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Can a police officer disarm you just for OC

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,147
Location
here nc
snippp...

Anyone want to volunteer to go check? I'm out of town until late next week, so you'd have to wait for me to do it. The public info computers are usually only open business hours (9-5, M-F).
snipp...

I'm on vacation for 2 weeks and will back on 8/26 at he earliest. I wish someone would step up and check that agencies public access computer before then so we could at least know what they're claiming happened. I, BTW, don't know anyone who works there.
My point was, I will have to go in and look at the public information specs. I know nobody there personally that I can call who could fill me in. And because it's personal and not job related I can't call there as a police officer and ask for information. I'd get in trouble with my agency for doing that. Also, because there is scant data I'll have to look
snipp...

what's so "elitists" about saying I'll have to do what anyone else could do (but apparently won't. Are you afraid you'll find out the OP is lying by omission? I'm not afraid to find out the officer was out of line).
snipp..

When I get back into town I'll go to H.C. and see what I can find out. Will be back late on the 26th, so probably won't be able to do it until Monday the 29th. How nice that some of you can cackle like hyenas on these boards yet don't have have the guts to go get the police report and see what actually happened. SP? :confused:
Then what happened?
After he said you weren't being detained did he immediately let you be on your way? Did he ask you for identification? Did you just walk away?
What happened next?
as previously stated...some no longer care or we are waiting for your return to tell us as you have promised to do in numerous posts on this thread.

ipse
 

pkbites

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Messages
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Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, ,
as previously stated...some no longer care or we are waiting for your return to tell us as you have promised to do in numerous posts on this thread.
It's going to be a bit. I was able to make some switches and get my time off extended until the Tuesday after Labor Day.

The reason I'd like some more info from the OP is that if the officer did not F.I. him and let him walk, there is probably going to be nothing in the public access data.
 

F350

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
942
Location
The High Plains of Wyoming
The officer said he received a call from a concerned resident
That is the most often lie told in America.... Right behind a woman telling her age

FOIA (or what ever your state equivalent is) all communications for that time period from the cop shop to see if he was telling the truth.

Also the standaed set under Terry is reasonable articulable suspicion
 
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James StuuStu Halford

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Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
11
Location
Hales Corners, WI
Then what happened?

After he said you weren't being detained did he immediately let you be on your way? Did he ask you for identification? Did you just walk away?

What happened next?
He continued to frisk me and Take my gun. 3 more officers showed up at this time and started asking me for identification. I did not have my wallet on me and they asked if I had my CCW. I told them that I did not have any identification on me and they told me I needed my CCW even though I was open carrying, also that it was my duty to have identification and I must have it on me. I would have loved to walk away but couldn't because they were in possession of my firearm. After them hassling me I decided to give them my name and address to get this over and done with because I wasn't sure if what they were doing was legal or not. They verified that I was a valid CCW licensee and then gave me my firearm back and let me be on my way.

I just wanted to know that if this occurs again, what actions I should take during and after the incident. I think I have the answers for the most part.
 

James StuuStu Halford

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
11
Location
Hales Corners, WI
Wisc. Stats. do not define loitering. http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/search/results?q=loitering&filter=biennium:2015&filter=doctype:statutes

Wisc. Stats. do not define profiling.http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/search/results?q=profiling&filter=biennium:2015&filter=doctype:statutes

Cops are not bound to the truth, neither are hip-hop SK8boarders.

Caps are not hats.

James S. Halford does not have a Wisconsin rap sheet.

He has beaten this rap, he has not beaten this ride, indeed, is enjoying it.

