Michael Brown unarmed shooting in Ferguson, MO

[Richieg150]

The thing is the idiot did not know they stole cigars, he flexed his muscles and pulled his gun OVER jay walking. He violated every rule officer safety, and situational awareness, and to counter that mistake he pulled his gun in a enclosed vehicle and clearly threatened to shoot. I don't care about the ******* cigars. This officer screwed up even if he was justified, and that is a big if. He was the catalyst of riots that caused injuries and property damage. All because he INTENTIONALLY drove up to striking distance of a person he did not know was safe. Roll the window down and be a smart arse over jay walking, when that backfired he shot the kid, and then the kid ran. Otherwise the kid could not have got 35 feet from the squad car, unless you are going to claim the bullets KNOCKED him 35 feet away. The claim the kid attacked him at the car, and then was shot while unarmed a distance away clearly is a execution, IMO.

The officers story is lame, and if the slightest sliver of truth it shows he is completely incompetent. No matter what had take place before. As a former officer I am disgusted that the police do not police their own. To make matters worse statists are more than happy to have police execute certain people because of their disdain for them.

You're anology MAY or MAY NOT be the correct, only a couple know for sure. One is the cop, one is dead, and the other is Browns friend, his testimony May or MAY NOT be credible. But above all this, all Brown and his friend had to do was just keep their mouths shut and get out of the middle of the street. They were in the wrong, walking down the middle of the street, when told to get out of the street, they had to smart mouth the LEO, which many of us have done, and the chain of events were set into motion. Brown MAY OR MAY not have tried to wrestle the firearm from the officer, WHO knows???? Given the strong armed robbery earlier in the day, it shows that Brown used his size to intimidate, maybe he did, maybe he didn't .I've heard so many call him a TEEN, a KID, anything to make him look young, less threatening, or innocent. Watch the video of the strong armed robbery as many times as you need to see exactly how Brown handled himself or the store clerk.... his demeanor WASNT that of a TEEN or KID. MANY seem to THINK they have it right and can see everything so clearly and seem to see no other possible reason or outcome but the one they have arrived at..... If so.... we need more like you in our current administration, to help get to the bottom of its issues. You said that the officer was the catalyst that caused all the rioting and property damage..... REALLY???? NORMAL people don't riot, destroy innocent peoples property, loot pillage, hurt innocent people not even associated with the event. It gave those in the HOOD a reason to act like they did period, it doesn't matter WHAT happened to BROWN, similar things happen everyday, somewhere and NORMAL people do just that, act normal, mourn, cry for justice, rally together, and support each other. NOT start robbing local business and burning them to the ground.... Those looting and robbing, are lucky they weren't shot, which would not at all be out of line for how they were acting.... Then MANY justifying the actions of those rioting because...... they were upset. Ive been upset, over injustice, I know MANY people that have been upset over injustice..... and IMAGINE this...... have never rioted, pillaged, looted, or burned down any businesses.

 

[Grapeshot]

You're anology MAY or MAY NOT be the correct, only a couple know for sure. One is the cop, one is dead, and the other is Browns friend, his testimony May or MAY NOT be credible. But above all this, all Brown and his friend had to do was just keep their mouths shut and get out of the middle of the street. They were in the wrong, walking down the middle of the street, when told to get out of the street, they had to smart mouth the LEO, which many of us have done, and the chain of events were set into motion. Brown MAY OR MAY not have tried to wrestle the firearm from the officer, WHO knows???? Given the strong armed robbery earlier in the day, it shows that Brown used his size to intimidate, maybe he did, maybe he didn't .I've heard so many call him a TEEN, a KID, anything to make him look young, less threatening, or innocent. Watch the video of the strong armed robbery as many times as you need to see exactly how Brown handled himself or the store clerk.... his demeanor WASNT that of a TEEN or KID. MANY seem to THINK they have it right and can see everything so clearly and seem to see no other possible reason or outcome but the one they have arrived at..... If so.... we need more like you in our current administration, to help get to the bottom of its issues. You said that the officer was the catalyst that caused all the rioting and property damage..... REALLY???? NORMAL people don't riot, destroy innocent peoples property, loot pillage, hurt innocent people not even associated with the event. It gave those in the HOOD a reason to act like they did period, it doesn't matter WHAT happened to BROWN, similar things happen everyday, somewhere and NORMAL people do just that, act normal, mourn, cry for justice, rally together, and support each other. NOT start robbing local business and burning them to the ground.... Those looting and robbing, are lucky they weren't shot, which would not at all be out of line for how they were acting.... Then MANY justifying the actions of those rioting because...... they were upset. Ive been upset, over injustice, I know MANY people that have been upset over injustice..... and IMAGINE this...... have never rioted, pillaged, looted, or burned down any businesses.

