arrested for open carry in police station

[Michigander]

A question for you, sir; if a police department has been warned that armed individuals are approaching with the intention of confronting the police, how many IQ points must one have to assume that such a visit must be peaceful in nature?
I mean, it's not as though someone might lie about their intentions, is it?

After more than 100 interactions with police investigating them, a huge number of which are on their LEIN files which THE COPS SAW AT THE STOP, none of which involved them opening fire, do you really think there is a justification to deploy deadly force tools against them for exercising their rights as they always do in a circumstance where they knew they were coming and why? If the cops are that incapable of using good judgement about when to deploy firearms, they should find different jobs with a lot less responsibility.

Perhaps if they had showed up by surprise, and James had been wearing his mask, the cops drawing guns on them would have potentially been justified. As is, no ******* way.

 

[DrMark]

And there was no negotiating with those pigs.

Who are the "pigs" in your scenario?

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

After more than 100 interactions with police investigating them, a huge number of which are on their LEIN files which THE COPS SAW AT THE STOP,

Are you saying that the officer glancing into the car means that the officers were aware of the contents of some files, or was Officer Friendly watching videos they had?

none of which involved them opening fire, do you really think there is a justification to deploy deadly force tools against them for exercising their rights as they always do in a circumstance where they knew they were coming and why? If the cops are that incapable of using good judgment about when to deploy firearms, they should find different jobs with a lot less responsibility.

The officers didn't open fire in this instance either, or at least that doesn't seem to show up on the audio.
And just because someone says "Hey, we're coming in to make a complaint because we were illegally stopped. Oh, and we'll be well armed m'kay?" doesn't mean they may not be ...y'know... lying about their intentions.

Perhaps if they had showed up by surprise, and James had been wearing his mask, the cops drawing guns on them would have potentially been justified. As is, no ******* way.

Wait, James wasn't wearing his mask? The mask he's clearly shown wearing in the first two seconds of the video showing them entering the police station, that mask?

Go on, pull the other one.


Got a hint you may wanna pass on to Jimmy and Brandon; if you walk like a duck, quack like a duck, and make every effort to make people believe you're a duck, don't be surprised when people treat you like a duck.

 

[Michigander]

Who are the "pigs" in your scenario?

Any badged thug who unjustly draws on my friends I will eagerly define as a pig.

 

[Michigander]

Apparently googling is as difficult as paying attention to the meaning and context of what I posted. So here you go. http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-3493_72291---,00.html

LEIN is something they are so secretive about that they won't even show you your own file. And if I remember right, they have like 38 pages of info on everyone. I highly suspect that they keep it so secretive for the same reason the feds kept the NSA's misdeeds so secretive- they know people would be furious if they knew how much information is available to cops just by putting in a name, address, phone number, license plate, or probably other info. Collecting signatures for a ballot measure to make it FOIA-able would be a really good idea.

If you are like me and many others here, and someone who has been detained for OC in Michigan many times, you can later see in traffic stops where they pull you over and the cop gets pissy, then runs your name through LEIN, and comes back to the car with a very changed tone out of knowing you'll make way, way more trouble than you're worth with FOIA's and complaints and such if he tickets or otherwise harasses you unjustifiably. The very idea that they'd have been caught off guard by their stunt is preposterous.

 

[solus]

first Michiganer, not even goin' to give you the courtsey to quote your last couple posts because they are so incredibly stupid...police baiting may be legal but so moronic of a death wish i just can't belive you are relaying how incredibly stupid these blokes truly are.

the good judgement was shown by the DPD or your silly butt would be attending funerals.

as for your statment about non-violence, non-aggression you might just kinda look at my statement again and turn to al's ethernet system and seek out the true perception of what you believe the fancy buzz word means you have hung your hat on...(hint...voluntarist.com, purpose statement might be an excellent place to start.)

ipse

 

[solus]

Any badged thug who unjustly draws on my friends I will eagerly define as a pig.

just gotta love the rumpled gang mentality...

ipse

 

[solus]

snipp...

