Carry Ammo?

[Hawkflyer]

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Pa. Patriot wrote:

casullshooter wrote:

I read an article by a Criminal Defense Atty. in which he said to NEVER use handloads for carry ammo...

This "professional" advice has been around forever.

However, I can not find, and not for lack of asking and looking, one single case where handloads were cause for a defendant to have problems in court.
Yeah, I understand the concept, prosecuter could make a scary embellishment about how one loaded special super dealy ammo and that somehow means he was looking for trouble. blah blah blah.

BUT, again,  so far I can not find one single solitary instance of ANYTHING even close to that ever actually happening.... 

I think I'll carry whatever I feel like.  All ammo is deadly in the right hands

You can't find any because there aren't any yet.

Regards

 

[Citizen]

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Pa. Patriot wrote:

casullshooter wrote:

I read an article by a Criminal Defense Atty. in which he said to NEVER use handloads for carry ammo...

This "professional" advice has been around forever.

However, I can not find, and not for lack of asking and looking, one single case where handloads were cause for a defendant to have problems in court.
Yeah, I understand the concept, prosecuter could make a scary embellishment about how one loaded special super dealy ammo and that somehow means he was looking for trouble. blah blah blah.

BUT, again, so far I can not find one single solitary instance of ANYTHING even close to that ever actually happening....

I think I'll carry whatever I feel like. All ammo is deadly in the right hands

Several points.

1. Don'toverlook a civil suit from the crook or his survivors.

2. I don't imagine the type of ammo would be a part of the conviction records. The defendant would be convicted for manslaughter, murder, etc.

3. Also, I expect the transcript is where you will see how much trouble the type of ammunition caused the defense attorney. I wouldn't want togive a prosecutor or the other side's attorney anything they can twist and use against me.

4. Lethality should never be a desireable characteristic in a personal defense ammuntion.One wants tostop theBad Guy.

With all the premium defensive factory loads available, I recommendfinding and using one.

 

[openryan]

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I use CCI FMJ 9mm 115grain, this garbage is 6.97 a box, if they had cheaper stuff, I would shoot that, anyone that I have to shoot is not worth more than 2 cents to me anyway.

Plus when I have 16+1 and 16 spare I feel that is a sufficient amount to stop anything less than the illegal immigration problem.:quirky

 

[Citizen]

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openryan wrote:

I use CCI FMJ 9mm 115grain, this garbage is 6.97 a box, if they had cheaper stuff, I would shoot that, anyone that I have to shoot is not worth more than 2 cents to me anyway.

Plus when I have 16+1 and 16 spare I feel that is a sufficient amount to stop anything less than the illegal immigration problem.:quirky

You'll want to do a little research on the terminal ballistics of 9mm FMJ. Rather, do a little research on the number of people and police injured by shoot-throughs.

If one shoots-through, and plenty have, the old saw will apply:

"If you launched it, you own it."

 

[openryan]

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Yes, I am fully aware that it will come out the other side with enough energy to seriously injur or kill another person.

 

[openryan]

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Citizen wrote:

openryan wrote:

I use CCI FMJ 9mm 115grain, this garbage is 6.97 a box, if they had cheaper stuff, I would shoot that, anyone that I have to shoot is not worth more than 2 cents to me anyway.

Plus when I have 16+1 and 16 spare I feel that is a sufficient amount to stop anything less than the illegal immigration problem.:quirky

You'll want to do a little research on the terminal ballistics of 9mm FMJ. Rather, do a little research on the number of people and police injured by shoot-throughs.

If one shoots-through, and plenty have, the old saw will apply:

"If you launched it, you own it."

One question Citizen, I know you are very knowledgable about all this stuff.

I have a brand new smith and wesson 9mm sw9ve, can this handle +P ammo?

I assume so, but not sure...

do you know?

 

[Citizen]

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openryan wrote:

One question Citizen, I know you are very knowledgable about all this stuff.

I have a brand new smith and wesson 9mm sw9ve, can this handle +P ammo?

I assume so, but not sure...

do you know?

No. Check the owner's manual, or call S & W in the morning. I guarantee you they'll tell you real quick.

 

[openryan]

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Well, thanks anyway, I will try to give them a call, between work and everything else I always forget to get around to it

 

[Citizen]

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I checked their website. Here's the link to the technical spec's page for the 16+1 version: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=14820&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=

Since it doesn't mention +P, I'm going to take a complete guess that it isn't safe for +P.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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I am not aware of any factory handgun where the factory states that you can use +P. the only exceptions are magnums, such as .375, .44 etc, where the use of "Special" +P would be acceptable because the pressures are well below the design limits of the weapon.

If you just have to have +P in something around 9mm, why not just get a .38 super, or move to .40 cal.

