Ask LEO a question

[LEO 229]

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swatpro911 wrote:

when cops chek my license plate and I have CWP permit what information shows up in their screen? Any outstanding traffic tickets? Lawsuits?Non payment record etc?

Yes... I haveaSig 229 and it shoots great!

It really depends on the software use by that department. Running the tag will show your vehicle details and the owner information. The owner information then needs to be ran separately. Other departments will run the owner info automatically after displaying the tag info.

When the owner info is ran it checks NCIC (Nationwide) and VCIN (Virginia)and the local jurisdiction for warrants. It also pulls up CWP, Sex Offender, Missing Adult/Child, and any special notes.

There is nothing displayed for prior tickets, lawsuits, or non payments.

 

[LEO 229]

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HankT wrote:

Do you think that Officer Clodfelter (the aggressive hothead) and Officer Pannell (his supervisor) will "get it" now?

...will these two learn the correct view of things? And accept it? Or will they, perhaps, just continue operating with theirmisfounded beliefs and attitudes about the law and simply stifle their impulses?

Is it possible that they could be adaptable enough to change their minds--with or without serious penalties that may result from the internal investigation?

Oh Ya... They get it now. I am sure they will not make this mistake again. This was not good for their department and they did some other violations after the fact. Honest mistakes happen and once your called on the carpet.... You better not do it again.

They may not like it.. but OCis allowed by law... they will adapt and move on. Guarantee the entire department know right now about OC.

 

[danbus]

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Another question, why don't LEOs (from what I've seen) wear seatbelts?

 

[LEO 229]

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This is a web page everyonemay be interested in book marking. The state police identify that OC is OK in Virginia. I have pasted a small portion.



http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Transporting.shtm

Virginia does not require firearm registration nor is it necessary to obtain a permit before carrying a firearm or other such weapon openly about the person except where prohibited by statute. Pursuant to §18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia, resident concealed handgun permits are issued by the circuit court of the jurisdiction in which the applicant resides, and nonresident concealed handgun permits are issued by the Virginia State Police.

 

[LEO 229]

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danbus wrote:

Another question, why don't LEOs (from what I've seen) wear seatbelts?

We are supposed to wear them and set the example. I always wear mine. However we are exempt according to state code while transporting a prisoner. There is also a catchall that is open to interpretation with it being "impractical."

§ 46.2-1094. Occupants of front seats of motor vehicles required to use safety lap belts and shoulder harnesses

B. This section shall not apply to:

2. Any law-enforcement officer transporting persons in custody or traveling in circumstances which render the wearing of such safety belt system impractical

 

[HankT]

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LEO 229 wrote:

Oh Ya... They get it now. I am sure they will not make this mistake again.

They may not like it.. but OCis allowed by law... they will adapt and move on. Guarantee the entire department know right now about OC.

That means that a big battle has already been won. Regardlessof the results of the internal investigation.

The responsible andcool-headed Tony's 7 and the forceful and committed showing by OC supporters Monday night in the City Council willpay big dividends.

 

[LEO 229]

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HankT wrote:

That means that a big battle has already been won. Regardlessof the results of the internal investigation.

The responsible andcool-headed Tony's 7 and the forceful and committed showing by OC supporters Monday night in the City Council willpay big dividends.

Once it hit the news... you won. Everyone knows now that the department was madeaware of the problem and it will be a long time before they do it again.

Notonly that... Other departments got a wakeup call and probably posted some educational information.

Of course.... when newrookies are hired years they not know any better unless the modify they are provided sometraining at the academy.

 

[apjonas]

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Is there a particular reason you reversed the authorship of these comments? I have indicated the correct order below. To answer your questions - my philosophy is based the experiences of others, not myself. I cannot say that I have had negative interaction such as you suggest, so sorry no story to tell. I don't want to have one and really don't need one anyway. I am merely exercising my rights and if you get annoyed...you get annoyed. You say I am lumping all LEO's together - of course. I don't know you. This is no different that you making a judgement about a citizen you don't know. We don't carry "clean, lawful, responsible citizen cards."

My suggestion of terminating contact would only apply if the encounter is consensual. If somebody resembles a suspect you are looking for - then that would be RS, wouldn't it? And please don't make me laugh - the only way for a citizen to determine the encounter status is to either ask or begin to depart. LEO's do not volunteer such information because it is not in their interests to do so (and they have no legal obligation). It is not a question of whether or not I like an individual. I simply choose not to go through an extensive analysis of whether or not I should voluntarily talk to a LEO. A LEO is not your friend. Avoid contact and if things go south, shut up and lawyer up. I used to think that such behavior was a sure sign of a guilty person. I've grown up. You get no points for "helping" the police. It really hurts me to say that. I wish it were otherwise. I think the M7 incident shows what the mindset is behind closed doors. Your ethics are what you do in the dark when you (think) nobody is watching.