And if I remember right, they have like 38 pages of info on everyone.

snippp...

if, is quite a quantitative term, but to follow it up with 'have like' that cinched it for me!

ipse

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

An oddly specific number to be thrown around regarding the number of pages (38) in some super secret squirrel file that no one not in the employ of a criminal justice agency or those agencies statutorily granted authorization is supposed to have access to. Maybe someone should tell them they need to up their IT security level?

1) I'm sure you are aware that there actually IS a Internet Criminal History Access Tool (ICHAT) maintained by the Michigan State Patrol that is accessible for a modest fee. All felonies and serious misdemeanors that are punishable by over 93 days are required to be reported to the state repository by law enforcement agencies, prosecutors, and courts in all 83 Michigan counties.

I'd be inclined to wonder what information one might believe is available in LEIN that one wouldn't already be aware of?

2) It's quite likely that you are also aware that the reason access to LEIN is restricted to criminal justice agencies or those agencies statutorily granted authorization because of privacy issues (addresses, social security numbers, etc.) It also protects the addresses of children and spouses from those subject to a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) because of domestic violence.

I'm sure you don't mind the state actually safeguarding information that could be used to steal the identity of or make a citizen the target of a criminal act.

Oh, and what agencies are granted LEIN access, and what they may or may not access is readily available - http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/LeinPolicyManual_367536_7.pdf

Don't feel too bad about not having access to it; the very people who use LEIN are prohibited from accessing their own records per MCL 28-214. Section (3)

 

[Michigander]

first Michiganer, not even goin' to give you the courtsey to quote your last couple posts because they are so incredibly stupid...police baiting may be legal but so moronic of a death wish i just can't belive you are relaying how incredibly stupid these blokes truly are.

the good judgement was shown by the DPD or your silly butt would be attending funerals.

All I see is talk based on emotion. You have now joined the many many thousands of people **** talking us. You cannot imagine how much I don't care.

 

[Michigander]

I'm sure you don't mind the state actually safeguarding information that could be used to steal the identity of or make a citizen the target of a criminal act.

I don't actually believe state's are justified to exist. But since they do, sure, that's fine. The problem I meant to bring up, and perhaps didn't adequately explain, is that I find it inexcusable that people can't FOIA their own files.

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

I don't actually believe state's are justified to exist. But since they do, sure, that's fine. The problem I meant to bring up, and perhaps didn't adequately explain, is that I find it inexcusable that people can't FOIA their own files.

Well considering that it's a violation of the Michigan code, even for those authorized to access LEIN, I can't find much sympathy. As noted, any criminal history is available for a modest fee.

1) What information is it going to reveal that you don't already know?
2) You're aware that information is regularly purged from LEIN files, right? Anywhere from 48 hours for a felony record that is entered before the issuance of a warrant by a court to 2 years (plus remainder of any calendar year) for a recovered gun record. The only non-expiring record is that for a missing person which is retained indefinitely.

 

[solus]

All I see is talk based on emotion. You have now joined the many many thousands of people **** talking us. You cannot imagine how much I don't care.

emotionally based talk, my goodness, please read the tenor and tone of your post where you are talking about your buddies' activities, how you actively participated in their antics, and the overwhelming envy dripping from your post you were not there actively participating or at least revelling first hand in this latest cop bait escapade ~ to include almost getting shot!

ah, yes, i see your talk is based on nothing but emotionally generated bs... "if" or "have like" or "many many thousands" tho i must profess not having a clue what "people **** talking us" is referring to?

you must care as your mythical martyrdom sword hasn't made its point as of yet!

ipse

 

[FreeInAZ]

I find it interesting that on a forum dedicated to open carry, a practice still thought by many to be "in your face" and without any common sense or validity for those doing it regardless of its legality, here we are with the majority of members here spewing the same bunk that was & is still used against us.

