Need clarification on Texas open carry rules

[solus]

Ok guys (and gals), y'all just need to come show us how it's done, k? Tiny little internet bitches need to step up and help solve the problems instead of whining about the slow pace of progress.
We will be going from no open carry to reasonably widespread opportunity to carry openly. How about we work with what we have on the way to what we want.
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just truly love it noname when you resort to name calling..

1. widespread opportunity is what you said...well you have approximately 708K privilege cards currently in play in a state of 26.9M.
2. out of those 708K i'm willing to bet, maybe, high end guess...3K will take a chance and OC. period, not just in the beginning but total.
3. and you wish your legislature, sometime in your near future ~ 5 years, to drop the privilege card profit center for 3K of the voting populace.

yes sir, noname, please work with what you have...

by the way this critical internet individual (sorry i do not use nor tolerate the use of your derogatory term and am extremely disappointed you lowered yourself to publicly address members of this forum that way!! ) has from the beginning of the OC campaign flatly and consistently stated using LG to OC would be a dismal failure and to reach consensus within the texas factions to come up with a consolidated strategy...

tag, tell me noname how are the campaign organizers going to garner support to change your privilege card situation when only 3K out of 26.9M OC?

as the Commander stated, quote: I just think it is time we stopped deluding ourselves everywhere in this country and stop lying to ourselves. unquote.

ipse

 

[stealthyeliminator]

so stealth, et al., tell me how, without a privilege card, the good lonestar citizens who OC are avoiding the bold, underlined, italic comments you threw out in your tirade?

and the coup de grace with your emotional chastising of me by lambasting with the 2A rhetoric.

and it is obvious about much ado about nothing reference went over your head...

ipse

This is real simple, solus. We made an accomplishment in Texas, and you're attempting to minimize it. --moderator edited-- Have a good one, pal.

 

[nonameisgood]

...
tag, tell me noname how are the campaign organizers going to garner support to change your privilege card situation when only 3K out of 26.9M OC?

And therein lies the problem. Why would politicians piss off 30.000 law officers and the Legions of Internet liberals to accommodate the 3K of us who will open carry on occasion? Hopefully there will be positive movement once they realize that, while few actually carry in the open, some do, and no new blood flows in the street. When CC was debated here, the same "blood I the street" predictions were proclaimed. The exact same sorts of proclamations were made for licensed OC this year.
I would guess that the only guns 90% or more of Texans have seen outside of hunting or TV (or the military) are on LE. We have to normalize the seeing of guns before we go much farther.

It will be an uphill effort.


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[HPmatt]

Got a gently used SW 5906 ready to carry in January. Can tell those that ask 'it is a police gun', so you can trust me...

I think the Texas Pols were looking at the 900,000 CHL voters that now have expanded liberties.


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[nonameisgood]

I sold my 5906 some years ago and was regretting it. Then I thought about wearing 2 lbs of steel... But I was a great gun.
I ordered it in Slidell, LA, in 1988, right after they were announced. I had to wait many weeks for it to arrive.


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[stealthyeliminator]

This is real simple, solus. We made an accomplishment in Texas, and you're attempting to minimize it. --moderator edited-- Have a good one, pal.

Personal insult? That's a load of horse manure. If solus can't take someone telling him to essentially get lost, perhaps he shouldn't be expressing his opinions online, especially when they're clearly incorrect and pointed to the point of being useless in any capacity other than to be provocative and inflammatory, etc. He is a classic case of someone wanting to dish out what they can't handle themselves.

I'm pretty sure making note of the uselessness of someone's post is not against the rules. I merely made reference to the sort of response his sort of posts warrant.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

Texas still remains in the top 10 states with the most repressive carry laws .... just statin' facts. Texas took a step in the right direction - but there is a long, long, Texas sized trail ahead. Of course when they do away with the permit requirement you will call it "Constitutional Carry" even though a Texas sized list of prohibited places will still be in place.

I just think it is time we stopped deluding ourselves everywhere in this country and stop lying to ourselves.