Hales Corners does define and regulate loitering
I assume you're trying to put a label on me as if I am a hoodlum or hooligan

I'm a very respectable adult that happens to enjoy one of my many hobbies that include skateboarding.

hat:
noun
a shaped covering for the head worn for warmth, as a fashion item, or as part of a uniform.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,912
Location
North Carolina
We have told you what to do if it happens again, you must not have been paying attention. Do not refuse, resist, only offer your objections, it is not worth dying over. Find a competent lawyer, and file charges if possible, and file a lawsuit. And record, record, record.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
8,147
Location
here nc
We have told you what to do if it happens again, you must not have been paying attention. Do not refuse, resist, only offer your objections, it is not worth dying over. Find a competent lawyer, and file charges if possible, and file a lawsuit. And record, record, record.

to quantify just a smidge...you were advised what activities to engage in and accomplish immediately after you mentioned the event to set precedent with hopes toward and effort to PRECLUDE the situation from happening to yourself or others in the future...

sorry, this member's empathy is now running on empty as you ask...well what to do if it occurs again...especially now those nice LE's know you and perhaps other boarders are an easy target to play games with...they will so engage in the activity as a sport or training for newbies....so enjoy!!

go well...

ipse
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,337
Location
Valhalla
"Adult" is a fine example of the Sorite's Paradox of the heap.

We may agree that a twenty-three year old is an adult. Can we agree that a 22 y.o. is an adult? Is a 21 y.o. adult? A 20 y.o., 19, 18, 17? More likely chrono-illogical maturity has nothing to do with adulthood.

Other's say that "the difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.". "Men" here perhaps being synonymous with adult.
Earning is the satisfactory result of yearning.

Boys yearn. Men earn - at least the responsible ones.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,386
Location
in front of my computer, WI
bnhcomputing said:
My suggestion:
1. File a FOIA or "Open Records" request for all information related to the incident.
2. File an official complaint against the officer(s) involved.
3. Contact Nik Clark of WCI (Wisconsin Carry, Inc.)

To try and answer your question:
No, without probable cause, the mere presence of the firearm should not be sufficient for a stop and frisk.

In the future, this is what I would do and what I would have done:
So I was attacked by LEO for no reason. LEO eventually lets me go, and with my gun.
1. Call 911 immediately after the encounter. Report the truth, you were just assaulted by a police officer. That way they WILL have records.
2. Get the officers name/badge number.
3. File an official complaint against the officer for assault.
4. Contact the DA's office. I was assaulted by LEO. I am the victim of a crime. I wish to make a statement and file a criminal complaint. (This should get an investigation going).
Yes. All of that.


.
OC for ME said:
Is OC lawful in WI? Is the mere sight of a holstered firearm RAS in WI?
Yes, and no (unless in a school zone, taxpayer-owned building, or company which sells alcohol for on-site consumption).


.
James Halford said:
The officer said he received a call from a concerned resident about a "kid" carrying a gun.
Could be a lie, and even if it were true, it's not illegal for a young adult to possess a firearm in public.


.
Although I'm 23, unfortunately I look a bit younger and for some reason can't grow a beard... I could see that I may appear "suspicious" because I wear tighter pants than a normal person (skinny jeans) and wear a flat brim hat occasionally backwards. That still does not give them any reasonable suspicion of me committing a crime, that would be considered profiling.
No, that does not make you appear "suspicious".
Some might consider it poor fashion sense :D but it's hardly suspicious.
Suspicious would be walking slowly in the rain, looking into people's houses. Or wandering a parking lot, looking into cars. Or jumping out of a stolen car & running away from police.


.
As I walked up he grabbed my left arm and told me to put my hands up as he started to disarm me of my firearm. At this time I notified the officer that I do not consent to any search and seizures and asked if I was being detained as he then stated that I wasn't.
So, they didn't say anything to you at first, just grabbed you & started stealing your property?
And you were just walking down the street?
And the officer told you that you were not being detained, even though he'd grabbed you, told you to assume the felon position, stolen your property, and other officers were arriving to reinforce his non-detention?
Any reasonable person would have felt they were being detained, so you were detained.

BTW, why did you let this person get so close to you?


.
James Halford said:
I did not have my wallet on me and they asked if I had my CCW [sic]. I told them that I did not have any identification on me and they told me I needed my CCW [sic] even though I was open carrying, also that it was my duty to have identification and I must have it on me.
:mad:
Were they stopping other pedestrians, stealing their wallets, demanding that they show a driver's license, hassling them, telling them that they had to have a driver's license on them even though they were walking?

No, you are not required to carry ID.

