Virginia State Police "instant" background check delays

[DrMark]

grass always looks greener on the otherside of the fence.

Yeah, we in VA are inexperienced with the warts that the the NICS system may have.

But I don't think the NICS system is broken like the VA system is.

The FFL I talked to this morning said he spoke on Friday with the folks doing the check, and that they were still processing checks from 3-4 days prior. That's unsat.

 

[Thundar]

The center has 72 "business" hours (Monday thru Friday) to give a gun dealer an answer, either YES or NO. If no answer is given, the gun dealer can release the firearm to you. But it doesn't end there. If a person has purchased a firearm illegally, a trooper will still be hunting them down like a rabid dog no matter what the gun dealer does when not receiving an answer from the call center.

Some dealers won't honor the 72 hour clause though. They hold the firearm until they get a YES answer.

What you say is correct according to a decree fro the the Commandant of the Virginia State Police. Without any authority granted to him by the Commonwealth he has declared in the Virginia Dealers Handbook that only Monday to Friday are business days in the Commonwealth even though the unit doing the background checks is open 364 days a year and the DMV, is open on Saturdays.

 

[Mayhem]

I was at a gun show in Chantilly the other weekend and I ran into a state trooper. I asked him why the gun checks were taking so long to complete and he told me they are short staffed and have a large back log.

I also mentioned the 72 hours as noted previously and he looked at me like I was speaking Chinese. He did not know anything about it and said it does not exist.

Can anyone post something to prove this to be true?

 

[Repeater]

I was at a gun show in Chantilly the other weekend and I ran into a state trooper. I asked him why the gun checks were taking so long to complete and he told me they are short staffed and have a large back log.

I also mentioned the 72 hours as noted previously and he looked at me like I was speaking Chinese. He did not know anything about it and said it does not exist.

Can anyone post something to prove this to be true?

Yes, it exists. The problem is there are no consequences if the VSP folks disobey the law.

What does not exist are penalties for government workers who break the law.

The Mandarin is here:

§ 18.2-308.2:2 B2. The State Police shall provide its response to the requesting dealer during the dealer's request, or by return call without delay. ...

In case of electronic failure or other circumstances beyond the control of the State Police, the dealer shall be advised immediately of the reason for such delay and be given an estimate of the length of such delay. After such notification, the State Police shall, as soon as possible but in no event later than the end of the dealer's next business day, inform the requesting dealer if its records indicate the buyer or transferee is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm by state or federal law. A dealer who fulfills the requirements of subdivision 1 of this subsection and is told by the State Police that a response will not be available by the end of the dealer's next business day may immediately complete the sale or transfer and shall not be deemed in violation of this section with respect to such sale or transfer.

 

[user]

It occurs to me that the U.S. Constitution prohibits any state from taking any action having the effect of "impairing the obligation of contracts".

Also, that if the VSP are not up to the task of providing instant background checks, we can simply emliminate that requirement and have dealers correspond go through the feds directly. Virginia is not required to have a state agency act as the intermediary. They do just fine in W.Va. without that. I've often thought that their inability to enforce the traffic law would seem to suggest that they don't have the capacity to handle more important matters. Cars don't kill people, negligent drivers kill people, and in greater numbers than all firearm-related violence, including war, combined. And that's mainly because the police are unable to manage traffic law enforcement.

 

[DrMark]

I just filled out paperwork to buy a AR lower this morning. Delayed. (funny, dealers always then ask about security clearances; many believe there's a link)

Day 1

For a state with a reported "pro-gun" climate, the state government has done a pretty good job of enacting a multi-day waiting period for many purchasers.

I suspect that next year, ditching VA's system for the one that works (NICS) will be much higher on my "bills to push" list.

Day 2

 

[DrMark]

...if the VSP are not up to the task of providing instant background checks, we can simply emliminate that requirement and have dealers correspond go through the feds directly. Virginia is not required to have a state agency act as the intermediary. They do just fine in W.Va. without that.

Makes sense to me.

In my opinion, a barrier lies in the fact that the state gets money from the process, and doesn't want to give that up. I believe that's why they were so quick to kill the bills to take the VSP out of the loop despite their failure to get the job done.

 

[Mayhem]

Yes, it exists. The problem is there are no consequences if the VSP folks disobey the law.

What does not exist are penalties for government workers who break the law.

The Mandarin is here:

§ 18.2-308.2:2 B2. The State Police shall provide its response to the requesting dealer during the dealer's request, or by return call without delay. ...

In case of electronic failure or other circumstances beyond the control of the State Police,

the dealer shall be advised immediately of the reason for such delay and be given an estimate of the length of such delay.

