity might be subject to harassment from officers.

Point is, if we really wanted to start talking about what constitutes restoration of the right, I don't think it is so cut and dry as whether or not the state requires a license. They have many other methods of encroachment, and I suspect we could find cases of those other methods being put to use in plenty of other states that have unlicensed carry.

So, it's one thing to casually point out the difference between a licensed and unlicensed victory. It's another thing, and a thing worth being rebuked for, to try and urinate on other's victories, call them nothing, and otherwise try to put down those making progress in a state that's seen none in a very long time. ETA I had no problems, whatsoever, with your post. I'm just trying to explain why someone might have responded to your post as they did, after having other's impolite posts in this thread.
 
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stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Has the governor actually signed the bill yet? I can't find anything on line about him actually signing it.

Congratulations Texas on your large victory in even getting licensed OC. The normalization of seeing OC will aid in the eventual push towards Constitutional Carry.

He hasn't signed it yet. As far as I know he's planning to, maybe on the last possible day. If he didn't sign the bill, it would still become law.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
An expansion of privilege, however useful, valuable, or desirable, is never the same thing as an expansion of right.

I can see the point being made here. While it's no doubt that Texas has made a step in the right direction, it seems unlikely that many further steps will be made so long as folks congratulate themselves on securing their "rights" when they have done anything but.

As far as I can tell, the organizations primarily responsible for the pursuit of open carry are not satisfied with licensed OC, and should be expected to continue working toward unlicensed OC.

My fears have been recorded here long ago, that if licensed OC was to be acquired, many would say "good enough" and walk away from the fight toward ending the prohibition the right way. I'm not so worried about that now, though.

There are plenty that are dissatisfied with licensed OC, even those that still refuse to acquire a license on principle. And as we begin the approach toward the next session, all of these organizations that knew nothing of the political process now have their feet wet, which is an advantage, I'd say.
 

nonameisgood

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
1,008
Location
Big D
Without a signature after 10 days it becomes law. That'd be June 11 or 12.
I'm guessing he is busy with the line-item veto of the budget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

qednick

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
499
Location
Bandera, TX
...snip...

My fears have been recorded here long ago, that if licensed OC was to be acquired, many would say "good enough" and walk away from the fight toward ending the prohibition the right way. I'm not so worried about that now, though.

...snip...

I'll never give up fighting until we have unlicensed OC and CC. I see this victory (though not perfect) as a step in the right in the right direction. Even with unlicensed OC/CC I would still voluntarily keep my license for use in other states and for the convenience of not having a BG check when making firearms purchases. I believe many others would too for those same reasons...which is why I don't think the state should be so worried about loss of income.

On another note, I see this victory as important because it will help "normalize" the sight of firearms being carried...particularly in rural areas and in towns like Bandera, TX, where I live. The more "normalized" we can make it, the more chance we have of pushing through unlicensed carry in two years once the naysayers see that we're not all going around shooting each other in the streets.
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
Without a signature after 10 days it becomes law. That'd be June 11 or 12.
I'm guessing he is busy with the line-item veto of the budget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I want to say I heard he was planning to sign it on the 11th. I guess that'd make sense based on the 10 day time window, then, if he was going to wait till the last minute.
 

bushwacker

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
203
Location
pottsboro,texas
not a reply, just putting these thoughts out

ok folks its time to stop all the arguing over a done deal issue and now time to start coming up with strategy and solution with what is now at hand, I would like to start off by saying acknowledging long gun open carry was very key in getting this step taken , now is time for all gun organizations to encourage those without permits to carry the black powder for normalization of handgun view as well as carrying of the long gun with them, if we can get even more long gun carry then more attention will be drawn to why it is that they are still doing it now that we have open carry......because those who didn't go with the rental program are not allowed, .... we have accomplished the awareness of how ridiculous it is that we can carry long guns and can't carry hand guns, now we need to bring out the fact on how wrong it is to deny a persons right to carry just because they don't want or cant afford the rental card, MUCH MORE LONG GUN CARRY NEEDS TO BE DONE BY THOSE THAT DON'T HAVE ZEE PAPERS (card) the statement is this discriminates against the rest of us ,like the poor. and if you do have a license ,still carry a long gun as to this is for the less fortunate and in memory of 2A fairness, why hell they have a ribbon for everything else, then why don't we start a black ribbon ( if you want-even put a little pink gun on it for those moms against guns groups , cant forget them) to commemorate/promote 2A fairness even help anchor the awareness by starting a day and annual event on the date of the passing of hb910 or better yet date the gov signs it (if he does) and call it 2A awareness day ...my last thought ...the money that I spend on my out of state permit ( of which I encourage everyone to start doing) could better go on my property taxes in texas, gun/ammo purchases, or other aspects of local necessary spending. so people what other positive steps or improvements can be made...the think tank is open..go
 