^ ^Likely the most responsible post yet on this incident. ^ ^

There is waaay to much we do not know.

I do know that those that rioted, damaged property, and looted are at the bottom of my Responsible Citizen of the Year list - there is no excuse for what they did....none. Their violent response cost them any credibility they may have had. They harmed innocents who had nothing to do with the perceived injustice,for their own selfish gain.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Agreed.. And good point. I had posted that prior to knowing for a fact. Was an educated guess...

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

It is an ignorant point, totally having nothing to do with the officer's actions!

 

[WalkingWolf]

You're anology MAY or MAY NOT be the correct, only a couple know for sure. One is the cop, one is dead, and the other is Browns friend, his testimony May or MAY NOT be credible. But above all this, all Brown and his friend had to do was just keep their mouths shut and get out of the middle of the street. They were in the wrong, walking down the middle of the street, when told to get out of the street, they had to smart mouth the LEO, which many of us have done, and the chain of events were set into motion. Brown MAY OR MAY not have tried to wrestle the firearm from the officer, WHO knows???? Given the strong armed robbery earlier in the day, it shows that Brown used his size to intimidate, maybe he did, maybe he didn't .I've heard so many call him a TEEN, a KID, anything to make him look young, less threatening, or innocent. Watch the video of the strong armed robbery as many times as you need to see exactly how Brown handled himself or the store clerk.... his demeanor WASNT that of a TEEN or KID. MANY seem to THINK they have it right and can see everything so clearly and seem to see no other possible reason or outcome but the one they have arrived at..... If so.... we need more like you in our current administration, to help get to the bottom of its issues. You said that the officer was the catalyst that caused all the rioting and property damage..... REALLY???? NORMAL people don't riot, destroy innocent peoples property, loot pillage, hurt innocent people not even associated with the event. It gave those in the HOOD a reason to act like they did period, it doesn't matter WHAT happened to BROWN, similar things happen everyday, somewhere and NORMAL people do just that, act normal, mourn, cry for justice, rally together, and support each other. NOT start robbing local business and burning them to the ground.... Those looting and robbing, are lucky they weren't shot, which would not at all be out of line for how they were acting.... Then MANY justifying the actions of those rioting because...... they were upset. Ive been upset, over injustice, I know MANY people that have been upset over injustice..... and IMAGINE this...... have never rioted, pillaged, looted, or burned down any businesses.

Paragraphs are your friend...

 

[Richieg150]

Paragraphs are your friend...

PARAGRAPHS.... I barely passed English in high school, never took it in any of the college classes I took..... I can barely type or spell..... so paragraphs...... wouldn't be in the right places ect.... so I don't even try... LOL I leave that to the more grammatically correct..

 

[WalkingWolf]

PARAGRAPHS.... I barely passed English in high school, never took it in any of the college classes I took..... I can barely type or spell..... so paragraphs...... wouldn't be in the right places ect.... so I don't even try... LOL I leave that to the more grammatically correct..

Paragraphs make reading more enjoyable. If you can't take the effort to edit and make your post presentable then I won't make the effort to read it. I don't care about perfect posting, none of us is perfect, but at least make some effort. Breaking up long post into at least a couple paragraphs does not take a college degree.

 

[Grapeshot]

You're anology MAY or MAY NOT be the correct, only a couple know for sure.

One is the cop, one is dead, and the other is Browns friend, his testimony May or MAY NOT be credible. But above all this, all Brown and his friend had to do was just keep their mouths shut and get out of the middle of the street. They were in the wrong, walking down the middle of the street, when told to get out of the street, they had to smart mouth the LEO, which many of us have done, and the chain of events were set into motion.

