Incident yesterday at Ben's Loan in Renton

[gogodawgs]

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When I go to the range, or shoot outdoors I am very concious of keeping a magazine loaded with self defense ammo.

When I have been shooting at Champion I take in 3 magazines with me and unload the SD ammo from only two of them. When I am finished I load them back up and re-chamber a round before leaving the range. Paranoid, sure....haha but better to be prepared.

 

[Ruby]

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1245A Defender wrote:

you should reload inside,,,
it would be a drag to get mugged in the parking lot of a gun store!
while carrying your empty gun.

I don't think Champion allows it. I suppose I could and they would never know. I will check on that the next time I am there and find out for sure what their policy is. Or I can just call them. When I was going to the plate shoot on Thursday nights, I recall one of the guys saying to load defensive rounds outside in your car. Also, when walking around the store with our guns holstered at the shoot, they had to be empty for safety.

 

[OrangeIsTrouble]

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??????????? What's the difference of reloading defensive and range ammo inside the range???? Hardly any difference in safety. Just reload your defensive rounds, slap in your mag while at the bench inside the range and reholster. Nothing wrong with that.
Walking around the store empty for "safety" just sounds ridiculous also, whoever told you that is very strange, unless you are specifically going to unholster your pistol for holster fitting or something along those lines.

And btw gogo, that's why you shot off some defensive rounds at your target before, har har har.

 

[Ruby]

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Poosharker wrote:

??????????? What's the difference of reloading defensive and range ammo inside the range???? Hardly any difference in safety. Just reload your defensive rounds, slap in your mag while at the bench inside the range and reholster. Nothing wrong with that.
Walking around the store empty for "safety" just sounds ridiculous also, whoever told you that is very strange, unless you are specifically going to unholster your pistol for holster fitting or something along those lines.

And btw gogo, that's why you shot off some defensive rounds at your target before, har har har.

I thought a few things were a little strange about the shoot, which is why I don't go any more. The way you guys do it sounds better to me.

 

[1245A Defender]

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even with an unloaded in the store policy..
nothing stops you from filling your magazine, so you can slap it in as soon as you leave the store..

 

[Ruby]

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1245A Defender wrote:

even with an unloaded in the store policy..
nothing stops you from filling your magazine, so you can slap it in as soon as you leave the store..

Gotcha, thanks. I still have a lot to learn and I appreciate everyone's advice and help. I'm not just new to OC, I am new to guns, at least hand guns. I just started shooting in January of '09. That's fairly recent compared to some of you that have probably been shooting for 10 or 20 or more years, so bear with me if I am not up to speed on some things. Plus the fact that I have often been given conflicting info from other people, then have to sort it out and see what works. Please be patient with me, as you have so far, and keep the information and advice coming. I'm learning as fast as I can!:lol:

 

[gogodawgs]

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Poosharker wrote:

??????????? What's the difference of reloading defensive and range ammo inside the range???? Hardly any difference in safety. Just reload your defensive rounds, slap in your mag while at the bench inside the range and reholster. Nothing wrong with that.
Walking around the store empty for "safety" just sounds ridiculous also, whoever told you that is very strange, unless you are specifically going to unholster your pistol for holster fitting or something along those lines.

And btw gogo, that's why you shot off some defensive rounds at your target before, har har har.

Yep. I reload and reholster at the range every visit. I do make sure I chamber my round pointed down range, but other than that there is zero difference by puting it into my holster.

 

[Bookman]

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Ruby wrote:

1245A Defender wrote:

you should reload inside,,,
it would be a drag to get mugged in the parking lot of a gun store!
while carrying your empty gun.

I don't think Champion allows it. I suppose I could and they would never know. I will check on that the next time I am there and find out for sure what their policy is. Or I can just call them. When I was going to the plate shoot on Thursday nights, I recall one of the guys saying to load defensive rounds outside in your car. Also, when walking around the store with our guns holstered at the shoot, they had to be empty for safety.

I shoot at Champion quite a bit myself. I always reload on the line and reholster before leaving. They know it and don't have a problem with it.

 

[Aryk45XD]

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That's why I have 5 mags. I used to fill may carrymags with SD ammo, but I figured it would be better to have the first 3 rnds SD and all the others hallow point. The other mag has 3 SD rnds and all other FMJ. If I have to shoot more than 3 rnds, I want penatration and knockdown power.

 

[Ruby]

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Aryk45XD wrote:

That's why I have 5 mags. I used to fill may carrymags with SD ammo, but I figured it would be better to have the first 3 rnds SD and all the others hallow point. The other mag has 3 SD rnds and all other FMJ. If I have to shoot more than 3 rnds, I want penatration and knockdown power.

So what do you carry for SD? You say you carry your mags the first 3 rounds with SD and the rest of the rounds HP. JHP is what I carry for SD. Am I missing something here?

 

[BigDave]

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Aryk45XD wrote:

That's why I have 5 mags. I used to fill may carrymags with SD ammo, but I figured it would be better to have the first 3 rnds SD and all the others hallow point. The other mag has 3 SD rnds and all other FMJ. If I have to shoot more than 3 rnds, I want penatration and knockdown power.

I feel penetration and knockdown power is paramount and I will not accept anything less?

Is it fragmentation or ball ammo you are considering self defense ammo?

Many see fragmentation ammo as well less then effective and have issues of penetrating some heavy clothing and dry board.

My Self Defense ammo is JHP and I will accept nothing less for my self defense, when I have to use it, it has to work for what it was intended for.

 

[killchain]

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I think 1245A defender hit the nail on the head... loading mags to intimidate.

But...

I'm under the impression that if you have another gun for defense, just carry that one so you can take your newly-purchased empty gun to your car, and then load it there if you must. Personally, I like to put a few rounds down range before I use a new gun for defense.

