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Can a police officer disarm you just for OC

solus

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If the OP is being truthful and left nothing out, I too see no criminal cases. An officer grabbing an arm in an escort hold (which is what it sounds happened) is not battery, even if the officer had no RS to detain him. Instead of debating that it is, I insist on a cite where an officer using an escort hold was charged with battery. (Wisconsin doesn't have "assault").

What he might have is a case for illegal detention and illegal seizure. Both are serious charges.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
i would like a cite where a nice LE out of the blue can exercise an 'escort hold' on JQPublic w/o RAS/PC!!

now, the only escort hold i would agree to is if i had already proffered my currency to the nice young lady. :uhoh:

ipse
 
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pkbites

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i would like a cite where a nice LE out of the blue can exercise an 'escort hold' on JQPublic w/o RAS/PC!!

This is where the illegal detention/seizure comes in. But I know of no case where it was considered a battery.

The OP is new with few posts. Is it possible there are elements to the story we have not heard?
 

WalkingWolf

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This is where the illegal detention/seizure comes in. But I know of no case where it was considered a battery.

The OP is new with few posts. Is it possible there are elements to the story we have not heard?
If the detention is illegal then contact IS battery. There is a misconception that LEO's have god like powers. They have no powers on the law abiding, and must respect the same laws unless there is RAS/PC. The problem is the corruption in the court system that does not hold the officers accountable.
 

davidmcbeth

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If the OP is being truthful and left nothing out, I too see no criminal cases. An officer grabbing an arm in an escort hold (which is what it sounds happened) is not battery, even if the officer had no RS to detain him. Instead of debating that it is, I insist on a cite where an officer using an escort hold was charged with battery. (Wisconsin doesn't have "assault").

What he might have is a case for illegal detention and illegal seizure. Both are serious charges.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
I meant against him...but I agree on the other side.
 

WalkingWolf

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Says who?

I didn't ask for your opinion. I asked for a cite showing where a police officer was charged with battery for using an escort hold.
And I did not ask for your opinion, that plays both ways. A police officer is subject to all the laws that private citizens are, unless there are circumstances that excuse a crime. The only question is touching another person in an aggressive manner is battery. And the answer is yes.

It does not matter whether somebody was charged, billions of crimes are committed where nobody is caught or charged. Does not change that they are crimes.
 

OC for ME

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18 USC 242?

I like that, escort hold. I wonder how a on-duty cop would react if he were subjected to a "escort hold?"
943.32 Robbery. (1)  Whoever, with intent to steal, takes property from the person or presence of the owner by either of the following means is guilty of a Class E felony:
(a) By using force against the person of the owner with intent thereby to overcome his or her physical resistance or physical power of resistance to the taking or carrying away of the property; or
(b) By threatening the imminent use of force against the person of the owner or of another who is present with intent thereby to compel the owner to acquiesce in the taking or carrying away of the property.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/943/III/32
I suspect that the Op is not gunna do a darned thing...just suck it up and move on.
 

solus

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18 USC 242?

I like that, escort hold. I wonder how a on-duty cop would react if he were subjected to a "escort hold?"I suspect that the Op is not gunna do a darned thing...just suck it up and move on.
kudos to the Newbie OP, and not to disparage their alleged tale of misfortune, but 39 posts towards something that has not been confirmed nor will i'm sure, is quite the feat!

right amount of buz words too.

ipse
 

pkbites

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I like that, escort hold.

An escort hold is a trained technique, and it is required training in the state of Wisconsin for LEOs. An escort hold can be used on someone who is not being detained or in custody. It is not battery no matter how much some of you babble it is.


I suspect that the Op is not gunna do a darned thing
I suspect the OP left out some details. I doubt the officer was silent as to why he was doing what he was doing.
I wonder what would be found if one of us checked the public information computer at that PD, which documents all police contacts. Did this contact even happen? Was the OP doing something else as well, justifying the contact? Was he carrying in a school zone which does require a CCL even for OC? Or was it as he posted and the officer was in fact in the wrong?

Anyone want to volunteer to go check? I'm out of town until late next week, so you'd have to wait for me to do it. The public info computers are usually only open business hours (9-5, M-F).
 

WalkingWolf

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The escort position is used on people who are passive and not physically resisting the police officer.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=144867

Any hold on any citizen that is not associated with an arrest or detention is illegal. NO matter how you try to justify it, it is just not legal to grab people for no reason. People who are not physically resisting what? If no detention, or arrest what could they possibly be resisting? Claiming that it is legal, and justified is statist BS. LE has no power over the law abiding, otherwise we would be in Nazi Germany.

An escort hold is a trained technique, and it is required training in the state of Wisconsin for LEOs. An escort hold can be used on someone who is not being detained or in custody. It is not battery no matter how much some of you babble it is.




