marshaul
Campaign Veteran
I wonder whether the officer called for backup.
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Michael Brown unarmed shooting in Ferguson, MO
- Thread starter The Truth
- Start date
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I wonder whether the officer called for backup.
Redbaron007
Regular Member
That too.
With all the different articles I've read today, a lot has run together; I could have sworn I saw that the Ferguson PD doesn't have video/recordings capabilities on their vehicles. I have not confirmed that is accurate. I know it was repeated on a couple of other forums; but I believe there was a media outlet that indicated there are no recording on the vehicles. :uhoh:
i got it.
So you wanna know how to prevent gun violence? It's not by disarming law abiding citizens.
It's by getting rid of worthless people like this young man. Drive by, police shooting, home invasion or a drug deal gone bad he was destined for one of these.
Just like in travon Martin case, the media is putting out photos of him .. like in junior high school. Make no mistake folks he wasn't a great kid on his way to college, he was a criminal.
Sit back and listen to facts and things that make sense. .. Why did cop fire inside his cruiser? Maybe cause he was getting pancaked inside it.
Witness stories make no sense... No cop would choose to take on 2 man single handedly.
And I didnt think so about the cop was shooting when the kid had his hands up.
And how the media keeps saying cop shot an "unarmed teen"... Look, you don't have to be holding a pistol to get shot. Again attacking an officer may be hazardous to your health.
O and media again .. the latest thing is Why police just didn't shoot to wound? Why they shoot to kill. My god the idiotics continue .
So you wanna know how to prevent gun violence? It's not by disarming law abiding citizens.
It's by getting rid of worthless people like this young man. Drive by, police shooting, home invasion or a drug deal gone bad he was destined for one of these.
Just like in travon Martin case, the media is putting out photos of him .. like in junior high school. Make no mistake folks he wasn't a great kid on his way to college, he was a criminal.
Sit back and listen to facts and things that make sense. .. Why did cop fire inside his cruiser? Maybe cause he was getting pancaked inside it.
Witness stories make no sense... No cop would choose to take on 2 man single handedly.
And I didnt think so about the cop was shooting when the kid had his hands up.
And how the media keeps saying cop shot an "unarmed teen"... Look, you don't have to be holding a pistol to get shot. Again attacking an officer may be hazardous to your health.
O and media again .. the latest thing is Why police just didn't shoot to wound? Why they shoot to kill. My god the idiotics continue .
Toymaker
Regular Member
lukaszu,
We're not advocating the disarmament of law abiding citizens. Most of us here are for the legalization of open and concealed carry for all law abiding citizens nation wide.
The Police Chief admitted that the officer stopped Brown and his friend for walking in the street blocking traffic, not for suspicion of the earlier robbery. This makes what Brown's friend said to be true. He wasn't lying about why the officer engaged them.
Brown's friend also said that they ignored the officer's order to get out of the street telling him that they were almost to their destination and would leave the street soon. He said that the officer then cut them off with his patrol car and grabbed Brown. At that point there was most likely a scuffle between Brown and the officer. According to the Chief the officer said that Brown grabbed for his gun. One of the witnesses also said that she saw the two struggling at the car. At that point the officer somehow shot Brown. Brown and his friend then took off running.
Here's the big question: Did Brown stop and turn around with his hands up and did the officer shoot him again at that point? That's something the coroner, county and federal investigators will have to determine but, until then, there were three witnesses who say that's exactly what happened and so far those witnesses haven't been discredited.
Brown was a criminal no doubt but if the officer shot him, after he'd stopped and turned around with his hands up, that is not good.
We're not advocating the disarmament of law abiding citizens. Most of us here are for the legalization of open and concealed carry for all law abiding citizens nation wide.
The Police Chief admitted that the officer stopped Brown and his friend for walking in the street blocking traffic, not for suspicion of the earlier robbery. This makes what Brown's friend said to be true. He wasn't lying about why the officer engaged them.