After such notification, the State Police shall, as soon as possible but in no event later than the end of the dealer's next business day, inform the requesting dealer if its records indicate the buyer or transferee is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm by state or federal law.

A dealer who fulfills the requirements of subdivision 1 of this subsection and is told by the State Police that a response will not be available by the end of the dealer's next business day may immediately complete the sale or transfer and shall not be deemed in violation of this section with respect to such sale or transfer.

Thank you.

I see that the state police SHALL report the delay to the seller.

But I also read that the seller must have been informed of the delay before they can just complete the sale without knowing the status. So the dealer cannot just do it unless they are told of a delay first. And the state would be in violation of this section if they fail to call.

Question: At what point does the clock start ticking and how long is too long before the state must advise there will be a delay? I mean, If the state is getting hammered by a gun show sale and they are knocking them out as quickly as possible. They have not even reached all of the applications at the bottom of the stack yet so there is technically no delay in getting an answer since they are not working on it yet.

It sounds like if there was a problem with the computer system and they could not process any applications that this would likely apply.

Thoughts?

 

[user]

There is no 72-hour requirement. The statute says three business days. The date on which the purchase is attempted is day zero. Day one is the next business day. And the real issue here is whether the dealer will have committed a crime by selling the gun without a proper response from the VSP. If he sells the gun after the three days are up, with or without a response, then he's not committing a crime unless he has reason to know that the purchaser is ineligible. None of this has anything to do with whether the purchaser is guilty of any crime.

 

[speed41ae]

This needs to either be fixed by the State Police or taken away from them. If they cannot do their job, then they should not get our business and money.

 

[Thundar]

There is no 72-hour requirement. The statute says three business days. The date on which the purchase is attempted is day zero. Day one is the next business day. And the real issue here is whether the dealer will have committed a crime by selling the gun without a proper response from the VSP. If he sells the gun after the three days are up, with or without a response, then he's not committing a crime unless he has reason to know that the purchaser is ineligible. None of this has anything to do with whether the purchaser is guilty of any crime.

Any idea how we legally define business days in the Commonwealth User?

 

[speed41ae]

I just did my paperwork for a PTR-32. Lets see how long this takes.

Are they purposely holding up the process to get a bigger fee approved so they can fix it?

 

[GreatDaneMan]

Just bought from Superior. My second gun total from a dealer, previous one was last Aug. Background check took 5 minutes. My father, who's last pistol purchase on the books was 20 years ago, his did not go through tonight. We shall we how long his takes... The guy at the counter said what is normally a day or two is now 4 or more days.

Every gun shop today, MID day was so packed you could hardly walk. Crates of ammo walking out the door, shelves being emptied.. I was shocked since it is during the week, during mid day.

 

[Sheriff]

Every gun shop today, MID day was so packed you could hardly walk. Crates of ammo walking out the door, shelves being emptied.. I was shocked since it is during the week, during mid day.

People are stocking up for the election in November. If Obama loses re-election you will see violence and riots that have never been seen before in this country.

 

[Mayhem]

I was thinking people were getting ready for the Zombie Apocalypse or the possibility of Obama being re-elected and banning guns during his final term in office.

 

[stickslinger]

Never had any issues with purchases

So far, "knock on wood", I've never had any delays with with either a handgun or rifle purchase. Latest was a rifle at the Dulles show. Approved in 2-3 minutes. The wait time was getting all the paperwork in order before and after the sale as the in-out box queue was stuffed for the seller at the time.

 

[DrMark]

Got a call today (Friday) from my FFL, stating that my background check from this past Saturday had cleared. I'll pick up the item (just a stripped AR lower) tomorrow.

Almost one week.

Unsat.

The guys from states with official waiting periods are laughing at us Virginians.

 

[stickslinger]

Got a call today (Friday) from my FFL, stating that my background check from this past Saturday had cleared. I'll pick up the item (just a stripped AR lower) tomorrow.

Almost one week.

Unsat.

The guys from states with official waiting periods are laughing at us Virginians.

From what I've seen from most of the threads here it's starting to look like the norm here as an official wait period is about a week, give or take. Is anyone keeping stats on how long the average wait time is these days? Is that something that could be tracked another way perhaps?

 

[zoom6zoom]

the state gets money from the process, and doesn't want to give that up.

Question is, would it be a net revenue gain for the state if they didn't have to fund running the operation and just used the national system?

 

[speed41ae]

I am still waiting. If my company treated customers this way, they would be out of business.

Edit - I was finally approved today. That makes 3 days for me.