Regards

 

[openryan]

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Well the gun I have sw9ve, comes in a sw40ve just chambered for a.40, i had the choice to get either one, for the same price.

When it came down to it, I opted for the 9mm because of cheaper ammunition prices, as well as recoil

Never shot a .40 before and although I cannot image its recoil I could not handle, I did not want to buy one for my first brand new gun, although I plan on getting a sw40ve within the next couple months, I did not believe it would have been a good choice for a brand new gun since it was my first one besides shooting/plinking with .22's I have shot many calibers, up to .44 but wanted a 9mm, dont ask me why

I personally, based purely on ballistics studies I have read, do not believe that the difference in wound patterns, and lethality that a .40 was so much better than a 9mm, that it warranted the higher ammunition costs.

Also, from almost every study I have read where a 9mm, .40, and .45 have been compared and only using +P ammunition, the 9mm always is in very close with the larger calibers, and many times comes up with better numbers...

But you may think differently.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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The choice of a carry weapon is a personal thing. What works for one person may not work for another. Depending on mood, need, and other factors, I alternately carry, 9mm, .45, .357, .44, or .50,. The last 3 are of course revolvers.

The point I was trying to make is that a +P gives a little more velocity in exchange for a little more punishment to the weapon, and a small difference in terminal performance. In most cases the amount of ammo run through the gun is not sufficient for +P to make a difference in the life of the gun. But with some designs, the parts have been lightened so much that it will make a difference in a very short time. This is particularly true of stock semi autos.

S&W has a reputation in this regard. Many of their designs just do not hold up to firing of high quantities of +P. The best example of this would be the 629 .44 magnums. They are very nice pistols, but they are not designed for either a lot of shooting of full power ammo or the use of heavy loads. Something like a Ruger Super Redhawk, or even a Redhawk are much more robust and can handle higher pressures.

Regards

 

[Citizen]

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Hawkflyer wrote:

I am not aware of any factory handgun where the factory states that you can use +P. the only exceptions are magnums, such as .375, .44 etc, where the use of "Special" +P would be acceptable because the pressures are well below the design limits of the weapon.

I know for sure that some Kahr and some Taurus do. I've seen it on their websites.

 

[openryan]

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Here is the owners manual for the Sigma's.

Bottom of page 12 is the information on +P -- they do not recommended on smith and wesson firearms, sounds like a CYA statement, but I do not plan on testing that.

Link:

http://gunshowonthenet.com/Gun_Manuals/Gun_Manuals5/S&W_Sigma.pdf

 

[Hawkflyer]

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It is a cya. It does not surprise me that Taurus allows this as Citizen pointed out. But I would be surprised if it applied to their pistols. In revolvers use of +P is common. There are a lot of operational issues when it comes to semi-auto pistols. If you are going to shoot much of the stuff you would want to upgrade the recoil buffer, recoil spring, and other misc parts. Once you do that you will compromise function with normal loads.

Years ago when police were only allowed to carry a .38 Special revolver, +P was the only way to get a little more bang out of the gun. Today we don't have that problem.

But the issues is the same as using some of the hotter sub machine gun 9mm ammo in your pistol. Some of that is so hot that it can damage the gun in just a few rounds. There were some reports of Beretta M9 and Taurus model 91 slides breaking from that stuff.

In any case you can gain more punch these days by moving up one caliber, and not risk damage to the weapon. You might want to look into the possibility of a caliber conversion for your sw9ve. Assuming the grip can accept a .40 S&W magazine, all you have to swap out is the slide group, recoil spring, magazine and barrel. I have not looked at that model to see if it can accommodate such a conversion, but if it can you could have both calibers on the same frame for about $250.

Regards

 

[openryan]

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I would probably just opt for the entire sw40ve, it was only 330 brand new last time I was at the gun show when I picked up my sw9ve.

But solid advice nonetheless.

Thanks!

 

[beradcee]

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My wife's S&W Airweight has +P printed on the side of the barrel...

 

[Hawkflyer]

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beradcee wrote:

My wife's S&W Airweight has +P printed on the side of the barrel...

That model is tested to +P pressures.

Regards

 

[Citizen]

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Hawkflyer wrote:

beradcee wrote:

My wife's S&W Airweight has +P printed on the side of the barrel...

That model is tested to +P pressures.

Regards

OK, Hawkflyer. How much brandy have you had this evening? Of course that model has been tested to +P pressures. That's why S & W stamped the barrel.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Citizen wrote:

Hawkflyer wrote:

beradcee wrote:

My wife's S&W Airweight has +P printed on the side of the barrel...

That model is tested to +P pressures.

Regards

OK, Hawkflyer.  How much brandy have you had this evening?  Of course that model has been tested to +P pressures.  That's why S & W stamped the barrel. 

Well... Lets see ... Got home after 8, 1 brandy per hour ... What time is it now?