P.S. As for fast and loose with the rules: Have you ever patted down (or more) someone during an investigatory stop when you had no reasonable suspicion (perhaps no suspicion at all) that he was armed? That's a 4A violation. Yet, I am sure that you would react negatively if you were told to stop or even asked why. Or having felt something that you did not believe was a weapon or contraband had him empty his pockets?


LEO 229 wrote:

apjonas LEO229 wrote:

LEO 229 APJONAS wrote:
(The following comments refer to on-foot, not in a vehicle). Oh, come on. Doyou tell people "early in the contact" the reason for the stop? Do you ever tell them whether or not they are "free to go"? Of course not. This is a standard police technique. Engage a person (for some reason) in a consensual encounter with the hopes of developing RS.

It appears you are frustrated with the police and this is probably due to a few prior negative encounters. I can appreciate your position on LEOs but you are lumping them all into one negative category when you cannot possibly have met all of them. Instead of generalizing... how about giving all of us a story about why you feel the way you do?

There are times when you do not wish to tell a citizen "You look like a rapist we are looking for." You can start out with a voluntary contact and if necessary... bump it up to an investigative stop. It is then that can advise them so they understand.

I have the only job where some people will hate you and not trust but at the same time will call 911 for help. As a LEO... It really does not matter to me it you like me. I will do the job the same way for your or anyone else. It is also a job where some people do not want you to have the ability to take any action and then complain that you did not do anything. If our hand are tied... how can we protect the community we serve?

Do we lie? We sure do!! Criminals lie to us during interviews and we are allowed to lie to them too. I am not sure how we cheat. Fast and loose with the rules?? Which ones? Scalps?? I'll Pass... We are always happy to arrest the bad guy. Should we not be? Catching a guy with 20 pounds of pot in his trunk or 5 rocks of crack.. Oh Ya! Why is that bad?

I do not take anything personal on the job and off. Just like here... I am adult enough to "let it go." I know we will not see eye to eye on everything but that is OK. We have our own opinions and I can respect that.

 

[danbus]

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§ 46.2-1094. Occupants of front seats of motor vehicles required to use safety lap belts and shoulder harnesses

B. This section shall not apply to:

2. Any law-enforcement officer transporting persons in custody or traveling in circumstances which render the wearing of such safety belt system impractical

That's too funny to me. What type of circumstance, which of course would "render the wearing of such safetly belt system, be "impractical"?

 

[ne1]

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LEO 229 wrote:

I can appreciate your position on LEOs but you are lumping them all into one negative category when you cannot possibly have met all of them. Instead of generalizing... how about giving all of us a story about why you feel the way you do?


I have the only job where some people will hate you and not trust but at the same time will call 911 for help.

You chose to be lumped into a category when you decided to put on a uniform- why do you think it is called a uniform?

The few times in my life that I have actually called for police assistance thetypical response I got was things like "There's not much we can do- it's just your word against the BG's...." I don't hate police but IMO dialing 911 is just not worth the trouble.

I have seen some LEOs on the job that were jerks

The question is, what do YOU do when these jerks are preying on the citizens whom you profess to serve? The 'blue wall of silence' is a major factor in citizens' distrust and negativity.

 

[LEO 229]

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apjonas wrote:

Is there a particular reason you reversed the authorship of these comments? I have indicated the correct order below. To answer your questions - my philosophy is based the experiences of others, not myself. I cannot say that I have had negative interaction such as you suggest, so sorry no story to tell.

You say I am lumping all LEO's together - of course. I don't know you. This is no different that you making a judgement about a citizen you don't know.

P.S. As for fast and loose with the rules: Have you ever patted down (or more) someone during an investigatory stop when you had no reasonable suspicion (perhaps no suspicion at all) that he was armed? That's a 4A violation.

Yet, I am sure that you would react negatively if you were told to stop or even asked why. Or having felt something that you did not believe was a weapon or contraband had him empty his pockets?

To answer your question... your attitude was indicative of someone who has been harassed by the police for years. That is why I believed you had some prior negative contact.

