Handgun Registration Repeal question

[fozzy71]

Ahem, I was referring to the NEW definition, stating that any "firearm" with an OAL of 26" or less is a pistol. If said firearm has a shoulder stock (folding or not), then it's an SBR. According to Michigan law.

Nothing has changed for the pistols under 26". That is exactly the way it has always been. What changed was the definition of the 'michigan pistols' between 26 and 30 inches.

 

[stainless1911]

What has changed is the interplay between the state and federal laws. What it means, is that a pistol in Michigan has to be a pistol, and the shorter rifles (by federal standards) 26-30" OAL, can no longer be carried under our CPL laws. The result, is that options and some freedoms have been lost.

 

[detroit_fan]

What has changed is the interplay between the state and federal laws. What it means, is that a pistol in Michigan has to be a pistol, and the shorter rifles (by federal standards) 26-30" OAL, can no longer be carried under our CPL laws. The result, is that options and some freedoms have been lost.

it also means that now you don't have to have a cpl or pp to buy rifles that are 26"-30"anymore, and you don't have the register them either.

 

[HKcarrier]

Super Trucker is ranting about, and you were also discussing, the MI Pistol changes which have already become law and go into effect by 1/1/13.

WRONG

MI Pistols are now considered rifles. The definition for SBR/SBS has not changed and MI Pistols do not suddenly fall under that definition. They simply can't be carried under the authority of your CPL like they could before.




Give it a rest. MI Pistols are gone and we now follow the federal definition of a pistol like the 49 other states. The bill has passed already and you ranting about it won't change anything.

Wait, wait, wait.. these threads always freak me out... just for clarification, someone's already registered Mi Pistol is GOOD TO GO as in GRANDFATHERED IN, correct?!?!


Also, we just need to change the law so that people with CPL can carry loaded rifles. (now I'm going to be called a statist or a gun control freak because I"m not caring about the rest of the non-CPL holders... which is not true... baby steps)

 

[fozzy71]

Wait, wait, wait.. these threads always freak me out... just for clarification, someone's already registered Mi Pistol is GOOD TO GO as in GRANDFATHERED IN, correct?!?!....

Yes, but you need to be able to prove that it is/was indeed registered before 1/1/13 (i.e. carry a copy of the pp/ri-060 with you).

This is a bit of a grey area and up for debate right now as to whether or not you can still carry it under authority of your CPL if/when they repeal registration for pistols. I don't own a MI Pistol currently (considering buying one still) but if I owned one that was registered before 1/1/13 I personally would not carry it under the authority of my CPL any longer if they repeal all pistol registration.

 

[Ezerharden]

How many security guards died or were severely hurt at work last year, now how about delivery people. I think you are comparing apples to watermelons.

Actually the problem causing most security officers to die or become severely hurt is that the wear a uniform, and sadly most are not armed due to insurance liability issues that the clients don't want to pay extra to cover. A tad bit different than a scrap yard, although I did cover a contract at one of those for a few months, and the biggest threat I had was the raccoons. Only had a few trespassers at night who left rather quickly when they saw that there was security there. I am still trying to understand what threat you are faced with that a regular pistol will not handle. Do your hijackers wear body armor?

 

[stainless1911]

Wait, wait, wait.. these threads always freak me out... just for clarification, someone's already registered Mi Pistol is GOOD TO GO as in GRANDFATHERED IN, correct?!?!

Yes, but you need to be able to prove that it is/was indeed registered before 1/1/13 (i.e. carry a copy of the pp/ri-060 with you).

This is a bit of a grey area and up for debate right now as to whether or not you can still carry it under authority of your CPL if/when they repeal registration for pistols. I don't own a MI Pistol currently (considering buying one still) but if I owned one that was registered before 1/1/13 I personally would not carry it under the authority of my CPL any longer if they repeal all pistol registration.

Im with Fozzy here, I wouldn't try it either.

 

[TheQ]

Im with Fozzy here, I wouldn't try it either.

Nah. Just buy a regular rifle and saw it down to 26" exactly, right?

 

[stainless1911]

Nah. Just buy a regular rifle and saw it down to 26" exactly, right?

If registration could be proven that would be one thing. The trouble is, as Al correctly indicated, is that michigan law requires the weapon to be less than 26" in length. You could cut it down to 25.9" but that would put you in violation of the federal infringements.

