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Concealed carry in stores and shops with "No Weapons" signs

ScottE

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
140
Location
Minnesota
Back in 2003, there were a lot of establishments that had those signs up. Now days it's hard to find a place with those signs. Another benefit to CC, at least in MN is that we can ignore those signs. We only have to leave if asked, and of course if you CC, they will never ask. :)
 

wrightme

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Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Back in 2003, there were a lot of establishments that had those signs up. Now days it's hard to find a place with those signs. Another benefit to CC, at least in MN is that we can ignore those signs. We only have to leave if asked, and of course if you CC, they will never ask. :)
CO residents don't even need a CC permit to ignore the signs. They don't carry the weight of law. They only have to leave if asked also.
 

wrightme

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Oct 19, 2008
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Fallon, Nevada, USA
Hmmm. I'm curious.

If I have a business, let's say it's a restaurant, and I have a sign saying "No Weapons Allowed", it's is argued that it's unConstitutional.
On the other hand, if I have a sign that says "No Child Molesters Allowed", what is that?
It isn't unconstitutional for a business to place a sign stating 'No Weapons Allowed.' It IS a policy statement, showing that the business in question isn't a full supporter of the 2nd Amendment of that Constitution; though such business is within their Rights to make that First Amemdment-protected speech.

Logan5 said:
Considering what happened in Aurora and the theatre shooting, is a restaurant staffed better and more clearly than a theatre or not? I would think so.
Even then, should I make a rule just for you and your friends that disregards my preferences in hopes that maybe you are there constant enough to prevent such a shooting from happening in my restaurant?
Considering what happened in Aurora, a smart business owner should conclude that it is simply idiotic to ban firearms, as the criminals will ignore that prohibition, and the law-abiding citizens who want to legally be able to defend themselves, will NOT be at that business.
Logan5 said:
jdholmes, explain to me why you feel that a business cannot decide who can or can not enter.

I'm not picking a fight, I just want to understand where you are coming from.
It doesn't seem to matter that you aren't picking a fight. Someone who wants one, will view a different opinion that way anyway.....as shown above.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...If I have a business, let's say it's a restaurant, and I have a sign saying "No Weapons Allowed", it's is argued that it's unConstitutional.
On the other hand, if I have a sign that says "No Child Molesters Allowed", what is that?...

I would not argue that it is unconstitutional. The Bill of Rights protects us from the government, not from each other. I personally am annoyed when gun rights advocates throw the 2A in people's faces. All it does is weaken it for what it was really designed to do.

Interestingly, you cannot have a sign saying "No Blacks" or "No Jews." I like to think we are all okay with that being against the law, and with classes of people being protected civil rights. Being armed is not a protected civil right when it comes to private property and their ability to trespass members of the public, even from businesses which are normally open to the public.

After all, where would we draw the line? You have the right to wear cut-off jeans and a wifebeater shirt out in public, right? And when it comes to turning off the public sidewalk and entering a private business, Wal-Mart chooses not to bar you entry based on such an appearance. But some of the places that I hang out in the evenings will bar you entry for such attire. Should that be illegal? I say of course not, and I often choose such places because of such exclusion policies.

Now, a sign posting no weapons is often done out of ignorance. Education is our best tool, and one of our best forms of education is the OC community, bring normalization back to the carrying of holstered firearms in public, and doing so with respect and a nice appearance. Another is being active in writing letters to businesses, telling them why they lost our business, and briefly giving the facts about firearms in public and where they can go for more information.
 

Logan 5

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Apr 16, 2012
Messages
696
Location
Utah
Coincidentally, the LDS First Presidency has made a public statement about no firearms allowed inside their churches. And since people get far more personal in there than they get in a store....

Should we boycott the LDS, then? What about the members of this forum that are LDS?

...just saying.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Aug 7, 2012
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Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
Coincidentally, the LDS First Presidency has made a public statement about no firearms allowed inside their churches. And since people get far more personal in there than they get in a store....

Should we boycott the LDS, then? What about the members of this forum that are LDS?

...just saying.

Absolutely.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Coincidentally, the LDS First Presidency has made a public statement about no firearms allowed inside their churches. And since people get far more personal in there than they get in a store...

Remember that in UT, carrying in the LDS church is breaking the law as they are on public record as a no-carry zone, and churches are allowed to do that with force of law in UT.

A store does not prohibit with force of law, like a church (or private residence) can.

I doubt this applies in CO, but I see you were from UT, so I wanted to make sure we added the info.
 