You mistrust is derived only from what you have been told and you have no first hand knowledge to speak of. It is my belief that you must be young and impressionable. You attitude towards the police is very bias and discriminatory, based entirely on second hand knowledge.

You can lump us all into one group but that does not make all LEOs bad.

Do I pat down for no reason? No. You really have the wrong idea about LEOs. I guess you need to open your mind a little and speak to some other citizens who are not cop haters. You need to decide for yourself when you actually have spoke with a few LEOson your own. Your speaking with me today.... can you honestly say that I am a bad?

I am here... and you are hear communicating with me. I have to ask.. why? What is it that you really want? Do you want to know something or just vent your frustrations about cops?

 

[LEO 229]

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ne1 wrote:

You chose to be lumped into a category when you decided to put on a uniform- why do you think it is called a uniform?

The few times in my life that I have actually called for police assistance thetypical response I got was things like "There's not much we can do- it's just your word against the BG's...." I don't hate police but IMO dialing 911 is just not worth the trouble.

I have seen some LEOs on the job that were jerks

The question is, what do YOU do when these jerks are preying on the citizens whom you profess to serve? The 'blue wall of silence' is a major factor in citizens' distrust and negativity.

Let me see if I can understand you... I will replace LEO with Doctor. Both have a uniform and are hired to help people.

If a doctor is poorly trained and misdiagnosis his patients illnesses... then under your rationalization... ALL doctors do not know what they are doing. They all deserve to be lumped intoone category identifying they are all idiots. Guilty no matter what and never given a chance to prove otherwise.

Therefore... if is the fault of the good doctor for choosing his occupation that you see him as an idiot without having first met him.

This is what I hear you saying. Is this based on the fact that when you called 911 they could not help you? Please describe what the event was and I will talk with you about it.

When I see officer conduct that is inappropriate I step in and stop it if practical. Otherwise I speak with the officer and express my concerns afterward in private.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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ne1 wrote:

You chose to be lumped into a category when you decided to put on a uniform- why do you think it is called a uniform?

The few times in my life that I have actually called for police assistance the typical response I got was things like "There's not much we can do- it's just your word against the BG's...." I don't hate police but IMO dialing 911 is just not worth the trouble.

I have seen some LEOs on the job that were jerks

The question is, what do YOU do when these jerks are preying on the citizens whom you profess to serve? The 'blue wall of silence' is a major factor in citizens' distrust and negativity.

Ne1-

I have had some personal (not second or third hand, but first hand) bad experiences with a few police Officers. But that is no excuse to paint all LEO's with some sort of wide brush and say they are all bad. I work in Law Enforcement my self, and as with society in general there are all kinds. Currently I work in a support capacity, but I also worked in game law enforcement as a LEO for a time.

You seem to demand that all Officers be absolutely perfect, have the ability to instantly recall all codes, laws, and court rulings at the drop of a question, and be able to perform at this level of perfection under the worst possible circumstances (in the street). What you are seeking does not exist in ANY field of endeavor. While people may strive for perfection, in humans it is not an attainable goal.

While it is true there are some poorly trained or even outright corrupt people in law enforcement (see todays Potomac news here in Virginia), the vast majority try to perform their duties honestly and in the best interests of the community.

Because the primary duty of any LEO is to the community and not to individuals, at times their actions may seem counter to the desires of some individuals. That has nothing to do with the Officer, and a lot to do with the boundaries of their duties.

I can't help but notice that in almost every one of your posts you seem to feel compelled to include what by my reading is a targeted personal attack concerning the ethics or truthfulness of LEO229. While that may not be your intent, that is the way it reads. I require no more than LEO229's continued patient civility toward you in this conversation to tell me that your assertions that all LEO's are bad are at best gratuitous, and at worst some sort of individual paranoia that you harbor toward authority in general.

It would be my hope that you could find it in yourself to converse on the range of subjects here in a more civil and less accusatory tone.

Regards

 

[ne1]

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The subject of this thread is Ask LEO a Question. All I have been doing is asking questions, not accusing anyone in particular- if that reads as being accusatory then it brings to mind an old saying: "If the shoe fits, wear it."

Public attitudes toward a profession are not created by my decree. Reputations are earned over years. Recent studies show that even doctors (BTW it is my observation that few doctors wear uniforms, except perhaps in surgery) have just slightly over 50% approval ratings, and that is considered a high ranking. Cops are not doctors. I can choose which doctor I want to see and refuse treatment.