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qednick

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
499
Location
Bandera, TX
...snip...

2. After the new law takes effect on Jan. 1 the impact of openly carrying a black powder pistol will be extremely less, unless the person carrying it somehow advertises that they are doing so without a CHL. I think that the vast majority of the general population will just assume the person carrying it has a CHL.

Yes I forgot to bring that up on my previous post. The fact that the more CHL holders OC, and the more it becomes normalized, the more people without CHLs should carry BP revolvers, therefore normalizing things even more. There's a lot of benefits to this:

1) People without CHL's can OC a BP revolver with less hassle or chances of a nasty encounter with a LEO. I know plenty of people who would like to carry but don't have the CHL.
2) LEO's and other folks may just assume the BP pistol is a modern day revolver, depending on how it's being carried and type of holster, etc..
3) Tell everyone you know that doesn't have a CHL but would like to OC that they can pick up a pretty decent BP pistol from Cabellas or similar for about 160 bucks. Heck, they can even have one delivered through the mail since they're not classed as firearms under either Texas or Federal laws!
4) If more and more people OC either modern day handguns with a CHL or a BP pistol without a CHL, the more it gets "normalized".

BTW, Bandera, Texas is known as the "cowboy capital"--which is why I know everyone here will be carrying after Jan 1st! Can't wait!!
 

bushwacker

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
203
Location
pottsboro,texas
In regards to bushwhacker's post, which I am not going to quote for brevity....

1. We aren't supposed to encourage people to open carry long guns on this forum:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

(14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control and lack of trigger guard coverage, we cannot support long gun open carry.

2. After the new law takes effect on Jan. 1 the impact of openly carrying a black powder pistol will be extremely less, unless the person carrying it somehow advertises that they are doing so without a CHL. I think that the vast majority of the general population will just assume the person carrying it has a CHL.

I missed that point , didn't know that we were being selective about the meaning of open carry maybe if the site was called open carry of handguns only dot org. something of that type may have kept me in the correct from the get go. excuuuuussseee me. either way all this is counterproductive of the positive that I was shooting for however getting back on track,you have touched on a good point about pistol distinction , and that is what I'm looking for. so for my input on that is, could we come up with a way to embroider,leather stamp, patch design, or do something with holsters that would say something in the ways of no permit needed for this pistol or permit free pistol, kinda of the way I have the letters of R.I.P. stamped on my western rig. you get the idea....
 

NewZealandAmerican

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
348
Location
Greater Salt Lake City Metro area far south suburb
RIGHTS vs privileges

(PLEASE READ THIS) By Michael Badnarik :[url]http://www.ConstitutionPreservation.org/sites/default/files/files-misc/chapter_two.pdf[/URL]A RIGHT is something that you can do without asking for permission, such as walking back and forth on your property. A privilege is something you require permission to do, such as walking back and forth across my property. I may grant you the privilege of walking across my property - BUT - I can revoke that privilege any time I wish. Rights and privileges are opposites! Either you need permission - or you don't. You can't lose "some" of your virginity, or be "a little bit" pregnant. You either are or you're not. There's no middle ground
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
I missed that point , didn't know that we were being selective about the meaning of open carry maybe if the site was called open carry of handguns only dot org. something of that type may have kept me in the correct from the get go. excuuuuussseee me. either way all this is counterproductive of the positive that I was shooting for however getting back on track,you have touched on a good point about pistol distinction , and that is what I'm looking for. so for my input on that is, could we come up with a way to embroider,leather stamp, patch design, or do something with holsters that would say something in the ways of no permit needed for this pistol or permit free pistol, kinda of the way I have the letters of R.I.P. stamped on my western rig. you get the idea....