Urinating (since the forum software considers other terminology offensive, apparently) on victories, no matter how small, is not productive. Simple as that.

Us "lonestar citizens" don't control popular usage or definition of constitutional carry. The term is generally used to refer to states in which one may carry a handgun concealed or openly without a license. If you don't like that definition, you're going to have to argue with a lot more than Texan's to get it changed.

 

[SteveInCO]

Just like how black plastic, detachable magazines and magazine capacity defines what is an assault rifle and what isn't. When the government still tells you what firearms you can legally posses and can't, and where you can legally bear those firearms and where you can't - it isn't Constitutional. Even if the Supreme Court says it is. Because what is the Supreme Court? Just another branch of the government. And the fact that pro-gun groups like to call things Constitutional that aren't is one of our biggest problems. Just like calling government controlled and permitted open carry a big victory, isn't... It's a matter of tucking the shirt in behind the gun, or letting the shirt flop over the gun - but either way you still need to pay for Uncle Sam Houston's permission to be granted. It's not a matter of what people like to claim is or isn't - it's what the real facts are. And the fact that you like to fight so hard, and celebrate so much when the government allows you to legally tuck your shirt in - that doesn't show how great things are now - that shows how bad things had become (and continue to be).

It's one thing to recognize that Texas is still, after this, not as true to the RKBA as we'd like it to be. It's another to refuse to see any value at all in the small improvement that has, indeed, been made. And earlier, you were coming across as the latter.

Let them celebrate their victory. I am pretty sure they recognize it's just one battle in a long, long war.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

It's one thing to recognize that Texas is still, after this, not as true to the RKBA as we'd like it to be. It's another to refuse to see any value at all in the small improvement that has, indeed, been made. And earlier, you were coming across as the latter.

Let them celebrate their victory. I am pretty sure they recognize it's just one battle in a long, long war.

Yes, precisely.


And just FYI, nearly every aspect of your life is "government controlled" to some degree, right down to the amount of water that is currently in your toilet tank. Unless we eventually completely absolve the government in any traditional sense, the RKBA will probably always be government controlled to some degree or another.

 

[solus]

I sold my 5906 some years ago and was regretting it. Then I thought about wearing 2 lbs of steel... But I was a great gun.
I ordered it in Slidell, LA, in 1988, right after they were announced. I had to wait many weeks for it to arrive.

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noname, thought about FN's FivenseveN? great SD firearm.

but there seems to be a couple of 5906's for sale at gun broker...

ipse

 

[solus]

It's one thing to recognize that Texas is still, after this, not as true to the RKBA as we'd like it to be. It's another to refuse to see any value at all in the small improvement that has, indeed, been made. And earlier, you were coming across as the latter.

Let them celebrate their victory. I am pretty sure they recognize it's just one battle in a long, long war.

no, steve, that is the problem, they truly do not recognize their victory came within a nat's arse of missing the boat this session. further, some rather maintain this laissez faire mentality it will be a piece of cake quote future sessions unquote.

humility and reality over what actually occurred while acknowledging in a realistic way forward goes a long way.

ipse

 

[MAC702]

That's my understanding as well. I know they mentioned adding that language in an attempt to get the police unions on board. I see that as nit picking. Going to be interesting to see how this all plays out. I'm very happy we're getting our rights back!

Correction: You did not get a "right back." You had your licensed privilege expanded. Big difference. Excellent progress, yes, but not the restoration of a right. I look forward to having the option on my twice-yearly visits to Texas.

 

[JDW1911]

Correction: You did not get a "right back." You had your licensed privilege expanded. Big difference. Excellent progress, yes, but not the restoration of a right. I look forward to having the option on my twice-yearly visits to Texas.

What in the hell are you talking about!? We ARE getting our rights back. Previously we could not carry concealed. Now we can! Previously we could not carry openly. Soon we shall! Do us a favor and stay where you are. Go visit Washington DC instead.