I, too, like to be treated as an individual. I am an individual who feels that just because I am publicly exercising my rights as a citizen of this nation, it is not an invitation for all police to engage me in conversation and solicit my name, address, phone number, marital status, etc., etc.

When I see officer conduct that is inappropriate I step in and stop it if practical. Otherwise I speak with the officer and express my concerns afterward in private.

I submit that officers should spend more time engaging each other in conversations. Whether that will increase their prestige in the public eye remains to be seen.

 

[LEO 229]

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ne1 wrote:

Recent studies show that even doctors (BTW it is my observation that few doctors wear uniforms, except perhaps in surgery) have just slightly over 50% approval ratings, and that is considered a high ranking. Cops are not doctors. I can choose which doctor I want to see and refuse treatment.

I, too, like to be treated as an individual. I am an individual who feels that just because I am publicly exercising my rights as a citizen of this nation, it is not an invitation for all police to engage me in conversation and solicit my name, address, phone number, marital status, etc., etc.

I submit that officers should spend more time engaging each other in conversations. Whether that will increase their prestige in the public eye remains to be seen.

I do not have any knowledge on doctor approval ratings. You are advising us that even doctors are not perfect and not totally approved of either. So it would seem that there is another job outside LE where the public is not happy with someone who has chosen to help the public.

The world is not a perfect place and people must acceptthat you will never get total perfection in anything unless you do it yourself.... and then it is perfect only to your own standard. Someone else will find fault in what you do too.

And doctors do have a uniform... white or blue overcoat bearing a name tag and donning a stethoscope.

Without question... Cops are not doctors..! And contrary to what you believe... youdo not always get to choose your doctor. I submit that in an emergency... if you go to any ER you are going to get the doctor that is available.They maynotentertain the notion that you want someone else.Just like calling 911,you are going to get an availableLEO who will respond to hear what you have to say and do what can be doneto help you.

The police are not going to just walk up and start asking for your information for entertainment. Nor will they request or even care about your marital status or shoe size for that matter. How often have you been approached in the past year anyway?

In my 40 years... I have never been approached off duty and questioned about anything unless I was a suspect in a crime. The only time this everhappened was at my house while a juvenile. Each time they were justified in speaking with me.I was not the person they were looking for and that was the end of it.

Please clarify what you mean "officers should spend more time engaging each other in conversations....increase their prestige" I am not sure what this means. We talk all the time... computer to computer, car to car, on calls, on meals, and at the station. I am not sure how this would make the public feel better about us. People actually call and complain that we are "chatting" and "not fighting crime" so we cannot win either way.

 

[LEO 229]

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Hawkflyer wrote:

You seem to demand that all Officers be absolutely perfect... What you are seeking does not exist in ANY field of endeavor.

... the vast majority try to perform their duties honestly and in the best interests of the community.

I can't help but notice that in almost every one of your posts you seem to feel compelled to include what by my reading is a targeted personal attack concerning the ethics or truthfulness of LEO229.

It would be my hope that you could find it in yourself to converse on the range of subjects here in a more civil and less accusatory tone.

Well said.... Hawk

 

[cs9c1]

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LEO 229 wrote:

Hawkflyer wrote:

You seem to demand that all Officers be absolutely perfect... What you are seeking does not exist in ANY field of endeavor.

... the vast majority try to perform their duties honestly and in the best interests of the community.

I can't help but notice that in almost every one of your posts you seem to feel compelled to include what by my reading is a targeted personal attack concerning the ethics or truthfulness of LEO229.

It would be my hope that you could find it in yourself to converse on the range of subjects here in a more civil and less accusatory tone.

Well said.... Hawk

I thought so too.

 

[swatpro911]

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In the state of VA can I carry a semi auto rifle like AR-15 in my car or have it on me hung over my shoulder? How about for armed security personnel do it will they get in trouble by the police?

 

[swatpro911]

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cop car crash along Lee HWY

 

[TEX1N]

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LEO 229 wrote:

This is a web page everyonemay be interested in book marking. The state police identify that OC is OK in Virginia. I have pasted a small portion.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_Transporting.shtm

Virginia does not require firearm registration nor is it necessary to obtain a permit before carrying a firearm or other such weapon openly about the person except where prohibited by statute. Pursuant to §18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia, resident concealed handgun permits are issued by the circuit court of the jurisdiction in which the applicant resides, and nonresident concealed handgun permits are issued by the Virginia State Police.

A member of Tony's 7 tried to give the Manassas police a printout of that very webpage, of which they refused.