Brown's friend also said that they ignored the officer's order to get out of the street telling him that they were almost to their destination and would leave the street soon. He said that the officer then cut them off with his patrol car and grabbed Brown. At that point there was most likely a scuffle between Brown and the officer. According to the Chief the officer said that Brown grabbed for his gun. One of the witnesses also said that she saw the two struggling at the car. At that point the officer somehow shot Brown. Brown and his friend then took off running.
Here's the big question: Did Brown stop and turn around with his hands up and did the officer shoot him again at that point? That's something the coroner, county and federal investigators will have to determine but, until then, there were three witnesses who say that's exactly what happened and so far those witnesses haven't been discredited.
Brown was a criminal no doubt but if the officer shot him, after he'd stopped and turned around with his hands up, that is not good.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
I would like to know HOW Brown was grabbing for the officers gun WHILE THE OFFICER WAS STILL IN THE CAR. Even if the officer was left handed this would be very very very difficult while the gun was in the holster. The first shot came from inside the car, I would suspect that the officer pulled his gun on the two juveniles and whether criminal or not reacted in the same way I would have.
Hit me with a car door and then pull a gun, threaten to shoot me, and I have not broken any laws I will fight for that gun. The officer was lucky that the Brown was not actually armed. It does not matter whether Brown was a criminal or not, he was not stopped for a dangerous felony, and he pulled a gun, after assault.
There is a lot to this story that stinks from the officers claims.
Hit me with a car door and then pull a gun, threaten to shoot me, and I have not broken any laws I will fight for that gun. The officer was lucky that the Brown was not actually armed. It does not matter whether Brown was a criminal or not, he was not stopped for a dangerous felony, and he pulled a gun, after assault.
There is a lot to this story that stinks from the officers claims.
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got it
Easy... I'm guessing brown was pushing the cop back into his car, when the coo got his pistol out and fired they broke contact and ran. But again if u attack a cop and go for his gun, I don't think it matters anymore if u are running or fighting .. u gonna get shot.
Now if he surrendered and cop then started shooting I would say it would not be good on cops behalf.
Easy... I'm guessing brown was pushing the cop back into his car, when the coo got his pistol out and fired they broke contact and ran. But again if u attack a cop and go for his gun, I don't think it matters anymore if u are running or fighting .. u gonna get shot.
Now if he surrendered and cop then started shooting I would say it would not be good on cops behalf.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
I had the same thought. The man didn't even get out of his car. How did the gun come into play unless the cop tried to bring it into play, and why was he attempting to draw his firearm over two individuals walking down the road, or (at worst) being pushed? Is that consistent with the use-of-force continuum?
Toymaker
Regular Member
It would be hard to disprove the officer's statements up to that point and he'll be given the benefit of the doubt. The way Brown was acting that day he may well had been stupid enough to try to go after the officer's gun. They'll likely run a toxicology test on Brown to see if he'd been on something. Those cigars are often used to make blunts so it's plausible that he had some type of marijuana connection.
The question is if there's tangible evidence that the officer shot Brown as he was giving up.
The question is if there's tangible evidence that the officer shot Brown as he was giving up.
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Primus
Regular Member
I agree. That is the ultimate question... At what point was the guy shot. Not during the struggle but the last part where he supposedly "gave up".
Remember the supposed eyewitness had just been involved in that robbery as well. Another upstanding citizen...
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OC for ME
Regular Member
5 PM news, three eye witnesses. All stating that Brown's hands were up and he demanding that the cop not shoot.
Anyway, cops will defend cops, as is evidenced on this thread. Cops will disparage citizens in pursuit of defending a cop, as is evidenced in this thread.
The robbery and the shoot have no correlation, the chief has stated as such. But, this will not stop cops from their pursuit of defending their own until they are forced to defend the indefensible.
The wheels on the bus go round and round.
Anyway, cops will defend cops, as is evidenced on this thread. Cops will disparage citizens in pursuit of defending a cop, as is evidenced in this thread.