Brown MAY OR MAY not have tried to wrestle the firearm from the officer, WHO knows???? Given the strong armed robbery earlier in the day, it shows that Brown used his size to intimidate, maybe he did, maybe he didn't .I've heard so many call him a TEEN, a KID, anything to make him look young, less threatening, or innocent. Watch the video of the strong armed robbery as many times as you need to see exactly how Brown handled himself or the store clerk.... his demeanor WASNT that of a TEEN or KID.

MANY seem to THINK they have it right and can see everything so clearly and seem to see no other possible reason or outcome but the one they have arrived at..... If so.... we need more like you in our current administration, to help get to the bottom of its issues. You said that the officer was the catalyst that caused all the rioting and property damage..... REALLY????

NORMAL people don't riot, destroy innocent peoples property, loot pillage, hurt innocent people not even associated with the event. It gave those in the HOOD a reason to act like they did period, it doesn't matter WHAT happened to BROWN, similar things happen everyday, somewhere and NORMAL people do just that, act normal, mourn, cry for justice, rally together, and support each other. NOT start robbing local business and burning them to the ground....

Those looting and robbing, are lucky they weren't shot, which would not at all be out of line for how they were acting.... Then MANY justifying the actions of those rioting because...... they were upset. Ive been upset, over injustice, I know MANY people that have been upset over injustice..... and IMAGINE this...... have never rioted, pillaged, looted, or burned down any businesses.

Did a little sample editing for paragraphs above - no don't expect that regularly

Breaking a wall of text up is simply polite/courteous and will be read by many more people.

PS - anything can be said to be difficult......until we learn how to do it, then it's easy

 

[1245A Defender]

Well,,,

PARAGRAPHS.... I barely passed English in high school, never took it in any of the college classes I took..... I can barely type or spell..... so paragraphs...... wouldn't be in the right places ect.... so I don't even try... LOL I leave that to the more grammatically correct..

I think you are full of BS,,, and I think you are just being too lazy to bother with being considerate.

I read your wall of text...
Sooo you Can type.
You can spell.
You punctuate.
You form clear thoughts in sentences.
Aaanndd, Your screed very well summed up the known ideas and facts surrounding the events!

But you cant be bothered to hit the enter key?

Really??? You went to college???

 

[waskel]

Besides, it's "etc".....

 

[wittmeba]

It would be hard to disprove the officer's statements up to that point and he'll be given the benefit of the doubt. The way Brown was acting that day he may well had been stupid enough to try to go after the officer's gun. They'll likely run a toxicology test on Brown to see if he'd been on something. Those cigars are often used to make blunts so it's plausible that he had some type of marijuana connection.

The question is if there's tangible evidence that the officer shot Brown as he was giving up.

The very precise timeline of all the events will be critical.

Did the officer get partially out of the vehicle when Brown made contact with him? I read where when the officer opened the door it bumped one of them and bounced back on the officers leg.
How does a person (Brown) raise his hands if he is partially in a vehicle?

 

[FBrinson]

I think you are full of BS,,, and I think you are just being too lazy to bother with being considerate.

I read your wall of text...
Sooo you Can type.
You can spell.
You punctuate.
You form clear thoughts in sentences.
Aaanndd, Your screed very well summed up the known ideas and facts surrounding the events!

But you cant be bothered to hit the enter key?

Really??? You went to college???

Says the guy who hits the enter key after EVERY sentence. Just poking fun, but funny! :banana:

On Topic: I'll wait for more information and investigation before passing judgement on anyone involved.

 

[davidmcbeth]

Now its curfew time.....good idea like that has never been tried before.

https://news.yahoo.com/police-deploy-tear-gas-impose-ferguson-curfew-094257268.html


And the use of gas seems to make it OK for chemical attacks ? Any chemical attacks? Gas is banned for use against soldiers in combat but is OK against civilians? Hmmmm...

 

[357SigFan]

My guess is, because they know damn well it has basically nothing to do with whether the individual posed an immediate threat of lethal force. Their unwillingness to offer any actual evidence (rather than what basically amounts to innuendo) speaks volumes.