No, you are not required to carry your CCL (concealed carry license) if you're not:
a - carrying concealed off your own property
b - carrying a firearm in a taxpayer-owned building
c - carrying a firearm within 1000' of the edge of a school property, on taxpayer-owned property
d - carrying a firearm in a business which serves alcohol for consumption

And even then, if you don't have it the worst that can happen is a $25 fine, which is thrown out when you show up within (IIRC) 24 hours (might be 48... don't quote me on that) to the LEA that issued the ticket & show your valid CCL (it's not a CCW; that's a crime - illegal concealed carry of a weapon).

.
I just wanted to know that if this occurs again, what actions I should take during and after the incident. I think I have the answers for the most part.
During? Get film or audio if you can. Keep telling them you do not consent to any seizure or search. Keep asking why you're being detained. If they say you're not being detained, take your property and leave. If you can't take your property & leave, you're being detained.

After? File complaints with the Chief / Sheriff, IA, DA, etc.
Do FOIA requests for all documentation relating to the harassment: radio traffic, video, call logs, audio of phone call(s), copies of paperwork, emails, memos, training relating to open carry, anything you can think of that's relevant.
Get a lawyer. In the SE WI area, the most well-known & experienced in firearm rights are Mastantuono & Coffee (414-276-8662) and Tom Grieve (262-786-7100).

As someone else already said, contact Wisconsin Carry (become a member). Nik Clark, specifically. Nik @ WisconsinCarry . org
Also call in to his radio show tonight: Well-Armed Radio on BlogTalk Radio.
Find both WI Carry & WAR on Facebook, or just Google / Bing them.

We might need to have some OC walks or picnics or other educational activities in Hales Corners.
People can act on their own to do those, but Wisconsin Carry has numbers and can contact the Chief as an organization to point out that officers are putting the department & city in legal jeopardy, and get the bad acts stopped quickly.


You might also consider the following statutes, and re-think your decision not to do anything "this time".
If you don't do anything this time, they think that what they did was OK, and there will be a next time, and another person whose rights are violated.
BTW, these are just the WI laws. Federal laws also make it a felony to act "under color of law" to infringe someone's civil rights.

940.30 False imprisonment. Whoever intentionally confines or restrains another without the person's consent and with knowledge that he or she has no lawful authority to do so is guilty of a Class H felony.


946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:
(2)  In the officer's or employee's capacity as such officer or employee, does an act which the officer or employee knows is in excess of the officer's or employee's lawful authority or which the officer or employee knows the officer or employee is forbidden by law to do in the officer's or employee's official capacity;

Here's where you can look up WI laws: http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/prefaces/toc
 
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Grapeshot

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Hmm. Were you by chance in a school zone?

I can't think of any other reason in your scenario why they would have to verify that you had a valid CCL.

You do need a CCL to carry (even openly) 1000 feet from a school. You can thank this schmuck for that.
Correction: within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
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White Oak Plantation
I assume you're trying to put a label on me as if I am a hoodlum or hooligan

I'm a very respectable adult that happens to enjoy one of my many hobbies that include skateboarding.

hat:
noun
a shaped covering for the head worn for warmth, as a fashion item, or as part of a uniform.
I recommend that you return to pursuits other than posting here on this topic.

You stated that the incident was recorded. Post #15

You have stated that you will not seek a redress. Post #70

It appears that the cop(s) may be required to file a official record of the incident...a MPD requirement that may not be applicable to Hales Corners.
 

Grapeshot

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Hmm. Were you by chance in a school zone?

I can't think of any other reason in your scenario why they would have to verify that you had a valid CCL.

You do need a CCL to carry (even openly) 1000 feet from a school. You can thank this schmuck for that.
Correction: within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
Thank you for reminding us to never take legal advice or instruction from a cop.
I have posted neither.
My clarification was intended to do just that = clarify. The was no design to insult, attack, or put down.

While I do not take legal advice (instruction maybe) from officers, both this site and myself endorse hearing from all members of our society w/o regard to their employment. We even have Forum Rules (see #6 and #9) that relate to this.
 

OC for ME

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... I just want to know what to do the next time it occurs. ...
You did exactly what you were supposed to do...it's right there in your opening post.