The robbery and the shoot have no correlation, the chief has stated as such. But, this will not stop cops from their pursuit of defending their own until they are forced to defend the indefensible.
The wheels on the bus go round and round.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
+1
The one fact that seems to be undisputed is the young male was unarmed and leaving the scene when he was murdered.
Primus
Regular Member
Negative my friend... He was unarmed. That's the only fact.
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sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Oh of course if you ignore the other facts and witnesses such as the distance the man was from the car, or from the man in a costume........
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Primus
Regular Member
Oh of course if you ignore the other facts and witnesses such as the distance the man was from the car, or from the man in a costume........
What was the distance? They released the report on the shooting? Damn I missed it... Can you post it?
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davidmcbeth
Banned
Looks like cop was another "Top Cop" - recently got an award !
https://news.yahoo.com/photos-fergu...police-award-earlier-this-year-021255893.html
Officer Darren Wilson earned a commendation for his “extraordinary effort in the line of duty.”
Seems like all the cops there have hair issues .... I wonder why he needs an escort...
https://news.yahoo.com/photos-fergu...police-award-earlier-this-year-021255893.html
Officer Darren Wilson earned a commendation for his “extraordinary effort in the line of duty.”
Seems like all the cops there have hair issues .... I wonder why he needs an escort...
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Richieg150
Regular Member
Earlier in the day, Brown stole some cigars from the store and assaulted the store employee in the process, which is called a strong armed robbery. That trumps the chant of those in Browns corner chanting ," He was a GENTLE giant",..... right. If nothing more it shows Brown character and demeanor that day, his own family members were quoted saying ," Brown was mentally challenged," Brown and his witness, who was identified on video in the store with him during his strong armed robbery, were walking down the middle of the street.. WHY do BLACK youth walk down the middle of the street, INSTEAD of on the sidewalks??? There are a GROUP of BLACK youth that regularly walk down the middle of the street in my surburban neighborhood, instead of on the sidewalks. I stopped and asked them one time why they didn't use the sidewalks, they proceeded to cuss me out and tell me this was THEIR streets and to go around them. I will drive up on them and they will be 4 wide, and you cant even hardly get by them.... and they WONT budge an inch. I've called and had officers come out, they have said they know there is a problem with this, and to next time, quote, " RUN THEM OVER". All Brown had to do was, SHUP UP, and get out of the MIDDLE of the street. That was not HIS choice. Brown and his friend, had no idea that they were or weren't being stopped for their strong armed robbery earlier that day, so nobody can say WHAT was going thru Browns mind. Brown was no teenager, like the pictures the media have been showing- which bear no resemblance, to the thug that picked the store employee up by his neck. He was a 290-300 man using his size as a weapon and to intimidate. Just because Brown wasn't armed, DOESNT mean he wasn't a threat to the officer. Those who support OC, know that many more people are killed by bare hands than a firearm. I don't know what happened, I just know by Browns action earlier that day, by his action of walking down the middle of a public street, and by the way he used his size to intimidate and as a weapon, his actions at the time of the LEO encounter, MAY have justified getting shot, nobody knows for sure, and after finding out that his witness was involved with him, as proven by the stores video, earlier that day during his strong armed robbery, i'm not sure his testimony could be credible. The is something called Size Disparity. The MISSOURI SUPREME COURT RULED:
The Supreme Court of Missouri has recognized that superior physical strength coupled with threats may give reasonable cause to fear great personal injury. The court later found that:
“Something more than fear of size however, is required to justify the use of deadly force in self-defense. Some affirmative action, gesture or communication by the person feared indicating the immediacy of the danger, the ability to avoid it and the necessity of using deadly force must also be present.”