If their guy is so justified, why not just release the facts which demonstrate it? Instead, they are trying the deceased in the court of public opinion with what, again, basically amounts to innuendo.

IMO, even if the alleged are guilty of everything (including constituting an immediate lethal threat to the officer in question), this incident speaks to the arrogance of police, and the need for them to start turning their damn cameras on (dash and lapel), and be held accountable when they inexcusably do not.

How to you expect them to 'Turn their damn cameras on' when there aren't any there to turn on?? While I haven’t been able to confirm with people I know that might know, the Ferguson Chief reported that they were not outfitted with cameras – I have no reason to doubt that – I think everyone here can imagine the storm that would ensue if it came out the cruiser was equipped but ‘wasn’t recording’. Not every PD has video recording in their cruisers. Last I looked, the local PD where I'm originally from back in NY didn't have video recording, or even the car mounted radar that all the MO PDs I've seen have.

Negative my friend... He was unarmed. That's the only fact.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Wrong. He was not unarmed. He may not have had a knife or firearm , but he was definitely armed. At 6'4" and 300#, you can put a LOT of force behind your fist, even to the point of incapacitating a person with a solid punch. Supposedly the officer was treated for facial injuries - assuming that's true, and assuming it's from Brown punching the officer, then a little harder hit or a hit in a slightly different place could have changed the headlines to say 'Ferguson officer shot with his own weapon'. The only way you are ever truly unarmed is if you're a quadriplegic.

None of us knows what REALLY happened, but the video of the robbery paints a very clear picture of the kind of person Brown was - not the 'Gentle Giant' some report him as - and his likely mindset at the time. As has been pointed out, the officer didn't know about the robbery at the time, but Brown didn't know that. It's very possible that he assumed he was being stopped for the robbery and got violent. But we don't know what happened.

The problem I have with witness reports is the lack of video - The police have a 'legit' reason for lack of video (the cruiser wasn't equipped - you can't pull video out of thin air. Different story if the cruiser was equipped and not recording or if the video 'went missing'). My wife (who is a teacher for SLPS), tells me that in this day and age, even Kindergarteners are whipping out phones and recording when things get heated in the classroom. I have a hard time believing that NO ONE that witnessed it had a phone that could have recorded at least the tail end of the event. If it happened as witnesses claim, such video, even only of the tail end of the encounter, would have been damning to the officer. On the other hand, if such video did exist but things unfolded the way the officer claims, then it would have exonerated him (and you KNOW if video was taken and it didn't fit with the witness claims, there's NO WAY it would ever come out).

 

[marshaul]

How to you expect them to 'Turn their damn cameras on' when there aren't any there to turn on?? While I haven’t been able to confirm with people I know that might know, the Ferguson Chief reported that they were not outfitted with cameras – I have no reason to doubt that – I think everyone here can imagine the storm that would ensue if it came out the cruiser was equipped but ‘wasn’t recording’.

I really don't give a damn. Every officer should be required to record every interaction, especially those wherein they kill a citizen. They should be held, at the very least, personally civilly liable for any harm they cause without such video corroboration.

At this point (2014), "not having" cameras installed is precisely the same as "not having them turned on", which is tantamount to lying.

There is precisely zero excuse for this crap.

 

[marshaul]

Wrong. He was not unarmed. He may not have had a knife or firearm , but he was definitely armed. At 6'4" and 300#, you can put a LOT of force behind your fist, even to the point of incapacitating a person with a solid punch.

Sorry, the potential lethality of punches does not change the fact that, by definition, a person attacking with his hands and feet is "unarmed".

Furthermore, a cop has many tools on his belt, and while a slight individual might reasonably discharge a firearm in apprehension of such an attack, officers are (should be) trained in the de-escalation of force and a rigid use-of-force continuum. I'm pretty certain that shooting a person who shoves you does not fit on the use-of-force continuum.

This officer almost certainly could have called for backup, and he could have responded to a shove with a tool other than his firearm.