I responded that I do not consent to any search or seizures and asked if I was being detained (which he said no I wasn't).
What more is there to do the...next time.

The goal is to "educate" LE to not subject the citizenry to the acts that you claim you were subjected to...you are willing to, apparently, enable LE to deprive you (and others) of your rights in the future.
 

Law abider

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Aug 17, 2011
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Ellsworth Wisconsin
Something like this did happen to me in the Freedom gas station in Prescott a number of years ago. The cashier refused to let me purchase alcohol for my them 18yr old bec she thought it was a sting operation. we left and went to another business and got one can of beer. A short while later my chief buddy who was a patrol Sargent back then called me and came over. We went down to the gas station together in his cruiser bec the cashier had accused me of flashing my gun. I asked him to request the security tapes. He lectured her about violating my constitutional rights bec what she said did not happen. She was fired from her job.
However the difference is that I was in Prescott where all the cops know me also. In your case you were a stranger in a bigger city or suburbs so they had to be cautious. Follow the advice given in your post.
 

solus

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here nc
Something like this did happen to me in the Freedom gas station in Prescott a number of years ago. The cashier refused to let me purchase alcohol for my them 18yr old bec she thought it was a sting operation. we left and went to another business and got one can of beer. A short while later my chief buddy who was a patrol Sargent back then called me and came over. We went down to the gas station together in his cruiser bec the cashier had accused me of flashing my gun. I asked him to request the security tapes. He lectured her about violating my constitutional rights bec what she said did not happen. She was fired from her job.
However the difference is that I was in Prescott where all the cops know me also. In your case you were a stranger in a bigger city or suburbs so they had to be cautious. Follow the advice given in your post.
so..., you leaned against the elite to do your bidding. you are more guilty then cashier as you used the illicit backdoor of the color of law to pursue your personal vengeance vice which resulted in personal loss of revenue and suffering so you could satisfy your ego.

unbelievable

ipse
 

Law abider

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Ellsworth Wisconsin
so..., you leaned against the elite to do your bidding. you are more guilty then cashier as you used the illicit backdoor of the color of law to pursue your personal vengeance vice which resulted in personal loss of revenue and suffering so you could satisfy your ego.

unbelievable

ipse
Feeling jealous?? LOL No I used my brain and got the now Chief to look at the security tapes. She had called 911 saying a terrorist who speaks English well with a gun was on the loose. Deputies from Washington county, MN Pierce county WI and the entire police dept of Prescott showed up. She gave a wrong description of the car, which by the way, coincidentally was just driving by. It was stopped and the driver pulled out at gunpoint. Everyone was confused. She got fired for being a liability to the company. So I saved them mega bucks. I mean the guy pulled out at gun point could have sued everyone involved.
 

solus

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Feeling jealous?? LOL No I used my brain and got the now Chief to look at the security tapes. She had called 911 saying a terrorist who speaks English well with a gun was on the loose. Deputies from Washington county, MN Pierce county WI and the entire police dept of Prescott showed up. She gave a wrong description of the car, which by the way, coincidentally was just driving by. It was stopped and the driver pulled out at gunpoint. Everyone was confused. She got fired for being a liability to the company. So I saved them mega bucks. I mean the guy pulled out at gun point could have sued everyone involved.
fortunately, my first response didn't post...

feeling jealous over my activities causing an individual to lose their livelihood ~ never happen...never will!!

but wait, your story has morf'd...

let's see a number of years ago the term 'terrorist' was used by JQPublic in reference to someone carrying a firearm?

let's see how did you know there was a man with a gun called against you after you tried to buy a beer?

let's see the repercussions in MN for calling in a bogus 911 call is termination by their employer? hummm, now how on earth did said employer hear about it? oh wait, never mind i remember you caused the rucus.

finally, what liability could/would/might have resulted when the nice LEs in this country have wounded/killed community citizens throughout our county...not to mention pulling its citizens from their vehicle at gun point and putting the citizens on the ground arms/legs spread.

so to have the audacity to say the employer was spared the law suit is absolutely ridiculous!!

ipse
 
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