The court quoted with approval that a “man, because he is the physical inferior of another … is [not] … bound to submit to a public [assault] … If nature has not provided the means for such resistance, art may; in short, a weapon may be used… “
Most NORMAL People tend to react and think the same, that's why we are judged by a jury of OUR peers, hoping that very thing. Its hard to think, in my normal thinking mind, that two guys, walking down the middle of the street, after robbing a store earlier that day, NOT knowing if there interaction is because of what happened earlier that day.... are going to be GENTLE, COMPLIANT, and NON_AGGRESSIVE, to ANY LEO interaction. Had Brown just kept his mouth shut, gentle and compliant, and moved out of the middle of the street, all the events afterward would never have happened.
The Supreme Court of Missouri has recognized that superior physical strength coupled with threats may give reasonable cause to fear great personal injury. The court later found that:
“Something more than fear of size however, is required to justify the use of deadly force in self-defense. Some affirmative action, gesture or communication by the person feared indicating the immediacy of the danger, the ability to avoid it and the necessity of using deadly force must also be present.”
The court quoted with approval that a “man, because he is the physical inferior of another … is [not] … bound to submit to a public [assault] … If nature has not provided the means for such resistance, art may; in short, a weapon may be used… “
Most NORMAL People tend to react and think the same, that's why we are judged by a jury of OUR peers, hoping that very thing. Its hard to think, in my normal thinking mind, that two guys, walking down the middle of the street, after robbing a store earlier that day, NOT knowing if there interaction is because of what happened earlier that day.... are going to be GENTLE, COMPLIANT, and NON_AGGRESSIVE, to ANY LEO interaction. Had Brown just kept his mouth shut, gentle and compliant, and moved out of the middle of the street, all the events afterward would never have happened.
davidmcbeth
Banned
The issue here is really not if the cop had justification ... its irrelevant .. the issue is 1st amendment right to assemble ... and the gov't use of shooting at unarmed people.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
OH I see the problem, it didn't happen until the cops said it happened. My bad.......
Despite the witnesses who saw him being shot in the back trying to flee?
There seem to be a lot of folks not separating the events:
Robbery of cigars
Police stop and shooting on the street (not tied to the robbery remember it was a j-walking offense though Micheal Brown may have thought otherwise when resisting)
Vigil
Police response to vigil
turned vigil to riot
Protest of police excessive force
police response to excessive force with significantly increased excessive force
Additional protest
Extremely poor response to excessive force protest by police with significant lawlessness and civil rights violations by police
While I do not support any of the illegal actions by citizens I don't idle by and use them to excuse illegal actions by police. Those whom do tend to be of the totalitarian nature and are scary as all get out when you see the sources.
For you younger people involved, you would be advised to review our history regarding such events. Columbia University 1968, Kent State 1970 both come to mind, both lack the racial element that seems to be getting inserted into the current event by BOTH sides, and both were triggered by the police responding poorly to free speech protest. There are other clear situations in our past, however those two are particularly clear on the cause and result in most peoples eyes.
Free speech has always had a price in this country and when it was not popular it has been a high price. Never let them take or register your guns, tyranny is but one more police action away on any given day.
Cite: History and recent police actions in Ferguson MO.
Robbery of cigars
Police stop and shooting on the street (not tied to the robbery remember it was a j-walking offense though Micheal Brown may have thought otherwise when resisting)
Vigil
Police response to vigil
turned vigil to riot
Protest of police excessive force
police response to excessive force with significantly increased excessive force
Additional protest
Extremely poor response to excessive force protest by police with significant lawlessness and civil rights violations by police
While I do not support any of the illegal actions by citizens I don't idle by and use them to excuse illegal actions by police. Those whom do tend to be of the totalitarian nature and are scary as all get out when you see the sources.
For you younger people involved, you would be advised to review our history regarding such events. Columbia University 1968, Kent State 1970 both come to mind, both lack the racial element that seems to be getting inserted into the current event by BOTH sides, and both were triggered by the police responding poorly to free speech protest. There are other clear situations in our past, however those two are particularly clear on the cause and result in most peoples eyes.
Free speech has always had a price in this country and when it was not popular it has been a high price. Never let them take or register your guns, tyranny is but one more police action away on any given day.
Cite: History and recent police actions in Ferguson MO.
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