I don't care how you exercise your legal rights. They're yours and if I disparage you for doing so, then shame on me! For those saying they should have been shot on sight, may I remind you there are still some butt clowns that say they will shoot any open carrier they see on sight because they "feel" threatened by someone carrying openly.

I suggest you listen to this interview with Mr. Baker, he certainly doesn't sound like a raving lunatic to me.

Carry on ...

http://www.atoddsshow.com/

 

[Tacitus42]

Solus when you have beefs with many . Maybe it is you.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[solus]

Solus when you have beefs with many . Maybe it is you.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

alas, i am sorry but your personal attacks are noteworthy but you failed to acknowledge any semblance of response to any of the discourse, let's see...quote: blah blah blah unquote...now that was very helpful dialogue you have provided to a thread...

perhaps, just perhaps, if i might reiterate something:

Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act. Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

that stated...please enjoy the week's continuing rain...btw, some may be closer than you presume.

ipse

 

[solus]

His lusername and 'closing' ipse, Solus ipse is Latin for Alone himself and he embraces and adheres to Solipsism the belief that there is no reality and nothing matters but himself - ipse.

quantum consciousness...

ipse

 

[2OLD2W8]

SNIP:

I don't care how you exercise your legal rights. They're yours and if I disparage you for doing so, then shame on me!

Kudos to you! Tis wonderful to know someone else truly gets it!

Individual Rights, a very important fact albeit, lost on the vast majority of our deficient countrymen!

 

[solus]

SNIP:

Kudos to you! Tis wonderful to know someone else truly gets it!

Individual Rights, a very important fact albeit, lost on the vast majority of our deficient countrymen!

legal right and individual right are two very different concepts so please do not obfuscate this issue by mixing apples and Kumquats.

'legal rights', as defined by black's, quote: the term given to a right or privilege that if challenged is supported in court. unquote.
not to be confused with the conversation also going on in this thread where folk are also discussing 'clear legal right' quote: a right that is based on a matter of the law that has been determined by totally accepted facts.

my commentary has been, the citizens time to adjudicate grievances from the citizen's perception, real or perceived, of mishandling of prior interaction(s) w/the nice LEs out in the street is through judicial oversight.
1. the individuals dressed in ski masks - one completely covering their face & the other just had their eyes showing; body armor; and having long gun and handgun readily at hand were not cited after their two encounters w/the nice beat cop(s) and Sgt they encountered ~ correct?
2. they individuals, as described above went to the DPD's headquarter's to complain about their treatment by the field LEs ~ correct?
3. we have absolutely no idea, except their provided commentary, what was said to the field LEs as they left each of the encounter(s), harsh, bravado, or threatening - real or perceived words, exchanged ~ correct?
4. we have established wearing of body armor by MI citizens is against established statute ~ correct? (I wasn't at nor observed the previous contact with the field LEs as to why it was not discussed or cited)
5. we have audio establishing these individuals, dressed as described in #1 failed, repeatedly to obey the 'lawful' orders of the nice LEs inside the DPD ~ correct?

these individual's alleged violation of their 'legal rights' as well as the validity of the citations they received due to their own actions, can and only be, as stated in the definition upheld by the judicial system. once that status has been decided, then and only then can we state these unique individuals have the 'clear legal right' to have done what they did!

at the moment, strictly due to their own volition and through their actions, they lost their firearms & i presume their body armor, and now must run the judicial gambit using someone's (read society's) hard earned money!!

so back to you 20OLD2W8, where do you believe their individual rights, as expressed in the constitution ~ which is where your term is gleaned, were violated as i am quite sure the nice LEs followed the established law to assure their 'rights' were upheld!

ipse

 

[OC for ME]

Legal rights are granted by the state, and as such, can be revoked on a whim. If it is not a violation of the laws of MI to enter a unsecured area of a cop shop armed then the cops acted contradictory to state law...and natural law.