 

[HKcarrier]

Yes, but you need to be able to prove that it is/was indeed registered before 1/1/13 (i.e. carry a copy of the pp/ri-060 with you).

This is a bit of a grey area and up for debate right now as to whether or not you can still carry it under authority of your CPL if/when they repeal registration for pistols. I don't own a MI Pistol currently (considering buying one still) but if I owned one that was registered before 1/1/13 I personally would not carry it under the authority of my CPL any longer if they repeal all pistol registration.

Yeah, that's what I figured... a person could goto the cop shop and get a copy of their registration there and keep it with the rifle.... As far as what to do after registration is gone... hmmm... that's a toughie. Does sound like a way to get into a court battle.... maybe worse.

Thanks Fozzie

 

[SpringerXDacp]

If registration could be proven that would be one thing. The trouble is, as Al correctly indicated, is that michigan law requires the weapon to be less than 26" in length. You could cut it down to 25.9" but that would put you in violation of the federal infringements.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/publicact/pdf/2012-PA-0242.pdf

(e) “Pistol” means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 26 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm​

that by its construction and appearance conceals itself as a firearm.

 

[Big Gay Al]

If registration could be proven that would be one thing. The trouble is, as Al correctly indicated, is that michigan law requires the weapon to be less than 26" in length. You could cut it down to 25.9" but that would put you in violation of the federal infringements.

As SpringerXD pointed out, it's 26" or less for a MI pistol. If you have a rifle with a folding stock, that, when the stock is folded, measures 26" exactly, then you're safe, since ATFE measures with the stock unfolded. But if it's 25.9" with the stock folded, then you have a Michigan SBR, and you're in deep do-do.

 

[SpringerXDacp]

As SpringerXD pointed out, it's 26" or less for a MI pistol. If you have a rifle with a folding stock, that, when the stock is folded, measures 26" exactly, then you're safe, since ATFE measures with the stock unfolded. But if it's 25.9" with the stock folded, then you have a Michigan SBR, and you're in deep do-do.

Thus, why we have GD&T (Geometric Dimensioning & Tolerancing). From an engineering standpoint, 26 inches is doable, but only on paper. In the real world, 26.1, for example, does not equal exactly 26 inches. Only a fool would attempt to manufacture a firearm to be the specific length (compliant) as described by state law.

 

[stainless1911]

Only a fool would attempt to manufacture a firearm to be the specific length (compliant) as described by state law.

Why is that? We do live in a modern society capable of measuring and manufacturing very precise things all the time.

Take the word firearm out of your sentence, and leave it blank, insert whatever you want in the blank, and see if it still makes sense.

Only a fool would attempt to manufacture a _______ to be the specific length

 

[Ezerharden]

Why is that? We do live in a modern society capable of measuring and manufacturing very precise things all the time.

Take the word firearm out of your sentence, and leave it blank, insert whatever you want in the blank, and see if it still makes sense.

Only a fool would attempt to manufacture a _______ to be the specific length

I think what he is getting at by specifically stating firearm is the fact that manufacturing a dowel rod .1 inches over spec won't land you in jail.

 

[stainless1911]

It should.

 

[SpringerXDacp]

Why is that? We do live in a modern society capable of measuring and manufacturing very precise things all the time.

Take the word firearm out of your sentence, and leave it blank, insert whatever you want in the blank, and see if it still makes sense.

Only a fool would attempt to manufacture a _______ to be the specific length

Not at all trying to be argumentative Stainless, but when you earn your engineering degree, get back with me.

For now, as I attempted to point out, 26.1 inches does not equal 26 inches or does 26.01, or 26.001.

 

[stainless1911]

I dont need an engineering degree to know that something can be made to a specific length consistently. A firearm is no different.

 

[SpringerXDacp]

I dont need an engineering degree to know that something can be made to a specific length consistently. A firearm is no different.

No offense, whatsoever, but you have a lot to learn Stainless. Do not attempt such a thing as to manufacture/create a firearm to exacly 26 inches.

 

[stainless1911]

I dont have the necessary tools or experience to do such a thing. Many others do. Consider the precision required in things like engines, computers, firearms and many other items. Saying that it cannot be done is naive.