Lawdog
New member
Please everyone, don't take this the wrong way.
I am a retired peace officer. I have dealt with my share of open Carry citizens in the past, and every time I
have encountered OC citizen I have asked the same question, but never gotten what I thought was a straightforward answer. My question is simple, Why open Carry? I know it is your right, that I get, but besides you wanting to exercise your right, why?
Does carrying an unloaded firearm in a holster somehow make you feel safer, because it shouldn't. I know that you are not looking for a confrontation, but honestly speaking, just advertising that you have a gun is an invitation for someone to either take you on, or make you do something that you possibly should not. Don't get me wrong, I am all for citizens being able to legally carry a loaded and concealed firearm. I think the hole CCW process in most departments is a joke, because they choose not to issue concealed weapons permits to citizens who have valid reasons for having them.
Believe me I have looked at this issue from both sides, both as being a officer who would receive calls regarding people who were legally OC, and from the stand point of the people who were OC and could not or would not get a CCW permit. Its a crying shame that we as americans have to worry about protecting ourselves with deadly force, but that is the world we live it. How are OC going to defend them selves by bringing a pretty paper weight to a gun fight?
It just seems to me that with all the organization that this movement has, and with all it's members that you could not or would not band together to get some of the laws of the states that do not have a rational concealed weapons permitting changed. I understand that as Police officers we can not be everywhere, and sometimes we have to depend upon the citizens to protect and defend themselves, But honestly how are you going to protect yourselves or your loved ones with an unloaded firearm?
Do you think that the mere sight of a gun is going to have a criminal think twice or quake in their shoes? I can only speak from my experience, but I am certain that criminals don't care if you have a gun and order them to stop. As a mater of fact in the last couple of years prior to retiring, I found that some criminals are getting hip to the open carry movement. In the city I worked for, one OC citizen was actually robbed at gunpoint by a suspect who's sole intent was to steal his firearm. After the suspects arrest, he made a comment to the effect that he had seen the OC stuff on T.V. and felt that if he carried his loaded firearm, he could certainly steal more firearms from people who carried them unloaded. It made sense to me! What is to prevent him or other criminals like him from going to an OC gathering, befriending a OC citizen who's gun he likes or wants, and actually using his loaded firearm to take your unloaded firearm. True most bad guys like to take the easy way, and shooting someone for a gun is the hard way, but it could happen. I will never know if in the one case that I spoke of, if the OC citizen had resisted what the suspect would have done, but it stands to reason that he did not bring a loaded firearm to the robbery just to look tough.
I hated getting calls of citizens who were OC and then have to do a 12031(e) check just to determine that they were in fact OC citizens and not some suspect out there waiting for the opportunity to commit a crime. What does an unloaded and open carried firearm tell me, well for right now it tells me barring any other information, that you are a citizen that is legally carrying a firearm. But remember you pay all officers to be suspicious. In the purest of forms OC citizens are not criminals, but all it takes is some smart criminals and then we have a problem. I can show you video after video of criminals either in jail or in prison going over laws and loopholes, techniques and tactics to use the law to their advantage and to lie, cheat, steal and murder their way to where they want to be. No not all criminals are smart, but I hate to say it, if they stay in their business of being criminals long enough, a majority of them learn how to work the system.
The other problem that I had with quite a few but not all OC is their attitude towards LEO's. Weather it is not wanting to submit to a 12031(e) check, or the barbs, jabs, and pokes about "rights" and how as LEO's we violated their rights.... Bottom line I hope OC citizens are carrying not just for show. What I mean by this is if you are going to carry a firearm, weather it be loaded or unloaded, you better have the intent and skill to use it if your life depends on it. Tying up Police resources by debating weather or not LEO's have the right to conduct 12031(e) checks, and field interviews (not detentions!) is only going against what I hope OC citizens stand for, protection of life and liberty.
I guess I will get off my soap box by concluding by saying as OC citizens, you should organize, lobby, protest, hell do what ever it legally takes to get your rights expanded so you can carry concealed or for that mater openly loaded. Let me know what you think. I might not have the right answer, but I can at least i admit that while I might not have the right answer, I am sure it is not the only answer to deal with this issue so that your rights are protected, and LEO's can breath just a little easier. Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing from you. - Lawdog
I am a retired peace officer. I have dealt with my share of open Carry citizens in the past, and every time I
have encountered OC citizen I have asked the same question, but never gotten what I thought was a straightforward answer. My question is simple, Why open Carry? I know it is your right, that I get, but besides you wanting to exercise your right, why?