I suspect the OP left out some details. I doubt the officer was silent as to why he was doing what he was doing.
I wonder what would be found if one of us checked the public information computer at that PD, which documents all police contacts. Did this contact even happen? Was the OP doing something else as well, justifying the contact? Was he carrying in a school zone which does require a CCL even for OC? Or was it as he posted and the officer was in fact in the wrong?

Anyone want to volunteer to go check? I'm out of town until late next week, so you'd have to wait for me to do it. The public info computers are usually only open business hours (9-5, M-F).
 

solus

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let's be clear shall we pkbites, no matter what the nice LE is screaming...they attempt an 'escort hold' on this individual, when i get to the hospital, i will be discussing the attack with the sheriff's office and pressing charges. if the attack was done by a deputy, then the SP will be the listener.

a screaming LE tells me they have lost control of themselves as well as the situation and is dangerous to the citizen they are involved with and in the words of the court(s) the citizen should fear for their life.

the arrogance you are exhibited is beyond belief.

CoL. doubt it.

ipse
 

pkbites

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the arrogance you are exhibited is beyond belief.
And the ignorance and blind faith you are exhibiting is staggering. The OP has given few details and since bolted. There is no evidence that the officer used unreasonable force, was screaming/yelling, etc.. And neither you nor anyone else has cited a single case where an officer was charged with anything in Wisconsin for using an escort hold.

Meanwhile, Mr. Halford is laughing "dance puppets, dance!" If he's not going to do anything about it there's no reason not to give more details and post any recordings he has.

I'm on vacation for 2 weeks and will back on 8/26 at he earliest. I wish someone would step up and check that agencies public access computer before then so we could at least know what they're claiming happened.

I, BTW, don't know anyone who works there.
 

solus

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And the ignorance and blind faith you are exhibiting is staggering. The OP has given few details and since bolted. There is no evidence that the officer used unreasonable force, was screaming/yelling, etc.. And neither you nor anyone else has cited a single case where an officer was charged with anything in Wisconsin for using an escort hold.

Meanwhile, Mr. Halford is laughing "dance puppets, dance!" If he's not going to do anything about it there's no reason not to give more details and post any recordings he has.

I'm on vacation for 2 weeks and will back on 8/26 at he earliest. I wish someone would step up and check that agencies public access computer before then so we could at least know what they're claiming happened.

I, BTW, don't know anyone who works there.
sorry, might read my other thread posts about the OP's veracity.

sorry, pkbites' previous quote: I doubt the officer was silent as to why he was doing what he was doing!! unquote so sorry you brought up the concept the officer wasn't silent.

sorry, pkbites' previous quote: An escort hold is a trained technique, and it is required training in the state of Wisconsin for LEOs. An escort hold can be used on someone who is not being detained or in custody. unquote, sorry it is part of the nice LE's tactical training and i am sure under their QI, no supervisor is going write someone up for it.

sorry, dancing puppets...see my first sentence.

the arrogance is shining mighty brightly pkbites...especially with the comment...'i do not know anybody who works there.' really, now that is an elitists' mentality if i every saw one...you can go where mere citizens fear to tread...rof..

ipse
 
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Citizen

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Says who?

I didn't ask for your opinion. I asked for a cite showing where a police officer was charged with battery for using an escort hold.
False premise: that government gets to define the violation of a right.

Readers, the only possible person who can say what your rights are is you. If you consult public opinion--or worse, government--you've lost the argument before it even begins. The public are full of people who haven't the faintest idea of the price paid to obtain rights, or their value. Or, worse, think government and you owes them something. And, government is always willing to reduce or sidestep rights because rights are not necessary to what government wants to do; rights are an impediment to government.

So, the only person who can decide what your rights are is you. And, here's the hitch: you've got to be careful. And, responsible. Because in declaring your own rights, you are declaring--or denying--the other guy's rights. So, you don't get to just sound off; you've got to give it a lot of thought.
 

pkbites

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'i do not know anybody who works there.'
My point was, I will have to go in and look at the public information specs. I know nobody there personally that I can call who could fill me in. And because it's personal and not job related I can't call there as a police officer and ask for information. I'd get in trouble with my agency for doing that. Also, because there is scant data I'll have to look through all the FI stops over the past couple weeks to find one that matches the OP's scenario/name. Officers usually fill out a [usually yellow] FI card that gets turned in at the end of shift and the info goes into the computer. This information is accessible by the general public unless it involves a minor or an active investigation.

what's so "elitists" about saying I'll have to do what anyone else could do (but apparently won't. Are you afraid you'll find out the OP is lying by omission? I'm not afraid to find out the officer was out of line).
 
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