Last edited:

Logan 5

Regular Member
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Apr 16, 2012
Messages
696
Location
Utah
That may be so, Mac. But look at it from the property/business owners stance- If it is asked/told by sign no weapons allowed, isn't it "rude" to ignore the sign?
If you walk into a restaurant and flip the finger, what response do you expect?
If you walk into church and use the Lord's name in vain, what kind of response do you expect?
If you walk into a maternity ward telling dead baby jokes, what kind of response do you expect?

Is it unConstitutional to say "no weapons allowed"? Of course it's not. It could be the culture the owner is from. It could be the owner lost a family member to gun-related violence and expresses it this way. Maybe it's because the owner's son or daughter works there and is a felon. Or perhaps they, such as I, love guns immensely, but simply don't want guns present.

It is only unConstitutional if it's imposed by the government. Of course there are exceptions, but that's if we go into details. Details are for case-specific events that have happened already.
 

mobiushky

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
830
Location
Alaska (ex-Colorado)
Colorado. Signs carry no force of law. At best they can ask you to leave. If you refuse, you are trespassing and LEO's will come to greet you.

CC in a place of business that has a sign is no more rude than walking into a restaurant that you don't really like without being an ass about it. If you don't like it, but you keep your mouth shut etc, they never know and have no reason to be offended. Now if you walk in and loudly proclaim "HEY! I"M CARRYING A GUN!!!" well, you're an idiot. But, then you are also being rude the same way you would be if you walked in flipping off everyone and screaming at the manager. They'd probably ask you to leave in either case also. But in either case you haven't broken any laws.

It's by no means unconstitutional for the private business to post a no weapons sign. They have the right. Just as you can choose to go to a competitor and spend your money elsewhere.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
That may be so, Mac. But look at it from the property/business owners stance- If it is asked/told by sign no weapons allowed, isn't it "rude" to ignore the sign? ....

My personal opinion is yes, actually. I only brought up a matter of law. I agree with overtly following the wishes of private property owners.
 

Beau

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
672
Location
East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
Yes, it's rude to go against the wishes of a business owner. It's extra super special rude to do it blatantly.

No, it's not illegal to violate the wishes of a business owner.

If a business owner has a rule I don't agree with I will do my best to avoid giving them my business. If for some reason I must patronize this business I will determine if I will disarm before going in at that time.
 

wrightme

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Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Partially correct. You break the law if you CC without a permit. If you enter a building while CCing that's posted "No Firearms," you are not breaking the law, as the law doesn't specifically cover that. It does cover if you refuse to leave a privately-owned business after being asked to do so. That's trespassing.

In the Colorado section of www.handgunlaw.us : Do "No Guns" signs have the force of law? The answer is YES. My understanding of a YES answer is that a person could be charged with trespassing if found armed without first having to be told to leave the premise.

Is handgunlaw.us wrong? Is my understanding wrong? Please explain with references .

PS: I understand what "concealed" means practically speaking.

I stand corrected! According to 18-12-214 and 18-4-504, you are correct. If it's posted "no firearms," it's criminal trespass merely to enter.

A lot of people here will argue otherwise. I let them sway my opinion.
It appears that the handgunlaw.us website has corrected their previous misinformation...

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

Do “No Gun Signs” Have the Force of Law?
“NO”

Click Here to read an article contributed to Handgunlaw.us by Timothy J. Priebe, Esq. on “No Gun Signs” in Colorado.
Note: Handgunlaw.us believes when you come across a business that is posted that you not just walk away.
That business needs to know that they lost your business because of their “No Gun” sign. Giving them a “No Firearms = No Money” card would do just that. You can print
free“No Firearms = No Money” cards by going Here

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/COShouldIStayOrShouldIGo.pdf

2/28/13

Do Gun Signs Have the Force of Law section updated with article by attorney added.
 

Beau

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
672
Location
East of Aurora, Colorado, USA
At first I was all :uhoh: great necro thread resurrection.

Then after rereading a lot of the thread I was all :banghead:

Then I was about to exit stage :arrow: thinking I don't even care what's been added.

Then I read the new post anyway and I was all :banana:

But now I'm all :cry: because this won't change anything. People will continue to believe what they want to. Their beliefs are constructed to fit their personal agenda and laws be dammed they'll make up their own rules and call them "common law" even though common law doesn't exist as stated in actual statute.

So now I am back to being :uhoh: and :banghead: and :cry:.

But then again, what do I care. I'm just going to continue to be a :monkeybecause Jesus loves me.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong and explain how I just broke the forum rules. I'm probably also a troll and a name caller.

I have an :idea:, wait, nope.
 
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