But if it is your first gun, I suppose you could ask the clerk. If you're in a situation where walking from the door to the car is so dangerous that you absolutely must have your gun loaded right then and there for some reason... maybe you should have gotten something bigger than a pistol.

And at my local gun store, most of the guys carry and I am fairly sure if it was a huge issue, they would escort me to my car so I was at least marginally safe.

But in that case... don't buy a Kimber. You gotta break those in! :banghead:

 

[Ruby]

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Ruby wrote:

Aryk45XD wrote:

That's why I have 5 mags. I used to fill may carrymags with SD ammo, but I figured it would be better to have the first 3 rnds SD and all the others hallow point. The other mag has 3 SD rnds and all other FMJ. If I have to shoot more than 3 rnds, I want penatration and knockdown power.

So what do you carry for SD? You say you carry your mags the first 3 rounds with SD and the rest of the rounds HP. JHP is what I carry for SD. Am I missing something here?

For Aryk45XD: I am wondering what YOU use for self defense because you said that you carry your mags with the first 3 rounds with SD and the rest of the rounds HP. I am guessing from that that your first three rounds of SD are NOT HP. I am just curious as to what you consider SD. I have been taught from the beginning that JHP is for self defense. Just trying to learn here. Thanks!

 

[Ruby]

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killchain wrote:

I think 1245A defender hit the nail on the head... loading mags to intimidate.

But...

I'm under the impression that if you have another gun for defense, just carry that one so you can take your newly-purchased empty gun to your car, and then load it there if you must. Personally, I like to put a few rounds down range before I use a new gun for defense.

But if it is your first gun, I suppose you could ask the clerk. If you're in a situation where walking from the door to the car is so dangerous that you absolutely must have your gun loaded right then and there for some reason... maybe you should have gotten something bigger than a pistol.

And at my local gun store, most of the guys carry and I am fairly sure if it was a huge issue, they would escort me to my car so I was at least marginally safe.

But in that case... don't buy a Kimber. You gotta break those in! :banghead:

I suppose anything could happen anywhere, anytime. Most of the shooting I have done has been at Champion Arms. I have yet to feel unsafe walking to my car from the range. I usually reload with SD ammo before I drive out of the parking lot.

I was going to buy a Kimber, but bought a Dan Wesson Bobtail Commander. Not only did it have to be broken in, it had to be cleaned and lubricated before I could shoot it the first time, that's how tight the tolerances are. I heard that a gentleman bought the same gun shortly before I got mine and he didn't do that. Halfway throught the first box of ammo, the gun locked up tight on him. Ben's Loan and Champion Arms both told me about this; he bought the gun at Ben's and locked it up at Champion. I followed the instructions I was given and mine still shoots just fine.:celebrate
I really appreciate all the input and I appreciate that there is enough interest and caring on this forum that people do respond with helpful advice. Thanks guys!

 

[BigDave]

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I went to Champions a few years ago and that was the last time because of their policy of not having loaded weapons safely holstered.

This business of selling weapons to those who for the most part want them for self defense.
They are in it for the money but not supporting your rights to be armed and do not respect your rights to bear arms.

What amazes me is many post here about being asked to leave stores when open carrying and to a point of ranting and threatening boycotting them, and yet bend to this Gun Store same actions of not wanting you to open carry a loaded firearm.

I call it being Hippocrates and Bull Sh!t, find a range that respects your rights, they are out there.

 

[Ruby]

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This may be old news to some of you, but West Coast Armory has opened a range in Bellevue. I didn't know about it until I met Flanders007 to buy a T shirt. He told me about it. I haven't checked it out yet but plan to soon. Since we were discussing ranges.Just thought I would pass on the info.

 

[OrangeIsTrouble]

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BigDave wrote:

What amazes me is many post here about being asked to leave stores when open carrying and to a point of ranting and threatening boycotting them, and yet bend to this Gun Store same actions of not wanting you to open carry a loaded firearm.

I've never been asked, and I don't believe any of the members that I know here that frequently go to champs has ever been asked to carry empty. I OC to range and from range, never a problem.

 

[gogodawgs]

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Poosharker wrote:

BigDave wrote:

What amazes me is many post here about being asked to leave stores when open carrying and to a point of ranting and threatening boycotting them, and yet bend to this Gun Store same actions of not wanting you to open carry a loaded firearm.

I've never been asked, and I don't believe any of the members that I know here that frequently go to champs has ever been asked to carry empty. I OC to range and from range, never a problem.

Correct. As long as the firearm is holstered. There is a big sign on both doors that requires loaded firearms to remain holstered at all times. Until you are on the range.

I have spoken with the owners on this issue and they understand open carry.

 

[BigDave]

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gogodawgs wrote:

Poosharker wrote:

BigDave wrote:

What amazes me is many post here about being asked to leave stores when open carrying and to a point of ranting and threatening boycotting them, and yet bend to this Gun Store same actions of not wanting you to open carry a loaded firearm.

I've never been asked, and I don't believe any of the members that I know here that frequently go to champs has ever been asked to carry empty. I OC to range and from range, never a problem.

Correct. As long as the firearm is holstered. There is a big sign on both doors that requires loaded firearms to remain holstered at all times. Until you are on the range.

I have spoken with the owners on this issue and they understand open carry.

It appears they have changed things over the last few years and that is great.
I have heard of other ranges that will not allow their customers to carry to their indoor range and that is a shame.

I stand corrected and noted the range is a good indoor range and would have visited again if their old policy was not in effect at that time.

 

[Aryk45XD]

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Sorry about the wait. I use fragmentation rounds (SD). With urban environments and children around me, I like the idea of not going though walls just in case.