 

[nonameisgood]

What in the hell are you talking about!? We ARE getting our rights back. Previously we could not carry concealed. Now we can! Previously we could not carry openly. Soon we shall! Do us a favor and stay where you are. Go visit Washington DC instead.

His point is that since the law still requires a license to carry openly or concealed, it is still a privilege rather than a right. Like driving.
Some folks are so hung up on the vernacular that they overlook the net effect for those of us who have wanted this change. It is a small measure, effecting only 3% of the population (those currently holding a CHL.) They are "97% empty" guys, not "3% full" folks.

 

[nonameisgood]

noname, thought about FN's FivenseveN? great SD firearm.

but there seems to be a couple of 5906's for sale at gun broker...

ipse

I do not have a hankering for a heavy chunk of steel, even though I liked the 5906. I bought a S&W 57 (41 Rem Mag) like one I sold years ago. While I like it, it is not like I remember it. Nostalgia.

I have a collection of fine polymer arms for real use.

 

[Nascar24Glock]

What in the hell are you talking about!? We ARE getting our rights back. Previously we could not carry concealed. Now we can! Previously we could not carry openly. Soon we shall! Do us a favor and stay where you are. Go visit Washington DC instead.

MAC702 is correct. A right may be freely exercised with no government involvement except when exercise of that right infringes another's rights. A privilege is something that requires the government's permission (in this case, a concealed handgun license).

"No state shall convert a liberty into a privilege, license it, and attach a fee to it." - Supreme Court, Murdock v. Pennsylvania.

 

[marshaul]

What in the hell are you talking about!? We ARE getting our rights back. Previously we could not carry concealed. Now we can! Previously we could not carry openly. Soon we shall! Do us a favor and stay where you are. Go visit Washington DC instead.

An expansion of privilege, however useful, valuable, or desirable, is never the same thing as an expansion of right.

I can see the point being made here. While it's no doubt that Texas has made a step in the right direction, it seems unlikely that many further steps will be made so long as folks congratulate themselves on securing their "rights" when they have done anything but.

 

[nonameisgood]

I think that technically a right just is, and can't be expanded nor diminished. A government can interfere with it, which is where we are now. We think it's a right and they don't recognize it as one.


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[marshaul]

His point is that since the law still requires a license to carry openly or concealed, it is still a privilege rather than a right. Like driving.
Some folks are so hung up on the vernacular that they overlook the net effect for those of us who have wanted this change. It is a small measure, effecting only 3% of the population (those currently holding a CHL.) They are "97% empty" guys, not "3% full" folks.

It's not "vernacular". Perhaps those of you living under tyranny forget, but there is a world of difference between carrying as a free man on one's own prerogative, and between being considered a criminal if one does not first beg permission from the beneficent state.

Or do you imagine that only 3% of Texans own guns? The fact remains that every Texan with a firearm but no permit is being denied the right to engage in behavior he has every right and ability to engage in. The fact remains that thousands of Texans experience a "chilling effect" on their willingness to exercise their fundamental rights, either out of poverty, the ignorant-but-all-too-common assumption that they will be denied a permit, or their unwillingness to place yet one more aspect of their life under government purview.

I'm glad for the progress y'all are making, but rights are far too important a concept to water down in the name of self-congratulation over a half-victory. And yet, that is exactly what I see folks doing.

 

[bushwacker]

Correction: You did not get a "right back." You had your licensed privilege expanded. Big difference. Excellent progress, yes, but not the restoration of a right. I look forward to having the option on my twice-yearly visits to Texas.

yeah I don't like the permit thing at all but I am so tired of going from the florida line to the cali line or from texas all the way to the Canadian border and only when I am in my home state (texas)do I have to hide my gun like a crook , as for the pecentage of those that will carry open well I rarely see any open carriers in any of the states that I go and I meet a lot of folks in my travels but yet I am sitting here in salt lake city Utah in open carry fashion as I have not seen one open carrier on this trip that started in dallas , ,,,VERY SAD....