And if not, well then he should have bothered to record video to prove his highly discreditable account of taking a citizen's life.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Sorry, the potential lethality of punches does not change the fact that, by definition, a person attacking with his hands and feet is "unarmed".

Furthermore, a cop has many tools on his belt, and while a slight individual might reasonably discharge a firearm in apprehension of such an attack, officers are (should be) trained in the de-escalation of force and a rigid use-of-force continuum. I'm pretty certain that shooting a person who shoves you does not fit on the use-of-force continuum.

This officer almost certainly could have called for backup, and he could have responded to a shove with a tool other than his firearm.

And if not, well then he should have bothered to record video to prove his highly discreditable account of taking a citizen's life.

All the cop had to do was roll up his window and lock the door put it in reverse and wait for backup. I have no doubt the cop fired in anger, that is why he chased the boy down after the first shot and finished him off. The cop put himself in that position in the first place, and it was completely STUPID!

 

[357SigFan]

I really don't give a damn. Every officer should be required to record every interaction, especially those wherein they kill a citizen. They should be held, at the very least, personally civilly liable for any harm they cause without such video corroboration.

At this point (2014), "not having" cameras installed is precisely the same as "not having them turned on", which is tantamount to lying.

There is precisely zero excuse for this crap.

Give me a break. Saying that a PD not having DVRs installed in all their cruisers is 'tantamount to lying' is absurd. Basically, what your saying is the same as saying if one of us has to shoot someone in self defense and doesn't have video of it, then we're lying and should be held liable for it.

Let's change your statement a little... "Every Citizen that carries a firearm should be required to record every interaction, especially those wherein they kill another citizen. They should be held, at the very least, personally civilly liable for any harm they cause without such video corroboration." Before you try to say that us recording every interaction is crazy or not needed, Like the police, we never know if we might have to defend ourselves - it's not like you can go -'hold on a second, let me start my video recording... Ok, continue' so we would have to record EVERYTHING in order to capture a SD event if it were to happen.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have video recording on all cruisers, or that I necessarily disagree with you that they should, but the reality is not all departments are equipped. That doesn't mean they're going out looking to murder innocent citizens, or that in the event they do kill someone in the line of duty, that they're automatically lying.

 

[wittmeba]

Apparently there are two Darren Wilson's with the police departments of Missouri. One in St. Louis and one at Ferguson.

Is this the right one?

http://news.yahoo.com/photos-fergus...police-award-earlier-this-year-021255893.html

The sad part of all this is all the ones affected by the looting, damage, store closings losing business had absolutely nothing to do with the death of Michael.

 

[357SigFan]

Sorry, the potential lethality of punches does not change the fact that, by definition, a person attacking with his hands and feet is "unarmed".

Furthermore, a cop has many tools on his belt, and while a slight individual might reasonably discharge a firearm in apprehension of such an attack, officers are (should be) trained in the de-escalation of force and a rigid use-of-force continuum. I'm pretty certain that shooting a person who shoves you does not fit on the use-of-force continuum.

This officer almost certainly could have called for backup, and he could have responded to a shove with a tool other than his firearm.

And if not, well then he should have bothered to record video to prove his highly discreditable account of taking a citizen's life.

I completely disagree with your 'assessment' that attacking with hands and/or feet is still 'unarmed' - your hands are weapons - one good punch that KO's the one being attacked, which puts them on the ground and open to be kicked to death, or in the case of a cop, his weapon be taken and shot with it.

As far as de-escalation of force, that's easy to say if you go into it expecting a violent encounter, but we really don't know what happened - the officer could have been sucker punched, and brown could have made a credible threat ('I'm gonna kill you, pig!') - we just don't know.

 

[357SigFan]

Apparently there are two Darren Wilson's with the police departments of Missouri. One in St. Louis and one at Ferguson.

Is this the right one?

http://news.yahoo.com/photos-fergus...police-award-earlier-this-year-021255893.html

Supposedly, the county officer is black. Not 100% sure on that, though.

The sad part of all this is all the ones affected by the looting, damage, store closings losing business had absolutely nothing to do with the death of Michael.

Exactly - peaceful protest is one thing, but rioting and looting is another. It shows the true character of most of the people in the neighborhood.