Actually the Texas subforum is exempt from that rule currently, since we don't have any HGOC we can discuss LGOC to a degree. I guess that'll change Jan 1, but for now, that's the way it is...

I really like your idea about marking holster to indicate that a permit isn't needed when carrying BP replica. Cool idea.
 
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rushcreek2

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
909
Location
Colorado Springs. CO
not a reply, just putting these thoughts out

ok folks its time to stop all the arguing over a done deal issue and now time to start coming up with strategy and solution with what is now at hand, I would like to start off by saying acknowledging long gun open carry was very key in getting this step taken , now is time for all gun organizations to encourage those without permits to carry the black powder for normalization of handgun view as well as carrying of the long gun with them, if we can get even more long gun carry then more attention will be drawn to why it is that they are still doing it now that we have open carry......because those who didn't go with the rental program are not allowed, .... we have accomplished the awareness of how ridiculous it is that we can carry long guns and can't carry hand guns, now we need to bring out the fact on how wrong it is to deny a persons right to carry just because they don't want or cant afford the rental card, MUCH MORE LONG GUN CARRY NEEDS TO BE DONE BY THOSE THAT DON'T HAVE ZEE PAPERS (card) the statement is this discriminates against the rest of us ,like the poor. and if you do have a license ,still carry a long gun as to this is for the less fortunate and in memory of 2A fairness, why hell they have a ribbon for everything else, then why don't we start a black ribbon ( if you want-even put a little pink gun on it for those moms against guns groups , cant forget them) to commemorate/promote 2A fairness even help anchor the awareness by starting a day and annual event on the date of the passing of hb910 or better yet date the gov signs it (if he does) and call it 2A awareness day ...my last thought ...the money that I spend on my out of state permit ( of which I encourage everyone to start doing) could better go on my property taxes in texas, gun/ammo purchases, or other aspects of local necessary spending. so people what other positive steps or improvements can be made...the think tank is open..go

Thank you . Some very good points...

Today while TRAVELING from Choctaw, OK...South on I-35 ...and into the Great State of Texas.......the necessity presented....to stop at that Texas Welcome Center REST Area ....and exit my vehicle.... for the purpose of stretching my legs...loosening up my aching back.....and generally refreshing myself. I did not conceal my holstered handgun upon stepping out of my vehicle......because... I was TRAVELING.....and that temporary suspension of my TRAVELING for the purpose of engaging in a reasonable and necessary activity TANGENTIAL to my TRAVELING... did not negate my TRAVELING exception to TPC Section 46.02 applicability provided by the Texas Legislature under TPC 46.15.
 

qednick

Regular Member
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
499
Location
Bandera, TX
I missed that point , didn't know that we were being selective about the meaning of open carry maybe if the site was called open carry of handguns only dot org. something of that type may have kept me in the correct from the get go. excuuuuussseee me. either way all this is counterproductive of the positive that I was shooting for however getting back on track,you have touched on a good point about pistol distinction , and that is what I'm looking for. so for my input on that is, could we come up with a way to embroider,leather stamp, patch design, or do something with holsters that would say something in the ways of no permit needed for this pistol or permit free pistol, kinda of the way I have the letters of R.I.P. stamped on my western rig. you get the idea....

And/or some kind of T-shirt may help too!
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
That's funny :). I've seen posts about people wearing "Concealed Carry Permit" badges - but never a post about an indication of a lack of a permit ;)

m159.jpg

touche...perhaps a texas legislator will see your post and put the badge mandate in the statute...police could tell instantly this citizens privilege to OC.

ipse
 
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bushwacker

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
203
Location
pottsboro,texas
thanks guy for the positive replies the badge change up thing Is a good idea you got there navylcdr , I think that it should have BLACK POWDER on top and PERMIT FREE on bottom of it and also shaped like a powder keg for a little extra kick, just might get the unknowing asking some questions. we could also go with the qednick idea and have it printed on tee shirts, I like it. what do ya'll think
 

stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
touche...perhaps a texas legislator will see your post and put the badge mandate in the statute...police could tell instantly this citizens privilege to OC.

ipse

They already tried it this session, more than once. Thankfully the idea didn't get very far.
 
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