Does carrying an unloaded firearm in a holster somehow make you feel safer, because it shouldn't. I know that you are not looking for a confrontation, but honestly speaking, just advertising that you have a gun is an invitation for someone to either take you on, or make you do something that you possibly should not. Don't get me wrong, I am all for citizens being able to legally carry a loaded and concealed firearm. I think the hole CCW process in most departments is a joke, because they choose not to issue concealed weapons permits to citizens who have valid reasons for having them.
Believe me I have looked at this issue from both sides, both as being a officer who would receive calls regarding people who were legally OC, and from the stand point of the people who were OC and could not or would not get a CCW permit. Its a crying shame that we as americans have to worry about protecting ourselves with deadly force, but that is the world we live it. How are OC going to defend them selves by bringing a pretty paper weight to a gun fight?
It just seems to me that with all the organization that this movement has, and with all it's members that you could not or would not band together to get some of the laws of the states that do not have a rational concealed weapons permitting changed. I understand that as Police officers we can not be everywhere, and sometimes we have to depend upon the citizens to protect and defend themselves, But honestly how are you going to protect yourselves or your loved ones with an unloaded firearm?
Do you think that the mere sight of a gun is going to have a criminal think twice or quake in their shoes? I can only speak from my experience, but I am certain that criminals don't care if you have a gun and order them to stop. As a mater of fact in the last couple of years prior to retiring, I found that some criminals are getting hip to the open carry movement. In the city I worked for, one OC citizen was actually robbed at gunpoint by a suspect who's sole intent was to steal his firearm. After the suspects arrest, he made a comment to the effect that he had seen the OC stuff on T.V. and felt that if he carried his loaded firearm, he could certainly steal more firearms from people who carried them unloaded. It made sense to me! What is to prevent him or other criminals like him from going to an OC gathering, befriending a OC citizen who's gun he likes or wants, and actually using his loaded firearm to take your unloaded firearm. True most bad guys like to take the easy way, and shooting someone for a gun is the hard way, but it could happen. I will never know if in the one case that I spoke of, if the OC citizen had resisted what the suspect would have done, but it stands to reason that he did not bring a loaded firearm to the robbery just to look tough.
I hated getting calls of citizens who were OC and then have to do a 12031(e) check just to determine that they were in fact OC citizens and not some suspect out there waiting for the opportunity to commit a crime. What does an unloaded and open carried firearm tell me, well for right now it tells me barring any other information, that you are a citizen that is legally carrying a firearm. But remember you pay all officers to be suspicious. In the purest of forms OC citizens are not criminals, but all it takes is some smart criminals and then we have a problem. I can show you video after video of criminals either in jail or in prison going over laws and loopholes, techniques and tactics to use the law to their advantage and to lie, cheat, steal and murder their way to where they want to be. No not all criminals are smart, but I hate to say it, if they stay in their business of being criminals long enough, a majority of them learn how to work the system.
The other problem that I had with quite a few but not all OC is their attitude towards LEO's. Weather it is not wanting to submit to a 12031(e) check, or the barbs, jabs, and pokes about "rights" and how as LEO's we violated their rights.... Bottom line I hope OC citizens are carrying not just for show. What I mean by this is if you are going to carry a firearm, weather it be loaded or unloaded, you better have the intent and skill to use it if your life depends on it. Tying up Police resources by debating weather or not LEO's have the right to conduct 12031(e) checks, and field interviews (not detentions!) is only going against what I hope OC citizens stand for, protection of life and liberty.
I guess I will get off my soap box by concluding by saying as OC citizens, you should organize, lobby, protest, hell do what ever it legally takes to get your rights expanded so you can carry concealed or for that mater openly loaded. Let me know what you think. I might not have the right answer, but I can at least i admit that while I might not have the right answer, I am sure it is not the only answer to deal with this issue so that your rights are protected, and LEO's can breath just a little easier. Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing from you. - Lawdog